Carryfast:
I know all about the uk night trunking speed regime because I did it for 15 years.
,being lumbered with a speed regime which ironically was put there in large part because of a few people taking the pish with truck speeds :
I understand that you did night trunking for some considerable time, you have said previously. This is why I’m surprised that you say it was the few, because in the circles I was moving it seemed to be every one
From my experience of the late 80’s through most of the 90’s, which was mostly unaccompanied tilts, the majority were pulling some stunt or another, or all of the stunts together, allways having the ability to get back to port with a boat catcher or to doorstep a job for “am” the next day. And when running late at night and into the early hours to doorstep a job, I never felt that I was going excessively at 65mph-ish as all the other wagons running overnight were cracking on at similar speeds. So I counter that it was a few that spoiled it for the majority, more that the majority got what was coming, and had to accept that we may have been part of the reason that the party was bought to an early end
I don’t know if you’re saying that it was a few running regularly at more than 65 mph type speeds and/or ignoring the hours regs in a big way who in large part spoilt the party for the many which is what I’ve said.
carryfast:
As for drawbars you’re on shaky ground if you’re really suggesting that those weren’t at least as popular as artics if not moreso right across Eurasia from Vladivostok to Bordeaux and Murmansk to Istanbul and beyond
From actually travelling those roads I can tell you that you are incorrect. They were popular on German, Dutch and Italian domestic work. They’re use in international work primarily grew with the likes of Westerman, Peakes and Hungarocamion. The overall flexibility of the traditional artic meant it outnumbered wagon and drags by a conservative 10 to 1
.While I’d guess that Friderici or VIT might have given me a job based on my truck preferences and views on dodgy running practices.
Because you think they ran legal??
As Mr Bridger said to Camp Freddy “my dear boy, everybody is bent”
carryfast:
As for drawbars you’re on shaky ground if you’re really suggesting that those weren’t at least as popular as artics if not moreso right across Eurasia from Vladivostok to Bordeaux and Murmansk to Istanbul and beyond
From actually travelling those roads I can tell you that you are incorrect. They were popular on German, Dutch and Italian domestic work. They’re use in international work primarily grew with the likes of Westerman, Peakes and Hungarocamion. The overall flexibility of the traditional artic meant it outnumbered wagon and drags by a conservative 10 to 1
.While I’d guess that Friderici or VIT might have given me a job based on my truck preferences and views on dodgy running practices.
Because you think they ran legal??
As Mr Bridger said to Camp Freddy “my dear boy, everybody is bent”
I was actually referring to drawbars in terms of both foreign domestic and cross border use combined v artics while Scandinavia was obviously included in that. As for flexibility given a demount rigid what’s the difference. While how many artic operators actually returned with a different trailer than the one they went out with.
As for Friderici I was referring more to their preferred choice of wagon in the day than running practices the former I knew about the latter who knows.
As for VIT I’m saying nothing but have it on extremely good authority that they ran whiter than white.
newmercman:
I think you’ll find that the hour’s regulations haven’t change since the 80s. So your argument is invalid, the only things that have changed are the recording methods and they are enforced more strictly nowadays. Nothing to do with unsafe drivers, it’s all about generating revenue, just the same as the proliferation of “safety” cameras, all they are are cash registers.
Speed limiters on lorries were introduced in order to harmonise speeds across the EU, but they only effected Britain with its 60mph list and Spain with its 100km/h limit on Autopistas.
All this ■■■■■■■■ you keep spouting about dangerous levels of fatigue is just that, a load of old ■■■■■■■■, you have no experience of it whatsoever, so how can you have anything upon which to base your opinion?
You’re just arguing for the sake of arguing, on and on and on about the same old ■■■■■■■■, time after time after time. As usual you are the only one that is right, even though you never did the job yourself, now I know that isn’t your fault, I mean, what on earth were all those successful transport companies thinking running artics abroad? We all know they would’ve been much better off importing Kenworths from Australia and converting them into wagon and drags so you could drive them with your class two licence.
You say that nothing has changed since the 1980’s.When tachos were actually introduced in the 1980’s here arguably in large part because of the excesses being discussed going on just the same in the 1970’s and before.In addition to further ‘changes’ in recording methods and with it even stricter enforcement.While if it’s all about revenue raising then people would obviously only get fined for infringements not get sent to jail.
Speed limiters were introduced here.Which like tachos might have been easier to resist if it wasn’t for public support resulting in large part again from people taking the pish with truck speeds.
