truckyboy:
The pallets are banded as well…so i dont think its a problem if driven sensibly…what it needs is a test case in a court…but we all know the law would be on the side of vosa…as if they know any better.
As you travel the band can slip down the bottles rendering them useless.
‘Modern’ trailers have such little strength in the chassis, the twisting of the bed can shoot the pallets when coming off a dished roundabout for example.
The pallets are twice as tall as they should be to be honest, this coupled with a lack of shrink wrap (due to customer’s environmental policy ) means the loads aren’t safe.
To be honest when I saw the original tweet from NW Police I was glad, as these really are loads that need reconfiguring.
you are dealing with government plebs quoting from a rule book so if it says straps,then straps it has to be,irrespective of common sense and practicality come nowhere into the equation.
in the event of a major test case against the government that it looks like you might be winning,then apart from stalling and stalling by the crown to see if you run out of money then if it looks like your about to win,the crown will happily drop the case at the last minute so there will be no test case for others to relate to in the future.
at that point you might as well set an extra place at your dinner table because for the rest of your life,you will have tax,vat,and every type of government agency crawling up your jacksie.
if you remember years ago a bunch of international hauliers were about to win over the fining of drivers found with axle huggers at the highest level of court and were about to win when the crown dropped the case against them ending their legal aid hence the case collapsed with no verdict.
this meant they could continue fines constantly to every driver/owner who they caught with illegals on board.
truckyboy:
The pallets are banded as well…so i dont think its a problem if driven sensibly…what it needs is a test case in a court…but we all know the law would be on the side of vosa…as if they know any better.
Yep…Not casting aspersions on any on here who have come to grief with this stuff, but you hit the nail on the head with ‘‘If driven sensibly’’.
That would go a long way to a safe journey with those loads I would reckon, but on the other hand unforseen ■■■■ and bad luck happens to the best of drivers.
truckyboy:
The pallets are banded as well…so i dont think its a problem if driven sensibly…what it needs is a test case in a court…but we all know the law would be on the side of vosa…as if they know any better.
As you travel the band can slip down the bottles rendering them useless.
‘Modern’ trailers have such little strength in the chassis, the twisting of the bed can shoot the pallets when coming off a dished roundabout for example.
The pallets are twice as tall as they should be to be honest, this coupled with a lack of shrink wrap (due to customer’s environmental policy ) means the loads aren’t safe.
To be honest when I saw the original tweet from NW Police I was glad, as these really are loads that need reconfiguring.
In this thread alone we have been told about the following, amongst others:
-Load was shot when driver dropped the trailer
-Load was shot when driver when over a speed hump at 5mph
-Load was shot while driver was going out the warehouse into the yard
-Transport company sends drivers on a particular route to avoid more junctions/traffic lights/roundabouts/crap drivers to avoid loads getting shot
The above is nothing to do with XL curtains or straps. If it is to this extreme, it shows changes need to be made to either packaging, or the actual vehicle (i.e. box instead of curtains as already mentioned) - unfortunately neither of these fit in with the agenda of the companies that simply want to pile as much product onto a vehicle as physically possible. The glass company will have specified a curtainsider for the job - so who is held responsible for the shot load - although I think I already know the answer.
Strange how a bunch of drivers can come up with all these problems/solutions on a forum yet these big companies can’t (or choose not to) see the issues. Selective blindness as usual. Countless times it’s been talked about on other threads about ‘too heavy for internals, can’t ratchet it because the packaging is flimsy’ amongst other things, and until DVSA start visiting these companies and making them to package/stack things in a suitable manner (and fining those who continue not to comply - heavily) it will continue. But we all know that won’t happen - easier to just pull a few trucks every so often.
truckyboy:
The pallets are banded as well…so i dont think its a problem if driven sensibly…what it needs is a test case in a court…but we all know the law would be on the side of vosa…as if they know any better.
Yep…Not casting aspersions on any on here who have come to grief with this stuff, but you hit the nail on the head with ‘‘If driven sensibly’’.
That would go a long way to a safe journey with those loads I would reckon, but on the other hand unforseen [zb] and bad luck happens to the best of drivers.
