I don’t think that 99% of those who get done for exceeding hours are “running bent” they’ve simply exceeded their driving time by a trivial amount due wanting to get home, not being able to find somewhere to park or they’re not paying attention to their hours. Either way its hardly a criminal activity its made out to be by the authorities. I for one seriously resent the way a case would be put forward by Vosa/Police etc that a driver has driven/worked 37.5 hours “without a break” simply because he’s done a 15 hour day, had 8:25 minutes off and then done a 15 hour day before being apprehended. Just because 8:25 or even 8:59 isn’t 9 hours, it doesn’t mean they’ve worked none stop for the 15+8:59+15 without break. Its nothing more than misleading scaremongering and criminalising normal guys for making slight errors and mistakes.
Systematic running bent for financial gain must be almost extinct in the UK these days. Maybe some owner drivers and small cowboy outfits but statistically they could never amount to more than 0.5% of the trucks on the road, and probably much less than that.
The over regulation of this industry to me all boils down to one thing, the enforcement agencies have to justify their existence and the only way they can do so is if there is an actual reason for them to exist and if there isn’t, they have to make it appear like there is, or invent new rules which are harder and harder to adhere to, thus ensuring there is always a constant source of offenders who get caught in the trap.
robinhood_1984:
The over regulation of this industry to me all boils down to one thing, the enforcement agencies have to justify their existence and the only way they can do so is if there is an actual reason for them to exist and if there isn’t, they have to make it appear like there is, or invent new rules which are harder and harder to adhere to, thus ensuring there is always a constant source of offenders who get caught in the trap.
That just about sums it up, couldn’t agree more, and it will only get worse as they make up even more trivial and pedantic “offences”
A classic example, although maybe nothing to do with the subject of the thread, is suddenly not recognising rope as a load securing method. Rope has been used successfully by generations of drivers, but suddenly on these ■■■■■■■ s say so it suddenly becomes an “unsafe method” and another excuse for them to fine us 
robroy:
That just about sums it up, couldn’t agree more, and it will only get worse as they make up even more trivial and pedantic “offences”
A classic example, although maybe nothing to do with the subject of the thread, is suddenly not recognising rope as a load securing method. Rope has been used successfully by generations of drivers, but suddenly on these [zb] s say so it suddenly becomes an “unsafe method” and another excuse for them to fine us
It seems its all going the same way as Germany regarding totally over the top load securement. It almost works there because they have the equipment geared up for that sort of thing, they have Euroliners with alloy boards, they have strapping points every few inches and the transport companies actually supply proper equipment such as span sets and anti-slip mats. Its still totally over the top and over kill but it almost works. In the UK it seems to be another money trap with the driver acting as the naughty mischievous mouse that the authorities have to stamp on, all the time while his employer don’t take it seriously and fail to invest in trailers that actually allow for load security and providing span sets etc and just like the the illegal immigrant fiasco in Northern France that sees multiple drivers fined for carrying the exact same undocumented criminal, who gets caught and released time and time again to ensure maximum fining potential, the British driver is now also in the same boat in his own country as he now finds himself driving a truck that isn’t fit for the new moved goal posts Vosa have thought of on a team building exercise in Germany.
Unfortunately Britain is now a country of jobsworths and heaven help any one who tries to get on with the job in a time honoured, well tried and tested manner, using his own experience and brain to do so. It even seems that an ever increasing amount of truck drivers themselves need to be handled in this way in order to function. If they’re not being told exactly what to do, how to do it and where and for how long, if they’re not constantly fearing the consequences of disciplinary action, they feel like a fish out of water. Its one of the reasons I’d only work for small firms in the UK where I’m left alone to do the job and one of the main motivations for now driving a truck in Canada. I just consider myself to be a normal driver who values his freedoms but with the way things are going and the things some on here come out with and what some of the more shall we say “whiter than white” drivers consider to be “running bent”, I’m starting to feel like a bit of a maverick and possibly even an outcast. The days of running bent in the UK/Europe were before my time but I’ve done plenty of it over here and some of the things that the jobsworths complain about here as being heinously illegal are quite laughable really.
robinhood_1984:
some of the things that the jobsworths complain about here as being heinously illegal are quite laughable really.
Come on… some of us could do with a laugh. What are they?
zippy!:
You should have contested the ticket, if you just paid it, you have technically pleasd guilty. If you were not guilty of the offence ie through legitimate circumstances for which you had made a print out then you were not guilty. It might seem easier to pay the 60 notes than contest it but in paying you are accepting conviction of the offence, not just the financial penalty.
I doubt he/she would have won it…
ezydriver:
robinhood_1984:
some of the things that the jobsworths complain about here as being heinously illegal are quite laughable really.Come on… some of us could do with a laugh. What are they?
I’ve seen it written by one member on here that anything over a 12/13hr work day is “running bent”
Then there those who wont park a truck up when they arrive at the yard, but rather abandon it at the gate because their tacho is on 9:59 drive or 14:59 duty or such like.
