This is going to be a long question and its just for me to understand the difference.
I have been trying to get my head around this and still would like to know what the implications are for working in two jobs ( l am not working at the mo and the is to see if i can work legally)
Here go’s
For this i am a Driver for 5 day, doing 12 hour shifts,and i start at 6.00 am every day when i work as a driver. my average driving time is 7 hours, other work 2 hours, POA 1.5 hour and brake 1.5 hours, (and for this question this is my daily work) my total work in the week is 45 hours but every other sat I work 6 hours for the same employer and do some driving of 5 hours and have 1 hour brake.
i have been offered bar work for Saturday and Sunday night starting at 5pm-11 pm
1 How many hour can work in week one for a other employer (for this we will say bar work) and still meet my weekly rest.
2 How may hours can i work in week two for other employer (bar work again) and still meet my weekly rest.
2 If the pub does not have a opt out can i do it.
4 If the pub has an out opt out how may days on each week can i do
4 And would the Sunday work be a no no or can i do this cos of EU regs
5 Also do i have to fill in a tacho IE start time and finish time.do i have to put bar work as well.
6 If i was stopped by vosa on a road side check and the tacho for the bar work were with the rest of the week can i be done for working those extra day under EU regs if i did not put any thing on to say what i was doing.
please note this is the best way i think i will understand this it is totally hypothetical jobs, but it may help me to understand
For a start you can’t do the Sunday bar shift at all as 23h00 Sunday to 06h00 Monday is only a 7 hour rest.
If you do the Saturday bar shift (17h00 to 23h00) on a weekend when you don’t do the Saturday driving shift then you have a rest of 23 hours (18h00 Friday to 17h00 Saturday) and another of 31 hours (23h00 Saturday to 06h00 Monday). The second of these breaks would count as a reduced weekly rest for the purposes of the tacho regs.
The legality of the Saturday bar shift on a weekend when you do do the Saturday driving shift depends on what the times of the driving shift are. If you start work before 08h00 then it can’t be done legally as you won’t get an 11h rest in the 24h period beginning at the start of that shift unless you can finish the bar work early (i.e. to make it 15h or less after starting the driving). Also in this case you are again as the previous example only getting a 31h weekly rest in.
As you can see, doing the bar work on a Saturday means regardless of is you’re driving Saturday or not you’re not getting a full (45 hour) weekly rest in, so at least every second week you’re going to have to not do either on a Saturday. At best you’re going to be able to do the Saturday bar shift every second week and even that depends on what time you start the driving job.
delboytwo:
For this i am a Driver for 5 day, doing 12 hour shifts,and i start at 6.00 am every day when i work as a driver. my average driving time is 7 hours, other work 2.5 hours, POA 1 hour and brake 1.5 hours, (and for this question this is my daily work) my total work in the week is 45 hours but every other sat I work 6 hours for the same employer and do some driving of 5 hours and have 1 hour brake
toal hours = 60
RTD hours = 47.5 hours
POA + Breaks = 12.5 hours
working every other saturday will leave you with a reduced weekly rest followed by a full weekly rest including the ‘catch up’ from the reduced weekly rest.
delboytwo:
i have been offered bar work for Saturday and Sunday night starting at 5pm-11 pm .
how can you - you cannot fit the weekly rest in
The rest of the question is now a no-goer.
PS - have noticed that doing every other saturday will also go over the average 48 hour WTD so sooner or later you will have to compensate for it.
delboytwo:
For this i am a Driver for 5 day, doing 12 hour shifts,and i start at 6.00 am every day when i work as a driver. my average driving time is 7 hours, other work 2.5 hours, POA 1 hour and brake 1.5 hours, (and for this question this is my daily work) my total work in the week is 45 hours but every other sat I work 6 hours for the same employer and do some driving of 5 hours and have 1 hour brake
toal hours = 60
RTD hours = 47.5 hours
POA + Breaks = 12.5 hours
working every other saturday will leave you with a reduced weekly rest followed by a full weekly rest including the ‘catch up’ from the reduced weekly rest.
delboytwo:
i have been offered bar work for Saturday and Sunday night starting at 5pm-11 pm .
how can you - you cannot fit the weekly rest in
The rest of the question is now a no-goer.
PS - have noticed that doing every other saturday will also go over the average 48 hour WTD so sooner or later you will have to compensate for it.
Hi Rog
thanks for noticing the .5 was a typo on the other work bit
ROG:
PS - have noticed that doing every other saturday will also go over the average 48 hour WTD so sooner or later you will have to compensate for it.
No he wouldn’t. He totals 45 hours work one week and 50 hours the next for his main employer which comes under the WTD for mobile workers. 50+ 45 = 95 / 2 =47.5 hours per week average, and that complies with the WTD for mobile workers. The bar work, should he decide to do it doesn’t count for the WTD for mobile workers so it will not increase that average.
However, as the bar work does count toward the tacho rules there is no legal way any bar work can be done, given the times outlined for his main work.
