Saviem's fan club (Part 1)

saviem · 6 January 2016 21:57

pete smith:
Hi Fergie, The photo’s of the heavy weights you have put on the Berliet T6 (6th pic) looks like a Pacific that Wynns used

Evening all,

Boy, oh boy, Im far too slow to keep up with you boys, but the Berliet Military Range is worth a few words.( Fergies excellent pictures of January fifth refer).

Post WW2 the bulk of the French Military vehicles were ex USA. Then on the lightweights came the (Marmon), Simca SUBs with Ford V8 petrol power, but the real heavies were all Diamond T , or Pacific manufacture.

But France wanted her own lorries! The Berliet T 6 was one of the first(Fergies picture 6)…but then in 1964 with Paul Berliet investing “squillions” of his Bankers cash in a remote site away from Venissieux, at Bourg en Bresse, (120 hectares, with an initial production area of 62000 sq metres), specifically for the production of military models, dumpers, fire appliances, and sundry “odd balls”…came the new ranges, specifically for the requirements of the military, Army, and Air Force.

Fergies picture 8 shows one of Berliets most powerful, yet singularly most unsuccessful models the 1962 , T12. Powered by a multi fuel V12 of 29.556 litres, 140mmx160mm (in effect two TL15 engines in 90 degree V form), producing a nominal 550 hp @1800 rpm, driving through a Clark C16.420 4 speed auto box with Clark Torque Converter, (type C1009.1…I think)! Both bogies were triple reduction Type 400.12, with 1600x20 tyre equipment. Nominal gtw was 103 tonnes, (the load proposed for testing being a US built 99 tonne M60), but for actual use being the lighter AMX30.

Perez et Raimond, the licence holder for the Willeme TG range also submitted for evaluation an 8x8 TG250 rigid chassis, prepared by Creusot Loire with a roll off/ roll on self loading body, for the AMX30 tank…a 100 tonne plus all terrain 8x8 rigid!..(and I believe this lorry still exists).

The T12 was evaluated at Valbonne, and also on the road, (despite its bulk, the tractor was 8.55 metres long, and 3.25 meteres wide, with a road speed of 57 kph, and a laden gradeability of 1in 3, (stop / start)! Fuel capacity was two 600 litre fuel tanks…and she needed them! …fuel consumption was in the region of 206 litres per 100 kms!

But sanity reigned with the French military…and in 1965, when the AMX30 came into service, they had started to take delivery of over 100 TBO 6x4 tractors, as Fergies picture 10. Powered by the turbo, 14.778 litre MS640A @320 hp, with a manual 10 speed FBO 41 10 speed box, and running on either 1400x20, (Air Force models for carrying plant), or 1600x20s for the 90 tonne rated Army Tank Transporters.The Air Force were still running theirs in the early 2000s, until their replacement by Renault R 390 6x4s. The TBOs, and their Coder, twin axle 50 tonne nominal rated trailers replaced the Pacific M620s with their 18 litre Hall and Scott petrol engines and 45/50 tonne Rogers trailers…most of which ended up in the hands of French heavy haulage contractors, who rapidly replaced the Hall and Scotts with either ■■■■■■■■ or Berliet power…and continued to use them well into the 90s, some still with their armoured bodywork, and all with their chain drive!!

Fergies 10th picture shows a unique vehicle, Frances Scammell Pioneer! The T6 Berliet, with its licence built 7.4/ 9 tonne lift Austin Western lifting gear, front mounted 5 tonne winch, and rear mounted 8 tonne one. Nominally rated as a 28 tonne 6x6 rigid, with its cab produced by both Lyon based Delhorme, and Argenteuil Carrier, (as its predecessor the T6). Powered by the MK 640 multifuel engine 14.778 litre, re rated at 200 hp @1800 rpm, over 700 examples were put into service by the French Army, others were sold to Belgium, and Saudi Arabia. As well as a separate version for China, as well as a Chinese version of the 6x6 30/70 tonne gtw TBO, (for China TCO)…same cab…but really a TBO underneath…I think that I wrote previously about just how confused the Berliet model line up was in the 60s and early 70s!..believe me, it really was!

As a matter of interest, were you aware that the Alvis Stalwart 6x6 was manufactured by Berliet as well? Called the Aurochs, aftera million year old creature from central Europe…a good way for Alvis to sell into Francophile markets in Africa…as well as the French Army!

There was a version fitted with the Berliet V800 6 litre V8 diesel…but then for some inexplicable reason when Leyland acquired Alvis…they broke the deal…now that would take me ages to write about, and would Im sure make many with an interest in Leylands demise very, very angry indeed!

