pavaroti:
Carryfast:
Red Squirrel:
Carryfast, why do you put so much blame on the tories for the influx of migrant labour?
What did New Labour ever do to prevent the indigenous british people from being supplanted by foreign workers?
As far as I know, Labour haven’t changed their position on immigration since the last election.
What makes you think we’ve ever had a real ‘Labour’ government except the one which we maybe ‘would’ have got if we’d have had Shore as prime minister instead of zb Wilson,Callaghan and Blair. 
What about that KGB agent Mr Foot? 
Even Enoch Powel would’nt have stopped the tide, it’s the modern world, the free movement of people, things will even out eventualy, hopefully. 
It was Wilson and Thatcher who were the real ‘moles’ and reds under the bed.So who gained most from Maggies secret meetings with Mr Glasnost and Mr Dung from China.The fact is we’re poorer and the commie zb’s are now a lot richer.Nuf said. 
But there’s not much point in armies and borders if everyone can go where they like when they like and if you’re right then why is it that there’s no ‘free movement’ for British workers to be able to work in Canada or Australia as they wish ?.
Carryfast:
Red Squirrel:
Carryfast, why do you put so much blame on the tories for the influx of migrant labour?
What did New Labour ever do to prevent the indigenous british people from being supplanted by foreign workers?
As far as I know, Labour haven’t changed their position on immigration since the last election.
What makes you think we’ve ever had a real ‘Labour’ government except the one which we maybe ‘would’ have got if we’d have had Shore as prime minister instead of zb Wilson,Callaghan and Blair.
What I’m struggling to understand is why you blame the tories so much when we had rampant immigration during the 13 years of the previous three governments when the tories weren’t in power. What about if we’d had Enoch Powell as prime minister? Wasn’t he a tory? I can’t remember his plans to flood the country with migrant labour.
Carryfast:
pavaroti:
Carryfast:
Red Squirrel:
Carryfast, why do you put so much blame on the tories for the influx of migrant labour?
What did New Labour ever do to prevent the indigenous british people from being supplanted by foreign workers?
As far as I know, Labour haven’t changed their position on immigration since the last election.
What makes you think we’ve ever had a real ‘Labour’ government except the one which we maybe ‘would’ have got if we’d have had Shore as prime minister instead of zb Wilson,Callaghan and Blair.
What about that KGB agent Mr Foot?
Even Enoch Powel would’nt have stopped the tide, it’s the modern world, the free movement of people, things will even out eventualy, hopefully.
It was Wilson and Thatcher who were the real ‘moles’ and reds under the bed.So who gained most from Maggies secret meetings with Mr Glasnost and Mr Dung from China.The fact is we’re poorer and the commie zb’s are now a lot richer.Nuf said.
But there’s not much point in armies and borders if everyone can go where they like when they like and if you’re right then why is it that there’s no ‘free movement’ for British workers to be able to work in Canada or Australia as they wish ?.
Stranger still, there’s no free movement for british workers to the british overseas territories like Bermuda and the Turks and Caicos islands.
Restricting peoples movements is the same as restricting trade, theres a cost to it.
Red Squirrel:
Carryfast:
Red Squirrel:
Carryfast, why do you put so much blame on the tories for the influx of migrant labour?
What did New Labour ever do to prevent the indigenous british people from being supplanted by foreign workers?
As far as I know, Labour haven’t changed their position on immigration since the last election.
What makes you think we’ve ever had a real ‘Labour’ government except the one which we maybe ‘would’ have got if we’d have had Shore as prime minister instead of zb Wilson,Callaghan and Blair.
What I’m struggling to understand is why you blame the tories so much when we had rampant immigration during the 13 years of the previous three governments when the tories weren’t in power. What about if we’d had Enoch Powell as prime minister? Wasn’t he a tory? I can’t remember his plans to flood the country with migrant labour.
Enoch was a Tory he also stood for Labour too. 
The fact is both Enoch on the Tory side and Shore on the Labour side were kept out of any positions of power because they both had similar ideas which didn’t suit the ideas of the big business global free market economy,such as in regards to the EU and immigration of cheap foreign labour which has always been supported by both Labour and Tory and effectively the Labour Party is just another Tory party anyway.