As for fatigue v bent running what experience does it take other than the knowledge of the distances in question and natural biology.
As for drawbars you’re on shaky ground if you’re really suggesting that those weren’t at least as popular as artics if not moreso right across Eurasia from Vladivostok to Bordeaux and Murmansk to Istanbul and beyond regardless of the fact of my class 2 status before 1985 or class 1 after that.In addition to arguably being the best option to now take the industry forward in the form of LHV’s.While I’d guess that Friderici or VIT might have given me a job based on my truck preferences and views on dodgy running practices.
Mate you couldn’t get a job doing continental in England, so why on earth would a foreign company employ you to do the same? Unless of course they didn’t speak any English and therefore they would be just like you in not having a clue what on earth you’re rambling on about lol
Having the wrong licence and refusing to drive more than 9hrs a day, I can’t understand why there wasn’t a line up at your front door of international transport managers begging you to come and work for them, it just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever, especially when they would also learn where they were going wrong in the choice of lorries and their configurations. They missed an opportunity there didn’t they…
newmercman:
Mate you couldn’t get a job doing continental in England, so why on earth would a foreign company employ you to do the same? Unless of course they didn’t speak any English and therefore they would be just like you in not having a clue what on earth you’re rambling on about lol
Having the wrong licence and refusing to drive more than 9hrs a day, I can’t understand why there wasn’t a line up at your front door of international transport managers begging you to come and work for them, it just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever, especially when they would also learn where they were going wrong in the choice of lorries and their configurations. They missed an opportunity there didn’t they…
I didn’t say I’d refuse to drive more than 9 hours a day.In fact you’ll find plenty of posts of mine saying that we should remove seperate driving time limits completely and just align them with the duty limit in addition to getting rid of tachos and going back to log books.The problem being that there’s not much chance of any of that if the law makers and public think that’ll give those who don’t give a zb about hours regs carte blanche to do as they like
As I’ve said I had a class 1 within 4 years of the legal start out age which seems to fit the idea of start at the bottom and work your way up the ladder.Although there was obviously no reason why a class 2 should have made that process any more difficult than having a 1 given that there were plenty of even uk operators who didn’t agree with your preference for artics.
As for the general theme of my arguments.If I’ve read it right you’ve at least also supported the idea of the introduction of E logs over there because of drivers taking the pish with hours on log books ?.In which case why all the ■■■■■■■■ and moaning about what I’ve said.
carryfast:
As for drawbars you’re on shaky ground if you’re really suggesting that those weren’t at least as popular as artics if not moreso right across Eurasia from Vladivostok to Bordeaux and Murmansk to Istanbul and beyond
From actually travelling those roads I can tell you that you are incorrect. They were popular on German, Dutch and Italian domestic work. They’re use in international work primarily grew with the likes of Westerman, Peakes and Hungarocamion. The overall flexibility of the traditional artic meant it outnumbered wagon and drags by a conservative 10 to 1
.While I’d guess that Friderici or VIT might have given me a job based on my truck preferences and views on dodgy running practices.
Because you think they ran legal??
As Mr Bridger said to Camp Freddy “my dear boy, everybody is bent”
I was actually referring to drawbars in terms of both foreign domestic and cross border use combined v artics while Scandinavia was obviously included in that. As for flexibility given a demount rigid what’s the difference. While how many artic operators actually returned with a different trailer than the one they went out with.
As for Friderici I was referring more to their preferred choice of wagon in the day than running practices the former I knew about the latter who knows.
As for VIT I’m saying nothing but have it on extremely good authority that they ran whiter than white.
Even including all domestic and Scandinavian etc, the artic still grossly outnumbered drawbars.
A semi trailer can be shipped unaccompanied easier.
Dropped swapped and shunted easier
Repowered easier in a breakdown
It only requires one seal and therefore one set of customs documentation.
It can load longer loads like steel.
Tips/loads on one bay.
At the time offered a better weight payload.
The list goes on but above all the most important point being you can bobtail tonthe beach, bar or baghouse with ease while your trailer occupied just one bay at the groupage depot
I’m ■■■■■■■■ and moaning about your denial of events that actually happened. That’s all.
I am in favour of stricter enforcement of hours over here as I have nothing to fear from cheaper foreign competition, seeing as it’s a closed shop for all intents and purposes.