But my Bollinger is calling me,…and I fear that I could become very boring about the various Fench military vehicles should I continue…my apologies,

Cheerio for now.

harry_gill · 6 January 2016 23:30

[Hiya,
Monsieur Saviem boring?? never,
enlightening always.
thanks harry, long retired.

retired_old_fart · 7 January 2016 01:33

It continually baffles me how Saviem knows all this stuff. Never mind how he can remember it!
Just to expand on that model name he mentions- I believe that the prehistoric “Aurochs”, or “Aurox” if you were taught on this side of La Manche, was the predecessor of the more modern ox, then latterly, the beast that we now know as the cow.
Yet another bit of useless info that I picked up somewhere in the last 70 years.

rigsby · 7 January 2016 11:01

i wouldn’t be surprised if there were aurox roaming the forest of dean .

sammyopisite · 7 January 2016 17:13

This is another picture of the Berliet heavy haulage 6x6 and I have reposted "Fergie,s " picture to compare them

cheers Johnnie

retired_old_fart · 7 January 2016 19:14

rigsby:
i wouldn’t be surprised if there were aurox roaming the forest of dean .

Don’t start lurpak and leylandlover off again, rigsby, I only just managed to outrun the flock of heavily-armed sheep that were sent after me up the M5!

jsutherland · 7 January 2016 22:13

Saviem and boring are not compatible. Please continue with your facts.
Johnny

saviem · 7 January 2016 22:59

Fergie47:
Some Golden oldies…

Evening all,

Well what passes for a normal day now…dug out some overflowing ditches…moved a selection of B&Q kitchen cabinets from one “to be developed” Barn to another, (by gum those 925 corner units are heavy)…well they are to me any way!..tried to reclaim some old convector heaters…sadly I lost the battle…and discovered just how “lively” a 240 volt shock really is…quite livened me up I can tell you!..enjoyed the dubious pleasure of meeting some local Council officials…white safety helmets in case that the Pigeons have constipation…Yellow Hi Viz…in case any of ROF “Aurox`s”, (I tried the name out on them…greeted by blank stares…but they are Local Government “Front Line Officers” are they not), were loose on my water meadows, and had migrated North from The Forest of Dean!..That was a real “lead balloon meeting”…how can you explain to simpletons that if you deepen one part of a river, even more water thunders down to the next shallow part…and guess what…YES…you all knew the answer…it floods everywhere…(in this case over all the Executive Housing that they allowed to be built on a flood plane…B Plonkers one and all…and they still do not understand!!!..I buggered off in my Suzuki, …(you may laugh, but some of their posh cars are still parked, (sunk), where I left them…Oh how I hate with a passion the plonkers we get in local Government…

Anyway, thanks for the kind comments, really my mind is like a Railway Marshalling Yard…lots of sidings…and the pictures "trigger my thoughts and memories…you are free to check them out, (but Im sure that they are accurate)…when I was younger they had to be, and regarding France, and her Hauliers, and people it was/is my passion, and it still burns as bright!

Another of Fergies pictures of 05.01.16. the Bussing LS13F Commodore, of Briqueterie Ayrault from 1962, now what a company, and what a fleet, quite something! Based in Bonneuil - sur - Marne, and feeding the rapid re-birth of Paris, and its many construction sites. The pictured lorry, with its single axle German built Eylert, from Wuppertal, trailer @32 tonnes, was typical of this magnificent fleet. They had started with Benard, but needed more power, that was more important than economy…so they began to buy from Georges Garabidien,(whose business , because of his absolute aggression in the market became the leader in the Ille de France…(he was, and I can comment having personal experience, just as aggressive as the Richardson Twins, (Roy, nd Don), were in the midlands of the UK…he would chase down any deal, irrespective of the potential…and turn it around!

