.
Err I’m not campaigning for elogs, I have just accepted that they’re coming whether I like it or not and found a way to work around them, ie running legally.
It will with a bit of luck, drag trucking into the 21st century and remove some of the deadwood, so I do agree with their introduction.
However it’s a different time and place, as I said and comparing it to running to Southern Europe in the 80s and 90s is like comparing apples to oranges.
Carryfast:
eddie snax:
Carryfast:
.With 8 hours minimum taken as a block,not 6,together with higher speed limits.?.That’s 8 hrs standing, not sleeping, time you get a shower and some grub, that’s maybe an hour or more gone. In the morning time for a quick splash and brew some coffee, then its kick the tyres and light the fires before rolling thats the best part of another hour gone, so before long you’re down to 6 hrs kip time, which means that the US dot must believe 6 hrs kip or less, to be a suitably refreshing amount of kip to crack on to another potentially 16 hr shift, which may include 13 hrs of pedal time yee haa
ps I know nothing of the US trucking scene, but that a rough up some of my routine
If they thought that 6 hours sleep between 13 hour driving shifts was enough they would make it an 8 hour mininum daily rest period not 10.
.
They, according to what you wrote earlier, allow a driver to split his daily rest, or how can it be that you described “With 8 hours minimum taken as a block”, in a similar vein to 12 hour split rest under EU regs 
I’m sure that even the most naive DOT official wont assume that a driver jumps straight in the sack for a kip as soon as the wheels stop 
Christ is he still going on?
.
Carryfast:
eddie snax:
Carryfast:
If they thought that 6 hours sleep between 13 hour driving shifts was enough they would make it an 8 hour mininum daily rest period not 10.They, according to what you wrote earlier, allow a driver to split his daily rest, or how can it be that you described “With 8 hours minimum taken as a block”, in a similar vein to 12 hour split rest under EU regs
I didn’t say that 8 hours means exactly 8 hours sleep.But it would be fair to say that it’s,hopefully,at worse,still supposed to allow more than 6 hours sleep between 13 hour drives,by utilising the rest of the 10 hour period for the other stuff like eating etc.While it obviously doesn’t say that drivers ‘must’ split their 10 hour rest period.The important bit being that it’s the ideal combination ( for long haul work away from base ) of a 10 hour daily rest period,decent driving time limit
:
The fact that a driver is even allowed to split the rest, brining the block rest down from 10 to 8 hrs, means that they don’t think that 10 hrs is the absolute minimum required, other wise that would be the minimum, the facility to chop down to 8 would not exist.
To say that by utilising the rest of the 10 hour period for the other stuff like eating etc shows a lack of understanding of how a long haul or tramping driver would work, and how the reality of split rests work, whether in the States or the EU. I cant think of any drivers I know, who want to stop the motor and climb straight in the sack for a nights kip, different for a 15-20min power nap, but for a nights kip, you do a bit of winding down first this maybe include a shower, some refreshment, a bit of TV, or writing crap on forums, but winding down is still done, I don’t think the yanks are going to be that much different. So to believe that a driver will have taken refreshment earlier, and still not want to take refreshment and wind down at the end of the shift so to maximise the amount of sleep available in the 8 hr rest period is bonkers
As I said earlier, I don’t any thing about the US trucking scene, but I don’t think American driver are going to be that much different to us.
I’m enjoying this thread despite carryfast trying his hardest to f**k it up. Wish I’d been able to get on the work that you blokes are talking about, but I didn’t, so unlike him, I’ll keep me gob shut.
eddie snax:
Carryfast:
eddie snax:
Carryfast:
To say that by utilising the rest of the 10 hour period for the other stuff like eating etc shows a lack of understanding of how a long haul or tramping driver would work, and how the reality of split rests work, whether in the States or the EU. I cant think of any drivers I know, who want to stop the motor and climb straight in the sack for a nights kip, different for a 15-20min power nap, but for a nights kip, you do a bit of winding down first this maybe include a shower, some refreshment, a bit of TV, or writing crap on forums, but winding down is still done,Nah, surely that don’t happen does it ■■
.
peterm:
I’m enjoying this thread despite carryfast trying his hardest to f**k it up. Wish I’d been able to get on the work that you blokes are talking about, but I didn’t, so unlike him, I’ll keep me gob shut.
The topic obviously isn’t all about Euro work.I think the point is anyone who at least ran on log books would know that those provided either a great benefit regarding flexibility and freedom in the job to the reasonably honest,or carte blanche to those who wanted to take the pish.Unfortunately the latter zbing it up for the former in that regard.The rest being history.Which sort of sums up the whole topic.
quote …‘‘The topic obviously isn’t all about Euro work’’.