I believe it will weed out some of the deadwood and increase rates, both of which are good things.
newmercman:
I’m ■■■■■■■■ and moaning about your denial of events that actually happened. That’s all.
I am in favour of stricter enforcement of hours over here as I have nothing to fear from cheaper foreign competition, seeing as it’s a closed shop for all intents and purposes.
I believe it will weed out some of the deadwood and increase rates, both of which are good things.
I didn’t deny it I said that at best it was just a pointless silly juggling with or breaking up legal daily rest periods and calling that ‘one hit’.‘Or’ at worse actually trying to do such runs on a one hit basis.Either of which is obviously potentially bleedin dangerous either in terms of sleep deprivation or excessive speeds or a combination of both.All of which then resulted in the job being made worse for all concerned in the form of tachos,speed limiters and ever increasing tightening up of the hours and speed regime.
As for wanting the tightening of hours regs enforcement over there.What’s the difference between foreign or domestic competition if the ‘competition’ that you’re worried about is people taking the pish with hours regs to potentially dangerous levels ?.
Which ironically is a similar situation as we’re discussing here.IE a decent job being made more difficult with less freedom and flexibility because people can’t maintain a bit of self discipline.
What you fail to understand is that sometimes circumstances beyond your control dictated that you giddy up a bit to catch up, bad weather in the channel, a big queue on the steps, industrial action by the boats, customs or any Frenchman that got out of bed on the wrong side, a breakdown and a million other things could all hold you up, now you had a choice, make up for lost time or completely ■■■■ your week up, if you arrived in Italy on Tuesday afternoon you could forget all about clearing customs until the next morning and then you were almost guaranteed to be stuck until Friday for your reload, this then meant a turnaround in Dover or the yard to get back on track to your regular departure day, so you either got the job done, or you spent two days in Milan (or wherever) instead of at home with the wife and kids, or you missed a trip completely and lost money as a result.
There were also times when you did it because you had waited to run with a mate, helped a driver out with a breakdown, or even got on the ■■■■ when you shouldn’t have done and put yourself behind, or you just fancied getting home a day early or needed to for a personal commitment.
Very few drivers did it for the glory, yes we had fun while we did it when it was possible, but most of the time it was just work, you had a job to do and you got it done. When I was doing a Rome a week for 500quid in my pocket in the late 80s, early 90s I wouldn’t have got much more than half of that had I been running legal in the UK and I also had the luxury of not touching my wages as I made enough to live on all week from beer and baccy, for me that’s what it was all about, earning as much as I could and getting home as soon as I could.
switchlogic:
More waffle. Why do you ruin threads like this with your endless drivel? Do you get a kick out of driving everyone away and trying to make everything about you? You have precisely zero experience of what everyone has been talking about yet insist you know best and better than people who have actually done the work being talked about, all because you’ve done a bit of driving in the car in Europe. Give. It. A. Rest.
I think driving a car in Europe gave me enough real world knowledge to know that no one was ‘averaging’ around 100 kmh running to/from Southern Italy and it wouldn’t have made much difference even if they did.While running bent seems to have been more often a case of preferring a bent penny to a straight pound based on a liberal interpretation of a ‘one hit’ run.The result being where we are now with over regulation to suffocation point.
Late to reply but…but this line is a Carryfast classic!
One thing I often think is how good it would be to have had then the lorry I drive now! This truck cries out to be driven harder, faster, longer! But alas she goes to bed after my shift not to Dover
newmercman:
Same here Luke, I’ve only got a measly 500hp, but you could almost drive your 750hp monster around in my sleeper.
Ah bit you wouldn’t be needing the sleeper! Between ferries and dodgy running I’d sometimes not often not sleep in the truck bed from one week to the next! So I’d prefer the power, as crossing the Alps on the limiter at 40 tonnes (or more back then*)really does put a huge smile on ones face!
We’ve not spoken about weight, people took the ■■■■ with weight just as much. Most memorable is arriving at ferry- ‘we shouldn’t really ship you mate’ why says I? You weigh 51 tonnes! A load of hanging lambs so packed a forklift had to help shut the back doors! Tho I bet many of you can beat 51 tonnes really enough!
Mid 40s were about the heaviest I shipped out, mostly with bulk stuff like waste paper or lead, the day cab shunter would load it to the legal limit and then with a big unit under it and a load of diesel it would creep up a fair bit.