Then there’s those who manual entry everything, even if it then [zb] them up later on and they usually start threads about how their company “makes me run bent”.
Then there are others who start threads about a trip they’ve been asked to do and that they don’t think they can cover the 500km in one shift, and they don’t want to do a night out so on the principal of not “running bent” they refused to do the job and then ■■■■■ when they get sacked for being so utterly useless to the industry they’ve chosen to enter.
Then there’s the old chestnut of “running bent” if you put your tacho on rest while tipping. Something that was common place even 5 or 10 years ago, is now somehow a huge offence and morally reprehensible to many.
The list could go on but at this time of the evening I really can’t be bothered to come up with others. Whether or not they make you laugh is doubtful, I’m not actually laughing myself, rather I find the whole thing frustrating and it was merely a figure of speech.
Do you consider the above examples to be “running bent”? I know I certainly don’t. Running from Scotland to Italy in the manner that Boyles got caught doing, yes, definitely. Exceeding your time by 3 minutes due to shunting in the yard, no, certainly not, its not even worth talking about, let alone lumping together with a continuous 19 hour drive to Milan.
I misunderstood. when you said “some of the things that the jobsworths complain about here” I thought you meant Canadian drivers, not Trucknet UK users. But yes, I consider parking up at 9:59 around the corner from the yard a p*** take. Vosa won’t care about the occasional few minutes over.
ezydriver:
I misunderstood. when you said “some of the things that the jobsworths complain about here” I thought you meant Canadian drivers, not Trucknet UK users. But yes, I consider parking up at 9:59 around the corner from the yard a p*** take. Vosa won’t care about the occasional few minutes over.
Lol what most Canadian drivers do, especially those here in the Maritime provinces, I think would make Vosa have an instant heart attack. Some seriously take the ■■■■ and in the end that will spoil it for everybody. Most of us bend the rules to suit,the DOT here will turn a bind eye to the odd 30 minutes here or there or an hour or so to get home after a week or two away but when it eventually all goes electronic I don’t think it’ll be much better than the EU, it will all be to the exact minute and being treat like a light bulb that can be switched on and off in a layby 30 miles from home will be the order of the day once more.
robinhood_1984:
ezydriver:
I misunderstood. when you said “some of the things that the jobsworths complain about here” I thought you meant Canadian drivers, not Trucknet UK users. But yes, I consider parking up at 9:59 around the corner from the yard a p*** take. Vosa won’t care about the occasional few minutes over.Lol what most Canadian drivers do, especially those here in the Maritime provinces, I think would make Vosa have an instant heart attack. Some seriously take the ■■■■ and in the end that will spoil it for everybody. Most of us bend the rules to suit,the DOT here will turn a bind eye to the odd 30 minutes here or there or an hour or so to get home after a week or two away but when it eventually all goes electronic I don’t think it’ll be much better than the EU, it will all be to the exact minute and being treat like a light bulb that can be switched on and off in a layby 30 miles from home will be the order of the day once more.
Is it all analogue there currently?
ezydriver:
Is it all analogue there currently?
When I arrived here in 2009 it was paper log books all across Canada and the US, now there are a huge amount of US fleets and a smaller number of Canadian firms on electronic log books, they’re not as controlling as a digital tacho but the difference between a paper log book and an elog is huge. At the moment companies can choose what they use and obviously I’m still on paper logs and will be until the last minute of the last day as I value the freedom and flexibility it allows me, even though I have absolutely no intention of seriously running bent but I do steal 15 minutes here and 30 minutes there if needs be on occasion. Within 1-3 years I they say the US will make them compulsory, though this date keeps getting put back and back as it gets challenged in the courts. Its not quite as simple as the EU where bureaucracy, legislation and punishment are king. Just last year the courts in the Canadian province of Ontario ruled that that provinces requirement for all trucks in that province, including visiting trucks had to be fitted with speed limiters set at no higher than 105km/h to be unconstitutional and it was thrown out and the same battles are raging with regards log books. Now, most firms now limit their trucks to 105km/h or 65mph any way for fuel consumption reasons and many firms also adopt elogs because its easier for them to keep track on drivers hours but on the same token, they can alter the elog records from their end and try and force drivers to keep on driving, whereas with a paper log the driver is still the captain of his own ship.
When elogs do become law, I think I’d actually enjoy driving in the UK more. The distances here are too vast to be timed by the minute and parking up hours earlier than necessary every day, just in case you go over your time are no good when you’re paid by the mile, rather than the hour/day and the whole industry in the US and Canada are dead set against changing mileage based pay, which is the main reason in my opinion that people run bent in the first place, to make up for all the money they dont earn when they sit for 6 hours getting tipped etc.
Conor:
I couldn’t believe that Limeyphil asked his employer whether he wanted him to run bent or legal. Every company I’ve worked at they’d show you the door.What an arse. I guess it may not be long before he’s back in prison because he’s run bent for that long I doubt he even knows what the legal hours are.