Harry Monk:
One day in about 1988, I was running back through France, when I approached a peage. The Police were waiting on the other side, and there was a Dutch truck already at the booth. At the time, I had shorted out my tachograph using a short piece of wire with a tiny crocodile clip on each end, I had cut into the harness behind the steering column and by earthing out the circuit, I cold drive indefinitely with the tacho showing “rest”. One hit from Milan!I thought no worries, the Dutchman will be long gone when I pull up, they’ll pull him in and off I’ll jolly well go. However, he didn’t move, just sat there for ages. I slowed down, still he sat there. As I pulled level with him at the next booth, he looked at me, then at his tacho, as if to say “I’m fiddling. You go first”. So I looked at him as if to say “Me too. But you were here first”.
So off he reluctantly went and naturally the filth pulled him in, while I cracked on.
It seemed that this was endemic in the 1980s on continental work. Running on the wire, winding the tacho clock forwards and backwards, writing the wrong date on the card, I knew people who had ingenious systems built into the dashboard to disable the tacho. If you did get stopped, a 100 franc note tucked into your passport before you handed it over usually worked wonders.
As it’s decades too late for this to cause problems, I wondered if anybody else would like to post their confessional?
You sure about that C/F ? It started off as an ‘over the water’ thread, but someone derailed it (as usual)
raymundo:
You sure about that C/F ? It started off as an ‘over the water’ thread, but someone derailed it (as usual)
Fair enough.But the general premise that what might have remained a good environment with the foreign plod was zb’d up by too much pish taking,like one hitters to/from Milan etc,seems a fair one ?.Just like we lost running on log books and without limiters here.That’s not derailing it.
Pish? Pish? Are you Scottish now? It’s ■■■■ ffs, unless you’re from North of Hadrian’s Wall.
newmercman:
Pish? Pish? Are you Scottish now? It’s ■■■■ ffs, unless you’re from North of Hadrian’s Wall.
Just a bit of self imposed censorship like zb.
Anyway what’s your view on that general premise that the party was in large part ended by too much ■■■■ taking.IE there seems to be a pattern from the Frogs etc being happy to turn a blind eye until people started disabling tachos and running silly distances at the obvious expense of sleep.Or here running at flat out speeds and just filling in log books as they pleased etc.Or people over there doing similar ?.
I don’t know what happened, it seemed like the French police turned into Germans overnight, one minute you got away with a coffee, next minute it was neuf cent franc s’il vous plait. It was around the time when they stopped you running home after 10pm Saturday, maybe they got a new man at the top and he decided that the statistics in France didn’t match those of other countries, so mandated a new harsher regime. Obviously there wasn’t a paper trail for a coffee, so even though you got pulled more in France, you never actually got nicked unless you were very naughty or the gendarme was a real ■■■■■■■■.
It didn’t stop the Italian or Spanish old bill from taking a drink, so it was only France that had a change of heart, but with France being too big to get through in one hit on the way down and even more so when you already had a card nearly full up on the way back by the time you crossed the border t was a big problem for the one a week gang.
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I have a story about running legal that I find quite amusing, we got a new transport manager who insisted we could do the job legally and he wanted legal tachos off of us or else we were out the door, he and I had already clashed after I defected my lorry for a dodgy tyre before Xmas and found the same tyre on it when I returned to work in the new year. He told me to take a UK shunter to load my trailer at Perkins Engines in Peterborough, it was a 280 MAN that had no high split on the 13spd Fuller and I turned around and brought it back to the yard and told him I wasn’t going to Peterborough in it. I had a very nice, nearly new left ■■■■■■ 142, so I wasn’t happy about taking the old dog of a shunter out in the first place, but the lack of a splitter made my already bad mood worse. He got in my face and told me to take the MAN or I was finished and started giving it the big un in front of the boss man who went mad and told the TM to behave and get my lorry sorted Pronto or he would be the one that was finished, after that I was on his hit list.
So the running legal thing started, so we all did it as requested, as also requested we phoned in in the middle of the day each day, except when we shipped into Calais late Sunday night, we carried on until we had done a 9hr day, rather than park up and leave in the morning, so the middle of the day was now 3am, so that’s when we phoned in. Of course the office was closed then, so we phoned the TM at home, there were three of us running together, so the first one called at 3am and when the phone was answered by the half asleep TM my mate told him where he was and that everything was going ok and that was that, theTM didn’t quite know what to say and put the phone down, so we gave it 15mins or so, just enough time for him to nod off again and the next one called, this time the TM wasn’t happy and asked my mate WTF was going on, so he told him that as we were running legal now we had to run nights in order to get to Italy for clearance Tuesday morning and we would be sleeping while tge office was open. He was not amused. This time we gave it a good half an hour before I called in, just to make sure he would be back asleep and my call would wake him up again, he was screaming blue murder down the phone at me!