I hate to admit it here because Carryfast will shoot me down in flames over it, but I also drove a demount wagon and drag for an Italian firm, those swap bodies were loaded as only the Italians can load a lorry, the CMRs always made it look legal, but the way the 143 Scania handled, braked and went up hills told a very different story, I dread to think how heavy that was at times.
Carryfast:
I think driving a car in Europe gave me enough real world knowledge to know that no one was ‘averaging’ around 100 kmh running to/from Southern Italy and it wouldn’t have made much difference even if they did.
Late to reply but…but this line is a Carryfast classic!
You seem to have selectively missed the rest. I was specifically referring to kr’s etc comments such as 990 kms in 10 hours in which I don’t remember seeing trucks of any nationality running at those types of speeds on the continent even on the flat.Although even that still wouldn’t have made much difference regarding the sleep deprivation issue involved in trying to cover those type of distances in ‘one hit’.
Carryfast:
I think driving a car in Europe gave me enough real world knowledge to know that no one was ‘averaging’ around 100 kmh running to/from Southern Italy and it wouldn’t have made much difference even if they did.
Late to reply but…but this line is a Carryfast classic!
You seem to have selectively missed the rest. I was specifically referring to kr’s etc comments such as 990 kms in 10 hours in which I don’t remember seeing trucks of any nationality running at those types of speeds on the continent even on the flat.Although even that still wouldn’t have made much difference regarding the sleep deprivation issue involved in trying to cover those type of distances in ‘one hit’.
Selectively missing the rest…of course you’d never do that yourself
Sleep deprivation, how about Fishermen? Or Soldiers? Nurses? Doctors? Emergency Service Personnel? Parents with sick kids, or newborns? They all go without sleep for extended periods and what about insomniacs?
I said earlier that 6hrs sleep is normal for me, so that means 18hrs awake before I have to dig into my reserves, if I stay up a couple of hours past my bed time I can easily make Milan in one hit.
With a few snacks, drinks and an empty bottle I could, in theory, do it in the literal sense of one hit too. Where I drive now I can legally drive for 13hrs without any requirements to have a break and I have done just that more than once, a 1400km run to Edmonton can be done legally and there are many companies that do that every day. Three round trips one week, two the next. In Europe that would see you in prison, in Canada it’s just a day’s work.
Just for reference carry fast I was speaking from my time in Canada where running from the firm’s yard in winnipeg to texas it was quite easy to do the best part of 1000km in a shift as it’s fairly flat until you cross the texas line and not a lot of traffic most of the way.
I just meant I could do that in what you wouldn’t call one hit as I’d stop for dinner halfway through the day for an hour and feel ok when I parked up but after doing three loads on some of the busiest roads in the country I’m nackared after a 10 hour day
eddie snax:
I never felt that I was going excessively at 65mph-ish as all the other wagons running overnight were cracking on at similar speeds. So I counter that it was a few that spoiled it for the majority, more that the majority got what was coming, and had to accept that we may have been part of the reason that the party was bought to an early end
I don’t know if you’re saying that it was a few running regularly at more than 65 mph type speeds and/or ignoring the hours regs in a big way who in large part spoilt the party for the many which is what I’ve said.
Or the many who spoilt it for the few.
I meant that it was the majority who were speeding or fiddling to one degree or another, and as such “we” meaning the majority bought it on our selves, “it” being limiters and more advanced drivers hours recording devices.
So I agree with your assertion that the industry has been its own worst enemy, but I think you are wrong to say it was a few who were responsible, especially on the speeding and the introduction of the speed limiter as speeding was endemic
switchlogic:
More waffle. Why do you ruin threads like this with your endless drivel? Do you get a kick out of driving everyone away and trying to make everything about you? You have precisely zero experience of what everyone has been talking about yet insist you know best and better than people who have actually done the work being talked about, all because you’ve done a bit of driving in the car in Europe. Give. It. A. Rest.
I think driving a car in Europe gave me enough real world knowledge to know that no one was ‘averaging’ around 100 kmh running to/from Southern Italy and it wouldn’t have made much difference even if they did.While running bent seems to have been more often a case of preferring a bent penny to a straight pound based on a liberal interpretation of a ‘one hit’ run.The result being where we are now with over regulation to suffocation point.
Late to reply but…but this line is a Carryfast classic!
I can imagine carryfast stopped in some routers talking the talk with drivers the leave and climb in to there scania and volvos and carryfast fires up his Austin princess with a cb aerial.
As for flexibility given a demount rigid what’s the difference. 