norb:
have spent many a happy day repairing ZF Gearboxes …Will agree with Bking (which is a first )they are pretty chocolate…But I get the impression rightly or wrongly that he hasn’t ever overhauled a gearbox,but likes to jump on the bandwagon of what is and isn’t good…A majority of issues on the ZF 16 and 8 speed boxes ie 3rd gar synchros are according to ZF down to driver abuse …Since in warranty I have to follow their guidelines ,then I agree…The new 6 speed box has carried over the bearing issue from the old 6 speed box sadly…
I have heard somewhere Merc where using a ZF box which suprised me to say the least .wether it is true or not I do not know.I thught Merc did their own…But Volvo also use ZF boxes a well so you never know
The first EPS was MB gubbins bolted on a ZF Ecosplit, after that they built their own box, the G4 I think it was called.
That’s as much as I know about it. I never saw a ZF box on any of the specs when I was selling Mercs, other than a torque converter on a heavy haul tractor unit.
Renault’s B18 box was a ZF built under licence, maybe MB do the same?
norb:
have spent many a happy day repairing ZF Gearboxes …Will agree with Bking (which is a first )they are pretty chocolate…But I get the impression rightly or wrongly that he hasn’t ever overhauled a gearbox,but likes to jump on the bandwagon of what is and isn’t good…A majority of issues on the ZF 16 and 8 speed boxes ie 3rd gar synchros are according to ZF down to driver abuse …Since in warranty I have to follow their guidelines ,then I agree…The new 6 speed box has carried over the bearing issue from the old 6 speed box sadly…
I have heard somewhere Merc where using a ZF box which suprised me to say the least .wether it is true or not I do not know.I thught Merc did their own…But Volvo also use ZF boxes a well so you never know
The first EPS was MB gubbins bolted on a ZF Ecosplit, after that they built their own box, the G4 I think it was called.
That’s as much as I know about it. I never saw a ZF box on any of the specs when I was selling Mercs, other than a torque converter on a heavy haul tractor unit.
Renault’s B18 box was a ZF built under licence, maybe MB do the same?
Until Volvo and Renault became one as such Renault used ZF boxes ,but now I think they only use the 5 and 6 speeds ,and Volvo use the 6speed
Ref Merc I don’t know if it was on here or what that I heard used a ZF box which surprised me as I thought they did their own boxes ,but they may possible use someone elses box for certain applcations that may not prove economical for them to produce …
truckers boy:
from my experience of being a fitter for over 10yrs I think your mad if you buy a tipper with disc brakes, endless cracked discs, seized calliper sliders etc, they really don’t like gritty water. bpw eco plus axles with drum brakes are by far the best imo.
I’ve had disc breaks on my tipper for last 2 years and had no cracked discs at all. I’ve had 1 calliper seize but I now take the wheels off every 6 weeks and put plenty if lube on the slider and work the calliper till its free moving. Seems to do the trick and they’re far more efficient braking on discs.
truckers boy:
from my experience of being a fitter for over 10yrs I think your mad if you buy a tipper with disc brakes, endless cracked discs, seized calliper sliders etc, they really don’t like gritty water. bpw eco plus axles with drum brakes are by far the best imo.
I’ve had disc breaks on my tipper for last 2 years and had no cracked discs at all. I’ve had 1 calliper seize but I now take the wheels off every 6 weeks and put plenty if lube on the slider and work the calliper till its free moving. Seems to do the trick and they’re far more efficient braking on discs.
Seems like a lot of hassle to me! However you have to be admired for your attention to detail it still didn’t really work,if a calliper seized after all your effort then imagine how many more would have failed if you hadn’t bothered? Have to agree with truckers boy about the bpw eco plus ,and disagree with you xfmatt that the discs are more efficient,good drums brake efficiently enough for my liking and I only ever remove the wheels to change the tyres,surely removing the wheels every six weeks couldn’t be good for the lifespan of your wheel studs!?
I’d agree with the above, having spent a lot of Thursday on a gravel road trying to get 2 brake pads out of a seized calliper on a fruehauf bulk trailer.
I know some people said drum brakes are old hat but bpw Eco plus drum brakes have a fantastic cam shaft set up that when greased regularly will last 3 or 4 years. And if the clips on the anchor pins of the shoes are replace with the shoes then they will give consistent, even wear right down to the rivets.