I’ve asked every firm i’ve worked for the same question. That way you know where you stand and the boss knows you know what’s what.
I’ve never been shown the door, I’ve never been knocked back.
You assume i was in prison for driving offences, Tachograph related you assume. You couldn’t be further from the truth. You are right in one thing you say. I probably will be back inside one day. Arrest is an occupational hazard, As long as the reward exceeds the risk. 
robinhood_1984:
robinhood_1984:
some of the things that the jobsworths complain about here as being heinously illegal are quite laughable really.I’ve seen it written by one member on here that anything over a 12/13hr work day is “running bent”
Then there those who wont park a truck up when they arrive at the yard, but rather abandon it at the gate because their tacho is on 9:59 drive or 14:59 duty or such like.
Then there’s those who manual entry everything, even if it then [zb] them up later on and they usually start threads about how their company “makes me run bent”.
Then there are others who start threads about a trip they’ve been asked to do and that they don’t think they can cover the 500km in one shift, and they don’t want to do a night out so on the principal of not “running bent” they refused to do the job and then ■■■■■ when they get sacked for being so utterly useless to the industry they’ve chosen to enter.
Then there’s the old chestnut of “running bent” if you put your tacho on rest while tipping. Something that was common place even 5 or 10 years ago, is now somehow a huge offence and morally reprehensible to many.
Do you consider the above examples to be “running bent”? I know I certainly don’t. Running from Scotland to Italy in the manner that Boyles got caught doing, yes, definitely. Exceeding your time by 3 minutes due to shunting in the yard, no, certainly not, its not even worth talking about, let alone lumping together with a continuous 19 hour drive to Milan.
Again I agree, but the problem is that VOSA are gradually heading towards a zero tolerance policy and concentrating on such minor offences as if they are serious, dealing with them by issuing more disproportionate fines, and if they catch somebody like Boyles in the process it, as you say, justifies their actions and their existence.
I have adapted to this myself so as not to give the ■■■■■■■■ any excuse,… ok I wouldn’t be so feckless as to do some of the tricks you mention like abandoning at the gate on 9/59, but I am wary now of tipping on break for instance after having seen VOSA entering premises to catch you. I will get a lift home if 20mins from yard if time is up (even this is illegal now if you get the lift from another same-co. driver ffs 
) as they WILL do you, but mostly due to the guy I mentioned a few posts back, that done something similar, was involved in a fatality and ended up in the nick, ok he was maybe a one off but it proves it can happen. The fact is they are out to get you and the good old days of getting away with it are over.
Robinhood_1984 as always is bang on the money & as sharp as a Stanley knife. I salute you Sir.
Robin quoted undocumented immigrants.
This is correct as they throw away their ID and passports.Some burn off their finger prints to hide their true identity to the authorities to avoid being sent back to their home land.
The law to fine drivers £2000 per illegal is a disgrace and an illegal law.
Does the airline pilot,ferry captain or train driver get fined as they also carry illegals on their care.
If you have a bulk blower tanker full of flour or chemicals,the law says you must climb in there to check.
Two guys hid inside the under carriage of an air liner and one fell out and died over London on landing approach.Did the Captain do his pre take off checks.?Atc failed in their duty.
Silver_Surfer:
Robinhood_1984 as always is bang on the money & as sharp as a Stanley knife. I salute you Sir.
+1
I don’t think I’ve seen one of his posts before but it’s smack on clearly well thought out and very eloquently puts across a sensible point
Tipper Tom:
Silver_Surfer:
Robinhood_1984 as always is bang on the money & as sharp as a Stanley knife. I salute you Sir.+1
I don’t think I’ve seen one of his posts before but it’s smack on clearly well thought out and very eloquently puts across a sensible point
Well I think he talks a load of cack!!
Only kidding RH …didn’t know you had a fan club 
It was considered normal to one hit it from the ports in Northern France to clear customs at the TIR park in Irun which is about 13 to 14 hours driving depending on which port or more from Calais.Most would one hit it to Sunbilla or Pamplona or even Victors at Burgos.
Warehouses and freight forwarders would expect you in Lisbon in one day and a half from the ports and ask what took so long if you arrived in two days.
Legaly with bad and slow roads it was a four day trip to Lisbon.
Back then, the Basque Police knew all the tricks.
If you told the client in Lisbon you did it legal they did not want to know and get another haulier to do it bent.
Like a lot of people most of my “infringements” are on the whole accidental, very seldom do I go over a drive period to get loaded or tipped ! The reason ,since vosa have increased powers to fine on the spot to deliberately cost myself money doesn’t make sense , its bad luck if an accidental infringement costs you but to knowingly do something that’ll cost me , Noooooooooo!
robroy:
Only kidding RH
I’m sure I’ll go and ruin it all before long by saying something to ■■■■ everyone off!
robinhood_1984:
robroy:
Only kidding RHI’m sure I’ll go and ruin it all before long by saying something to ■■■■ everyone off!
The same reason that I don’t make many friends on here