It’s Wilson,Callaghan,Thatcher and Blair who’ve been the ones with the power and they’ve all had similar ideas in allowing the interests of big business and,for ‘some reason’ the communist countries that we were against in the cold war,to be put above the national interest.
pavaroti:
Restricting peoples movements is the same as restricting trade, theres a cost to it.
As the figures prove there’s a bigger cost in being involved in the global free market than putting the shutters up and being self sufficient in our industrial requirements.Why import stuff that we can make for ourselves and where’s the sense in having our own workers on the dole and building up a massive trade deficit 
.
Carryfast:
pavaroti:
Restricting peoples movements is the same as restricting trade, theres a cost to it.
As the figures prove there’s a bigger cost in being involved in the global free market than putting the shutters up and being self sufficient in our industrial requirements.Why import stuff that we can make for ourselves and where’s the sense in having our own workers on the dole and building up a massive trade deficit .
You mean paying top dollar for a austin allegro. You mean having to deal with a workman with a bad atitude at great cost.
Tarrifs do not work, free market rules. 
Carryfast:
Red Squirrel:
Carryfast:
Red Squirrel:
Carryfast, why do you put so much blame on the tories for the influx of migrant labour?
What did New Labour ever do to prevent the indigenous british people from being supplanted by foreign workers?
As far as I know, Labour haven’t changed their position on immigration since the last election.
What makes you think we’ve ever had a real ‘Labour’ government except the one which we maybe ‘would’ have got if we’d have had Shore as prime minister instead of zb Wilson,Callaghan and Blair.
What I’m struggling to understand is why you blame the tories so much when we had rampant immigration during the 13 years of the previous three governments when the tories weren’t in power. What about if we’d had Enoch Powell as prime minister? Wasn’t he a tory? I can’t remember his plans to flood the country with migrant labour.
Enoch was a Tory he also stood for Labour too.
The fact is both Enoch on the Tory side and Shore on the Labour side were kept out of any positions of power because they both had similar ideas which didn’t suit the ideas of the big business global free market economy,such as in regards to the EU and immigration of cheap foreign labour which has always been supported by both Labour and Tory and effectively the Labour Party is just another Tory party anyway.
It’s Wilson,Callaghan,Thatcher and Blair who’ve been the ones with the power and they’ve all had similar ideas in allowing the interests of big business and,for ‘some reason’ the communist countries that we were against in the cold war,to be put above the national interest.
I would have to agree with most of that with the reservation that you never really know what they’d actually have done had they come to power. I don’t think there’s much difference between Labour, Tories and Liberal Democrats.
pavaroti:
Carryfast:
pavaroti:
Restricting peoples movements is the same as restricting trade, theres a cost to it.
As the figures prove there’s a bigger cost in being involved in the global free market than putting the shutters up and being self sufficient in our industrial requirements.Why import stuff that we can make for ourselves and where’s the sense in having our own workers on the dole and building up a massive trade deficit .
You mean paying top dollar for a austin allegro. You mean having to deal with a workman with a bad atitude at great cost.
Tarrifs do not work, free market rules.
Top dollar you mean like £5,491 for a new Jaguar XJ 12 v £9,794 for an inferior Mercedes 450 SEL let alone £8,443 for a 3.3 Litre BMW.You can bet that a good proportion of the price difference was made up by the extra wages that the German workers were being paid v their British counterparts.
I think you mean that the free market rules except when it’s the British ‘free labour market’ which is rigged by East European,African and Asian cheap labour being able to walk in using an open door immigration policy while British workers can’t do the same in places like Australia and North America.
But we’ve had free markets without import tarriffs for years.Suggest you check out the trade deficit and unemployment rate as it stands and maybe provide some ideas concerning how you’re going to sustain the economy and keep paying for that rate of imports of stuff that we don’t even need.
When we could be making it all for ourselves using only indigenous labour thereby reducing unemployment,thereby increasing spending power in the economy,thereby increasing demand for home produced goods,thereby increasing demand for labour v supply,thereby increasing wages,thereby increasing spending power and demand for more home produced goods etc etc so on and so forth while at the same time reducing the balance of payments deficit.
The obvious policy that was never pursued was
One in One out
201 persons have emmigrated to Rumania this year, so we’ll take 201 of theirs. 8,936 have emmigrated to Canada, so we’ll take 8,936 of theirs. Simple, and it even has the benefit that everyone knows it would work upfront!
Imagine how well it would work with ‘0 have emmigrated to Somalia/Yemen/Uganda/Haiti etc. so we’ll take …Yes…ZERO’ of theirs!