Next night we done the same, he asked the first one to call if we were still running together and if we were then one call would be enough, obviously he was told that no, we had split up, so he sighed and put the phone down 15mins later the next one called in and he answered on the first ring,trying to beat us at our little game, so I never bothered phoning in, imagining him sat up waiting by the phone all night for my call. On the Tuesday after clearing and tipping we had to ring in for our reloads and we had all split up by then, so when I called and asked the office girl to put me through to theTM she put me through to the boss man himself who told me to behave and stop tormenting the TM, I said I was only doing what he told me to do and he just laughed and told me to ignore him, it was his firm and he made the rules and we were to carry on as we had done before. I don’t think I ever had a conversation with the TM again until he left some time later, he hated my guts lol
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Carryfast:
eddie snax:
To say that by utilising the rest of the 10 hour period for the other stuff like eating etc shows a lack of understanding of how a long haul or tramping driver would work, and how the reality of split rests work, whether in the States or the EU. I cant think of any drivers I know, who want to stop the motor and climb straight in the sack for a nights kip, different for a 15-20min power nap, but for a nights kip, you do a bit of winding down first this maybe include a shower, some refreshment, a bit of TV, or writing crap on forums, but winding down is still done, I don’t think the yanks are going to be that much different. So to believe that a driver will have taken refreshment earlier, and still not want to take refreshment and wind down at the end of the shift so to maximise the amount of sleep available in the 8 hr rest period is bonkersAs I said earlier, I don’t any thing about the US trucking scene, but I don’t think American driver are going to be that much different to us.
The reality of how ‘split rests’ over there work would obviously be that the driver either uses them correctly for eating resting etc etc for more flexibility in the daily rest regime,or runs bent by losing large amounts of daily rest requirement on the log book to create more driving or loading time.
While nmm probably wouldn’t at least be condoning the introduction of E logs if he thought that plenty of people over there weren’t taking the pish with log books.Which is ironic regarding his views v mine regarding the topic.
Any amount of sleep taken during your shift, as part of a split rest, means ■■■■ all to what you have in 1 go at night, so if the minimum rest requirement in one lump is 8, then that is a tacit acceptance that less than 8 hrs sleep is going to be taken. Doesn’t matter how many times or ways you try to move it around, cat naps are different to sleep, anything under a couple of hours is a nap, any thing more is a sleep
raymundo:
eddie snax:
To say that by utilising the rest of the 10 hour period for the other stuff like eating etc shows a lack of understanding of how a long haul or tramping driver would work, and how the reality of split rests work, whether in the States or the EU. I cant think of any drivers I know, who want to stop the motor and climb straight in the sack for a nights kip, different for a 15-20min power nap, but for a nights kip, you do a bit of winding down first this maybe include a shower, some refreshment, a bit of TV, or writing crap on forums, but winding down is still done,Nah, surely that don’t happen does it ■■ ]
raymundo:
quote …‘‘The topic obviously isn’t all about Euro work’’.Harry Monk:
One day in about 1988, I was running back through France, when I approached a peage. The Police were waiting on the other side, and there was a Dutch truck already at the booth. At the time, I had shorted out my tachograph using a short piece of wire with a tiny crocodile clip on each end, I had cut into the harness behind the steering column and by earthing out the circuit, I cold drive indefinitely with the tacho showing “rest”. One hit from Milan!I thought no worries, the Dutchman will be long gone when I pull up, they’ll pull him in and off I’ll jolly well go. However, he didn’t move, just sat there for ages. I slowed down, still he sat there. As I pulled level with him at the next booth, he looked at me, then at his tacho, as if to say “I’m fiddling. You go first”. So I looked at him as if to say “Me too. But you were here first”.
So off he reluctantly went and naturally the filth pulled him in, while I cracked on.
It seemed that this was endemic in the 1980s on continental work. Running on the wire, winding the tacho clock forwards and backwards, writing the wrong date on the card, I knew people who had ingenious systems built into the dashboard to disable the tacho. If you did get stopped, a 100 franc note tucked into your passport before you handed it over usually worked wonders.
As it’s decades too late for this to cause problems, I wondered if anybody else would like to post their confessional?
You sure about that C/F ? It started off as an ‘over the water’ thread, but someone derailed it (as usual)
True that the OP was about Continental work, but the thread heading doesn’t define it as continental work, just running bent, as Harry stated
It seemed that this was endemic in the 1980s on continental work. Running on the wire, winding the tacho clock forwards and backwards, writing the wrong date on the card, I knew people who had ingenious systems built into the dashboard to disable the tacho.
these antics were happening at home aswell. Come to think of it, when does a continental run stop being continental, and how many guys might do some domestic and continental. If you were cool with running bent over the water, why would you stop whilst on home soil