My opinion would be that disk brakes only belong on what I would call straight road trailers, on main roads with limited braking and no access to sandy, mucky roads. As opposed to trailers going on sites, farmyards etc.
And having said all that, if I had to choose between saf and merc disks, it would be merc. I’ve never liked saf axles, either drum or disk. They always struck me as a cheap ror rip off and every thing down to the hub cap is a pain to deal with.
The main problem with the disc caliper is lack of protection for the lower slider pin.The top one hides behind a rubber gator and on dismantling the caliper, there it lies in perfect condition resplendent in its greasy bath, wheareas the lower pin is naked and open to the envoiroment and all the resultant crap that comes its way.
Also corrosion behind the pin bush causes it to constrict and restrict its movement along the pin, and along with the breakdown of the smooth surface of the pin this then causes the seizeing problem.
A quick repair is to remove the bolt holding the pin to the backing plate (allen bolt acessed from the rear) and remove the slider pin (not always very easy when seized ) and then put the pin in a lathe and take a couple of mm off, clean out the bush and replace. For a more thorough repair caliper service kits are available from the motor factors, containing a new slider pins and bushes.
Whether to lubricate the pin or not has + and - points, grease attracts dust and can just make things worse, choices eh
So until the caliper makers make the lower pin protected, I’d stick to drums for anything other than nice road trucking
Big Joe:
The main problem with the disc caliper is lack of protection for the lower slider pin.The top one hides behind a rubber gator and on dismantling the caliper, there it lies in perfect condition resplendent in its greasy bath, wheareas the lower pin is naked and open to the envoiroment and all the resultant crap that comes its way.
Also corrosion behind the pin bush causes it to constrict and restrict its movement along the pin, and along with the breakdown of the smooth surface of the pin this then causes the seizeing problem.
A quick repair is to remove the bolt holding the pin to the backing plate (allen bolt acessed from the rear) and remove the slider pin (not always very easy when seized ) and then put the pin in a lathe and take a couple of mm off, clean out the bush and replace. For a more thorough repair caliper service kits are available from the motor factors, containing a new slider pins and bushes.
Whether to lubricate the pin or not has + and - points, grease attracts dust and can just make things worse, choices eh
So until the caliper makers make the lower pin protected, I’d stick to drums for anything other than nice road trucking
Admittedly some of the older calipers on my current trailer (SAF discs) are as you describe above, with the top pin being enclosed and the bottom open to eliments. However, a couple if newer ones are a sealed unit on both pins and they’re always free and easy to move by hand so I think it depends which calipers you buy.
Bpw on drums, excellant , we have half the trls on ror and half bpw, wont be buying anything now unless it has bpw drums, unbelievably good and reliable.
Hi. We operate both types merc and saf axles on aggregate tippers.
Don’t have a great lot of problems with disks cracking only through age but the saf is relined twice as often as the merc axles and the calipers have needed replacing where as the merc ones are now 5 years old and not been toached. Given choice I wouldn’t look at saf again based on our experience merc every time
We’ve had two Fruehauf’s on bulk tipper work both running Daimler axles and Alcoa alloys the star shape hub flange causes stress on the rim and they crack, no matter how clean you keep the mating faces.Apart from that there a good setup.
liamd91:
We’ve had two Fruehauf’s on bulk tipper work both running Daimler axles and Alcoa alloys the star shape hub flange causes stress on the rim and they crack, no matter how clean you keep the mating faces.Apart from that there a good setup.
We are having the same issues re alloy wheels cracking, weren’t totally sure of the cause! The same axles on a weightlifter tipper
Moose
Will be interesting to see who takes the blame when bigger operators and more people start complaining Alcoa or Daimler, I don’t think enough people know about it yet.
Moose:
don’t go with anything with springs, whilst bpw are good I don’t know if they yet do an axle without springs, u bolts,etc
mercs discs are not bad to work on whilst the saf axle tend to fit a slightly thicker disc
have you got any type of engine brake on your unit? merc discs don’t last long at all round Derbyshire on bulk work behind a unit without an engine brake/retarder
a while ago saf axles were under warranty for 5 years but I think merc would stand by their axles for longer than that!