To secure the large fleet, both tractor and trailer of a company such as Briqueterie Ayrault, and gain the confidence of their Chairman René Ayrault was a major achievement…but to develop such a fleet into a monopoly of Bussing, (including that rare, of rare tractor the Unterflur BS19.210 F 4x2 with its totally air suspended front and rear axles from 1967, and not just one but twelve examples…the largest fleet ever of these dream machines, (for the driver…smooth, easy, and quiet…and well up to 35 tonnes)… but the total fleet was well in excess of 100 units alone…

Rene Ayrault ran a fabulous operation and fleet, not only Bussing, they had started with the real king…Bernard…but needed more power than Gardner could provide so Bussing arrived via Garabiden, and I really should write about this man and his operation…what they achieved as one little company was unbelievable…an Armenian by birth, and a Dealer by nature …

He imported the wonderful trailers of Eylert, from Wuppertal, easy riding, on full air, (back in the early 60s) tandems on 1200x24s, Eylert had begun as Coach Builders in Wuppertal- Sonnbron back in the early 1900s…their 1960s trailers were still smart, and in use in the 70s and early 80s! But Rene Ayrault, had patented a remarkable refactory design for rapid construction back in the 50s. A long section, (similar to our “Catnic” Lintol), that interlocked with its companion refactory sections, named “Ero”, in either composites of 13/5/4 interlocking sections that cut conventional build time by 60%…and many of the Hotels that you have enjoyed in La Belle, as well as Italy, and the Benelux were built with these sections. Strong, cheap, (both in terms of production, and build), and strong! So many were produced that René Ayrault ran the very first dedicated rail trains into Paris with his products , but his Road fleet was his champion!!

Ayrault was a big concern, his clay quarries used Berliet TBO, and GBO dumpers, as well as an army of ex WW2 GMCs re engine by Garabidiens operation with Henschell 200 hp units! Their early road fleet of Bernards were fitted with very large sleeper cabs by Carosserie Tirbois,( he insisted a comfortable bed…and a Radio for Le Chauffeur, back in 1960), handsome , and unforgettable in their bright red livery…but so were the bonneted Bussings, with their chrome plated radiator grille, model 8000, 13 litres, and 180 hp, …what monsters…oh the happy man to drive such a vehicle…and the drivers were well rewarded, very well indeed…

I f a company makes profit, (and lots of it)…reward your staff…(my sentiments totally)…Ayrault were a king of their time…(but blooming hard to deal with)!!!..but he did have a few Saviems!!!

Perhaps a small Bollinger is called for…or perhaps a larger one?

Cheerio for now.

paul_john · 8 January 2016 02:25

John (Saviem) brilliant just brilliant. Simple as that.

Regards Paul.

pete_smith · 8 January 2016 07:41

Fergie47:
Its tipping it down outside today, so got an hour on the computer before Mrs Fergie finds me something to do !!

First one today, and hasn’t this got absolute presents…

Hi Fergie,
The real one which you posted and a lego one I found on internet, Cheer’s Pete

fergie47 · 8 January 2016 09:34

pete smith:

Fergie47:
Its tipping it down outside today, so got an hour on the computer before Mrs Fergie finds me something to do !!

First one today, and hasn’t this got absolute presents…

Hi Fergie,
The real one which you posted and a lego one I found on internet, Cheer’s Pete

Nice one Pete… I got to admire some of these model makers, when the model is done with all the road grime on them, stickers and tax discs in the windows, diesel dripping down the side of the tank its a job to tell the difference with the real thing…Sadly, I don’t have the patience, and with
Mrs Ferige wielding her broom if I stop for more than an hour, I won’t be taking that hobbie up in the near future…

deckboypeggy · 8 January 2016 14:01

Brilliant posts, Saviem your nick name should be “SAVIEMPEDIA” , More knowledge than LONGMAN.
Pete I like the Michelin man on the proper truck is it Pillsbury the dough man on the model.

pete_smith · 8 January 2016 15:06

deckboypeggy:
Brilliant posts, Saviem your nick name should be “SAVIEMPEDIA” , More knowledge than LONGMAN.
Pete I like the Michelin man on the proper truck is it Pillsbury the dough man on the model.

I had not noticed that on the model DBP

buzzer · 8 January 2016 17:49

Hi Saviem and all, the chap with this Saviem was pulling a Jameson trailer out of Le Havre circa late 70’s which he did on a regular basis and was loading with me at the Manitou plant which I think was in a place called Ancenis or something similar. In those days they tended to build mostly what I called back to front tractor fork lift’s , my how they have moved with the times cheers Buzzer.

fergie47 · 9 January 2016 13:12

Couple of U-tubes for you…

First is about Paul Berliet, the second is a visit to the Berliet museum…to the right of the videos are more on Berliets and French lorries in general

youtube.com/watch?v=GdtBuqUsm4g

youtube.com/watch?v=7DL9j9Izb6k

fergie47 · 9 January 2016 13:40

They still make these to-day, there was one parked up in out local supermarket delivering steel bars for an extension they are doing…probably rarer than they use to be for sure , saw them all over the place in the '70’s / '80’s