…Of course, it was never actually about “free movement of people” - it was about “balancing the deliberate inflation of ‘fiat credit’ with the deflation of suppressed wages”. The poliferation of debt is to mask the rising costs of living from those who without debt could no longer afford it. Credit has become the Opium of our age! Take away the credit, and market forces will decide higher wages for essential staff can rise to, along with much lower costs of living, because there’s no plastic to put the shopping & bills on anymore.
If we didn’t have an open door immigration policy now, we’d be in the 1970’s again with catchup-pay. Instead, we’ve got the inflation and falling pay - stagflation. Anyone here in their 60’s about to retire (but now not able to!) who thinks they’re better off than they were in the 1970’s? Us “Kids” are always being told the 1970’s was bad, but was it? Even immigration policy in the 1970’s was about commonwealth immigrants who’d might well be put into employment with the NHS or British Rail rather than be put on benefits. Nowdays, a Doctor from Zimbabwe might be turned down for a visa, whilst a hitman from Moldova gets in because “It would be dangerous for him to return to his own country” FFS! 
I reckon having to work until you drop is bad, having your pension stolen is bad, getting your hourly rate suppressed is bad, and being told that ‘market forces’ are only for toffs (who HAVE to be paid the ‘going rate’) whilst the rest of us can just walk into serfdom.
When do I get offered a job as a Oligarch’s Chauffeur in St Petersburg then? 
глаÑноÑÑ‚ÑŒ и переÑтройка? - ÐœÐ¾Ñ Ð·Ð°Ð´Ð½Ð¸Ñ†Ð°!
Winseer:
Anyone here in their 60’s about to retire (but now not able to!) who thinks they’re better off than they were in the 1970’s? Us “Kids” are always being told the 1970’s was bad, but was it? Even immigration policy in the 1970’s was about commonwealth immigrants who’d might well be put into employment with the NHS or British Rail rather than be put on benefits. Nowdays, a Doctor from Zimbabwe might be turned down for a visa, whilst a hitman from Moldova gets in because “It would be dangerous for him to return to his own country” FFS!
The only ones who tell the ‘kids’ that the 1970’s ‘were bad’ are those who stand to profit under a cheap labour economy while the economy as a whole sinks under a mountain of debt because not enough people are earning enough to keep it afloat.The 1970’s were all about prices and incomes policy in the face of massive rates of price increases and resulting inflation caused by joining the EU which was,at the time,a relatively higher wage and higher prices type economy than ours.However,unlike the German economy and it’s employers,the British employers weren’t as keen or as quick in increasing wages as the government was on increasing prices.So industrial strife by way of strikes was the order of the day and for a time it worked.
Then,added to that,was the OPEC increases in fuel costs,which the government ‘could’ have insulated us from by keeping North Sea oil for the home market only sold at pre OPEC increase prices.No surprise that the governments during the 1970’s and ever since have been all for allowing unlimited prices while at the same time wanting to limit wages by both rigging the labour market,by oversupplying it with imported labour,and/or direct government control of wages,just as the Callaghan tried (and failed) to do when the unions brought him down,and then like Maggie did,and every government since,by de industrialisation and just throwing as many people as possible out of work while still keeping immigration of foreign labour up in order to rig the labour market to a continued one of high supply and low demand.
The results on the economy of that policy are here with us now with the worst of all worlds combination of high prices and low wages, high labour supply and low demand,and a massive trade deficit and resulting levels of debt and interest rates,for those who rely on money saved in the bank,that are lower than inflation because no one could afford to pay the correct rate even if they raised it.The economy really is effectively zb’d.
As for importing commonwealth immigrant labour it was just a continuation of the rigging of the labour market as described above.By the 1950’s and 1960’s the ‘Commonwealth’ effectively ceased to exist with the countries that had formed it by then being independent.However the government used that as an excuse to import cheap labour from the most underdeveloped countries that once formed it by saying that they were ‘British’ which was bs.Which is why British workers couldn’t emigrate on a large scale to Australia or Canada so were effectively trapped in a big labour market scam.So it’s not surprising that the industrial battles and the immigration issues of the 1970’s were inevitable.
The sad thing is that the wrong side won. 
Couldn’t be arsed to read all the waffle slagging off British drivers…bottom line is this:
The influx of foreign drivers is attractive to companies because they will work for less money…end. of. story.