Sorry but a lot of it is luck. There is no way to mitigate every bump and pothole because that’s often all it takes
truckyboy:
The pallets are banded as well…so i dont think its a problem if driven sensibly…what it needs is a test case in a court…but we all know the law would be on the side of vosa…as if they know any better.
Yep…Not casting aspersions on any on here who have come to grief with this stuff, but you hit the nail on the head with ‘‘If driven sensibly’’.
That would go a long way to a safe journey with those loads I would reckon, but on the other hand unforseen [zb] and bad luck happens to the best of drivers.
Sorry but a lot of it is luck. There is no way to mitigate every bump and pothole because that’s often all it takes
That’s what I said, …bad luck happens to the best of us.
elsa Lad:
I used to do 100’s of these loads out of Rockware in the 90’s and I hated them. Yes if a bottle fell out then very quickly the pallet would collapse. Putting a ratchet ■■■■■■■■ would do nothing, but the powers that be say everything got to be strapped. I got nicked at wooley services last night for stopping on the hard shoulder on the slip road for about the minute and the lovely policeman was more interested how the load was strapped and he was most disappointed when I told him they were xl and each pallet was strapped down. So the banker could only give me a £60 fine.
Like it or not, the DVSA have decided how they wants things secured and they want to end the “pull the curtains and go” culture and ■■■■■■■ about with pointless internal straps. I’m not necessarily against that, but the authorities now need to go after the consignors and put some onus on them to make sure loads leave their site secured ‘correctly’. Park outside the likes of Quinn Glass, Amazon, Coca Cola etc. & refuse onto the road any load that isn’t secured right, they will soon get on to their hauliers and sort it.
It’s the only way we will see any proper change, hassling drivers at the roadside for not doing things that they aren’t given the kit to do isn’t achieving anything.
elsa Lad:
I used to do 100’s of these loads out of Rockware in the 90’s and I hated them. Yes if a bottle fell out then very quickly the pallet would collapse. Putting a ratchet ■■■■■■■■ would do nothing, but the powers that be say everything got to be strapped. I got nicked at wooley services last night for stopping on the hard shoulder on the slip road for about the minute and the lovely policeman was more interested how the load was strapped and he was most disappointed when I told him they were xl and each pallet was strapped down. So the banker could only give me a £60 fine.
Why did you stop?
I was pulling a LST trailer and I was dying for a pee. I wasn’t sure I would have room to stop, so wrongly I stopped at the top of the slip road for a 1-2 minutes and was just starting to pull away when a not so nice young officer stopped and reported me. So I now waiting for a £60 fixed notice through the post. Then to add salt in to the wound after he gave me a 20 minute chat, I drove through the services and there was plenty room to stop.
Really nice idea but just don’t shrink wrap would do! Wrapped ones rarely go over
True, but the use of plastic wrapping is now increasingly not only disliked by the supplier (cost), but also the customer, trying to reduce their (plastic) waste footprint.
I must say, those cages look just the ticket. Lightweight, collapsible, and can be properly secured. If only we could convince Vosa/the gubermint to make companies use them, rather than get the drivers to play Russian roulette…
I’ve just got to the point where if it’s over 400kg I ratchet strap it. If that damages the load then so be it. If I get questioned on that I just tell them well I either damage the load or don’t take it or you’ll have to discuss with the supplier how it can be transported so the strapping complies with the law. So if I shatter 20 tons of glass with ratchets frankly I don’t give a ■■■■, they need pack it better for transport. Not worth having any other attitude any more when it’s you who will be the one to get fined for it.
Here’s a radical idea, that won’t happen, Maybe the RHA/FTA and dvsa along with the trade comics, could go to the likes of pokey Pola, Glass bottle makers, etc and say this is how we want it securing…
But we know the RHA/FTA won’t because that means actually helping the people who pay them, and DVSA won’t because it’s not there problem they just enforce the rules, The Comics might go if there’s a big shiney V8 with frilly curtains.
Stopped today by the Regional Commercial Vehicle Unit at Switch Island
Driver carrying over 20 tonnes of glass bottles secured only with internal straps with no XL side curtains fitted.
Driver reported and load made safe before onward journey.