Hi Id rather change a spring than an axle beam any day, SAF had big problems cracking across the shock mount from 02 to 06 it was redesigned but the way the shock is mounted is a joke. Auction recently 4 bulkers various ages saf gear = 12 axles ,8 were cracked 4 had new axles in.The spring hanger pivot eyes crack right the way around as well had 2 change 2 fr hangers at £750 ,just welded a n/s front Merc one up as well they are just too thin in order to save weight.,Bulmans having loads of the same problem as well.The BPW drum is doing well,bit heavy but good old fashioned set up with thicker gauge hangers although word of warning after 6-8 months remove the hubs and clean the axle journals or the outer bearing path WILL seize on the axle journal .There is an easy and a hard way to remove it LOL.
I run a trailer with bpw springs, the problem is when a spring goes loaded the axle tend’s to go with it!
whilst I have never had this on a bpw axle it has been a problem with ror and smb axles in the past
Moose:
I run a trailer with bpw springs, the problem is when a spring goes loaded the axle tend’s to go with it!
whilst I have never had this on a bpw axle it has been a problem with ror and smb axles in the past
Hi,seen many a trailer roll in the yard ,axle sideways,suspension on its arse driver none the wiser ,lay in a few ■■■■ wretching laybys to change a loaded trailer with a spring gone,airbag then rubs thru on the brake drum ROR. Most of our damage comes with drivers charging onto raised weighbridges or turning on a sixpence and literally tearing the leaf,1st they know got a problem is when they loose air cos of the bag going.Still got 1 fruehauf with SMB discs = what a nightmare soft as ■■■■■ ,cant let it out without a tractor with a retarder or it will crack discs .Saf ar413 with thick twin leaf bulletproof but like everthing else that works its replaced by inferior product.
richmond:
Bpw on drums, excellant , we have half the trls on ror and half bpw, wont be buying anything now unless it has bpw drums, unbelievably good and reliable.
Hi,you had any trouble removing the hubs on the eco2?
whilst working in parts a guy came in to buy a monoleaf spring, half of one of his had been embedded in a womans car bonnet, she thought it was a forklift fork…
I have 3 aggregate trailers running on saf axles, they are the off road SKRB 9022K 9 ton axles, the trailers are 9 year old and the only thing i had to do to them was to replace the 3d axle bushes at 4-5 year old, and i replaced 3 wheel hub units between the 3 trailers, if you go for disc brakes make sure to get knorr bremse calipers and get the calipers that have the both guide pins sealed, my trialers have SK7 knorr bremse calipers which have the top and bottom guide pins sealed and they never seized up, you could park the trailer up for a year and if you took the pads out the caliper would glide freely on the pins not like the SB7 and SN7 knorr bremse calipers if left for a while they seize on the unsealed guide pin as it open the elements and it rusts and corodes. I know several bulk hauliers that run merc axles and they have told me that the axle hangers crack and give trouble and new hangers have to be fitted, one haulier told me he had to replace all 6 hangers on a 3 year old trailer! all the bulk tippers he has purchased in the past 2 years have been fitted with SAF axles because of the hanger troubles with the merc axles, SAF are now produceing their own calipers but my advice is to stick to knorr bremse as they are tried and tested, saf drum brakes are also excellent brakes as i run them before and they gave no trouble, the saf drum brake isn’t that much heavier over the disc either, SAF do a heavy duty off road axle now called cd design (custom design) if you ordered a bulk tipper with these cd axles along with the drum brakes you would have a good strong running gear. click on the following link ww1.safholland.co.uk/quicklit/SA … _en-DE.pdf
just saw this old post, thought I would add something.
Interestingly both BPW and Merc are changing their hub designs to full hubs. They wont admit anything but they wouldnt both change the designs if there wasnt an issue!
I know fleets who had had cracks on steel and alloy wheels when on star shaped hubs and carry full loads all the time. It seems to be that star shaped hubs put more fatigue on the wheels as there are more stresses around the bolt holes.
) and then put the pin in a lathe and take a couple of mm off, clean out the bush and replace. For a more thorough repair caliper service kits are available from the motor factors, containing a new slider pins and bushes.