Forget all the bollox about arrogant, lazy, work-shy etc etc british drivers, the bottom line is about money. Plain and simple.
It might be an incidental side effect that SOME British drivers conform to that mould, likewise i am ■■■■ sure SOME foreign drivers fit it as well…but don’t kid yourselves that it is the main reason companies want foreign staff!
Oh, and the reason why seemingly a lot of drivers don’t care or take pride in the work…simple. The lack of proper training these days. Companies might send a new starter out with an established driver for a day or 2, but then they are chucked out there on their own to sink or swim. By the time you factor in the “drivers room BS” coefficient, you can have an impressionable new young driver, thinking that the “wrong” way of doing the job is actually the correct way…all because he hasn’t had the experience of working alongside a more experienced colleague for more than a day or 2.
If companies want to turn out good drivers, they have to be prepared to invest in good training…many don’t and this where the problems lie. Having a licence is only part of being able to do the job properly!
Hope this helps!
DonutUK:
Couldn’t be arsed to read all the waffle slagging off British drivers…bottom line is this:
The influx of foreign drivers is attractive to companies because they will work for less money…end. of. story.
That and the fact that it’s more a problem of the overall oversupply of the labour market that keeps wages lower,than they would be,in general throughout the economy as a whole,if we just limited employment to the indigenous workforce without adding to the supply of labour by importing more.
DonutUK:
Couldn’t be arsed to read all the waffle slagging off British drivers…bottom line is this:
The influx of foreign drivers is attractive to companies because they will work for less money…end. of. story.
Forget all the bollox about arrogant, lazy, work-shy etc etc british drivers, the bottom line is about money. Plain and simple.
It might be an incidental side effect that SOME British drivers conform to that mould, likewise i am ■■■■ sure SOME foreign drivers fit it as well…but don’t kid yourselves that it is the main reason companies want foreign staff!
Oh, and the reason why seemingly a lot of drivers don’t care or take pride in the work…simple. The lack of proper training these days. Companies might send a new starter out with an established driver for a day or 2, but then they are chucked out there on their own to sink or swim. By the time you factor in the “drivers room BS” coefficient, you can have an impressionable new young driver, thinking that the “wrong” way of doing the job is actually the correct way…all because he hasn’t had the experience of working alongside a more experienced colleague for more than a day or 2.
If companies want to turn out good drivers, they have to be prepared to invest in good training…many don’t and this where the problems lie. Having a licence is only part of being able to do the job properly!
Hope this helps!
Sounds like your a driver whose a fan of the DCPC.
I just hope to god i never have to go on another assesment where some spotty youth shows me how to use a tailift and explains what the red light means when on a bay.
pavaroti:
DonutUK:
Couldn’t be arsed to read all the waffle slagging off British drivers…bottom line is this:
The influx of foreign drivers is attractive to companies because they will work for less money…end. of. story.
Forget all the bollox about arrogant, lazy, work-shy etc etc british drivers, the bottom line is about money. Plain and simple.
It might be an incidental side effect that SOME British drivers conform to that mould, likewise i am ■■■■ sure SOME foreign drivers fit it as well…but don’t kid yourselves that it is the main reason companies want foreign staff!
Oh, and the reason why seemingly a lot of drivers don’t care or take pride in the work…simple. The lack of proper training these days. Companies might send a new starter out with an established driver for a day or 2, but then they are chucked out there on their own to sink or swim. By the time you factor in the “drivers room BS” coefficient, you can have an impressionable new young driver, thinking that the “wrong” way of doing the job is actually the correct way…all because he hasn’t had the experience of working alongside a more experienced colleague for more than a day or 2.
If companies want to turn out good drivers, they have to be prepared to invest in good training…many don’t and this where the problems lie. Having a licence is only part of being able to do the job properly!
Hope this helps!
Sounds like your a driver whose a fan of the DCPC.
I just hope to god i never have to go on another assesment where some spotty youth shows me how to use a tailift and explains what the red light means when on a bay.
No, i said “proper training”!
We have about 8 drivers doing a DCPC session today (i’m not, i’m on weekly rest), which is probably the 10th session run in the last couple of months, so most drivers have at least 4 sessions completed…trouble is, the last 3 have all been the same module…!
Complete waste of time.
Not the “spotty youth’s” fault, he’s just doing his job.