I will probably get my head bitten off here but why is the emphasis always on the transporter and not the producer. Why don’t we have a law that insists that the producer makes the pallets safe to travel . Why dont they shrinkwrap those pallets or put top boards on so that the pallets can be strapped
the nodding donkey:
I must say, those cages look just the ticket. Lightweight, collapsible, and can be properly secured. If only we could convince Vosa/the gubermint to make companies use them, rather than get the drivers to play Russian roulette…
If you put…
The bottles into stillages such as this then, the breweries will have to spend millions on changing the bottle loading processes. When the bottles arrive they are loaded straight into the line and filled. Most breweries only carry a short stock because they don’t want to pay warehouse costs so like everything else it’s now JIT. You’ll also have to implement a stillage cleaning process and empties transportation ‘logistics’.
ramone:
I will probably get my head bitten off here but why is the emphasis always on the transporter and not the producer. Why don’t we have a law that insists that the producer makes the pallets safe to travel . Why dont they shrinkwrap those pallets or put top boards on so that the pallets can be strapped
I agree…
The onus should be squarely with the manufacturer but it’s currently on the driver which ■■■■■.
These pallets are stacked, topped each layer with strong lightweight board and then banded to specific tolerances. They have a small hand held device that measures the tension on the banding. If it’s too much or too little the pallet shouldn’t go but that frquently gets binned because ‘Dave wants to finish early cos it’s Corrie on tonight’. You put much more than a cheese butty on top of these things and your picking bottles up.
If the authorities were genuine in their intentions about load safety, they’d be sitting outside all the bottle producers and nicking every single motor that came out of the gates. Something would change then.
Stopped today by the Regional Commercial Vehicle Unit at Switch Island
Driver carrying over 20 tonnes of glass bottles secured only with internal straps with no XL side curtains fitted.
Driver reported and load made safe before onward journey.
I will probably get my head bitten off here but why is the emphasis always on the transporter and not the producer. Why don’t we have a law that insists that the producer makes the pallets safe to travel . Why dont they shrinkwrap those pallets or put top boards on so that the pallets can be strapped
Works well in Germany the people loading are also responsible for the security of the product and ensuring you are not overweight, if you are pulled and there is a problem then they receive a fine too
the nodding donkey:
I must say, those cages look just the ticket. Lightweight, collapsible, and can be properly secured. If only we could convince Vosa/the gubermint to make companies use them, rather than get the drivers to play Russian roulette…
If you put…
The bottles into stillages such as this then, the breweries will have to spend millions on changing the bottle loading processes. When the bottles arrive they are loaded straight into the line and filled. Most breweries only carry a short stock because they don’t want to pay warehouse costs so like everything else it’s now JIT. You’ll also have to implement a stillage cleaning process and empties transportation ‘logistics’.
In short…cost.
I know that, I pulled out of a brewery (and shunted there too, I’ve moved more of these loads, ok and shot, than I care to remember), and they are just as bad when it comes to presenting the finished product for transport. It’s all about cost saving. They accept a percentage of lost loads as it’s still cheaper than properly stacking/wrapping every pallet.
As mentioned, until the VOSA/gubermint legislate proper load restrained and suitable trailers, and hit both producers and transport companies for non compliance, nothing will happen, and it’s just the driver that will be hung out to dry.
rob22888:
Like it or not, the DVSA have decided how they wants things secured and they want to end the “pull the curtains and go” culture and ■■■■■■■ about with pointless internal straps. I’m not necessarily against that, but the authorities now need to go after the consignors and put some onus on them to make sure loads leave their site secured ‘correctly’. Park outside the likes of Quinn Glass, Amazon, Coca Cola etc. & refuse onto the road any load that isn’t secured right, they will soon get on to their hauliers and sort it.
It’s the only way we will see any proper change, hassling drivers at the roadside for not doing things that they aren’t given the kit to do isn’t achieving anything.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
all that park outside and refuse means is that your haulier loses the work and another few hauliers scrabble to take it on.
it could always mean you refuse yourself right out of a job if theres a knock on effect from the lost work.
the goverment isnt going to take on someone elses problem when they have the option of constant easy random fines to help them self fund.
try working for an employer that pays all fines except speeding and then you wont have a care in the world.
if your stopped,then its only an hours messing about and no big deal.
) means the loads aren’t safe.
was more interested how the load was strapped and he was most disappointed when I told him they were xl and each pallet was strapped down. So the banker could only give me a £60 fine.