He can’t do it on the Saturday in the week he also drives on the Saturday if his Saturday start time is 06:00 as per the rest of the week.
He can’t do it on the Sunday of that week because there would not be enough rest before starting work on the Monday, only 7 hours.
He can’t do it at all on the weekend he doesn’t drive on the Saturday because he will require a regular weekly rest period having had a reduced rest the previous week. 45 hours from 18:00 Friday means he will have completed a weekly rest by 15:00 Sunday but cannot do the Sunday shift because of the not enough rest before resuming work Monday thing.
The only way I can see of making it legal to do one bar shift every 2 weeks is to do the Saturday driving shift and not start until 08:00, which means he could work to 23:00 that evening so fit in his 17:00 - 23:00 bar shift.
Alternatively he could do a bar shift from 15:00 - 21:00 on the Sunday of the week he doesn’t drive on the Saturday. Regular weekly rest from 18:00 Friday - 15:00 Sunday and 9 hours before resuming work Monday, leaving him clear to work his 12-hour shift.
He can’t do that in the same week as he drives on the Saturday as it would leave 18 hours reduced weekly rest to compensate for, assuming he drives 06:00 - 12:00 on the Saturday, and in a 5 day driving week he gets 60 hours weekly rest so would be 3 hours short on the compensation. If he does work those driving hours on the Saturday he gets a 42 hour weekly rest in, leaving 3 hours compensation which is covered by any of his normal 12 hour daily rest periods.
delboytwo:
For this i am a Driver for 5 day, doing 12 hour shifts,and i start at 6.00 am every day when i work as a driver. my average driving time is 7 hours, other work 2.5 hours, POA 1 hour and brake 1.5 hours, (and for this question this is my daily work) my total work in the week is 45 hours but every other sat I work 6 hours for the same employer and do some driving of 5 hours and have 1 hour brake
ROG:
toal hours = 60
RTD hours = 47.5 hours
POA + Breaks = 12.5 hours
working every other saturday will leave you with a reduced weekly rest followed by a full weekly rest including the ‘catch up’ from the reduced weekly rest.
PS - have noticed that doing every other saturday will also go over the average 48 hour WTD so sooner or later you will have to compensate for it.
Coffeeholic:
No he wouldn’t. He totals 45 hours work one week and 50 hours the next for his main employer which comes under the WTD for mobile workers. 50+ 45 = 95 / 2 =47.5 hours per week average, and that complies with the WTD for mobile workers.
Are you going off different figures than me
I got a daily 7 of driving + 2.5 of other work = 9.5 per day
9.5 X 5 days = 47.5
47.5 X 2 weeks = 95 hours
Then 6 every other saturday which = 101 hours divide by 2 weeks = average 51.5 per week
I got a daily 7 of driving + 2.5 of other work = 9.5 per day
9.5 X 5 days = 47.5
47.5 X 2 weeks = 95 hours
Then 6 every other saturday which = 101 hours divide by 2 weeks = average 51.5 per week
I went off these figures from first post
delboytwo:
For this i am a Driver for 5 day, doing 12 hour shifts,and i start at 6.00 am every day when i work as a driver. my average driving time is 7 hours, other work 2 hours, POA 1.5 hour and brake 1.5 hours, (and for this question this is my daily work) my total work in the week is 45 hours but every other sat I work 6 hours for the same employer and do some driving of 5 hours and have 1 hour brake.
delboytwo:
For this i am a Driver for 5 day, doing 12 hour shifts,and i start at 6.00 am every day when i work as a driver. my average driving time is 7 hours, other work 2.5 hours, POA 1 hour and brake 1.5 hours, (and for this question this is my daily work) my total work in the week is 45 hours but every other sat I work 6 hours for the same employer and do some driving of 5 hours and have 1 hour brake
ROG:
toal hours = 60
RTD hours = 47.5 hours
POA + Breaks = 12.5 hours
working every other saturday will leave you with a reduced weekly rest followed by a full weekly rest including the ‘catch up’ from the reduced weekly rest.
PS - have noticed that doing every other saturday will also go over the average 48 hour WTD so sooner or later you will have to compensate for it.
Coffeeholic:
No he wouldn’t. He totals 45 hours work one week and 50 hours the next for his main employer which comes under the WTD for mobile workers. 50+ 45 = 95 / 2 =47.5 hours per week average, and that complies with the WTD for mobile workers.
Are you going off different figures than me
I got a daily 7 of driving + 2.5 of other work = 9.5 per day
9.5 X 5 days = 47.5
47.5 X 2 weeks = 95 hours
Then 6 every other saturday which = 101 hours divide by 2 weeks = average 51.5 per week
Hi Rog i did edit the times in may first post cos on a typo
Coffeeholic:
I went off these figures from first post
delboytwo:
For this i am a Driver for 5 day, doing 12 hour shifts,and i start at 6.00 am every day when i work as a driver. my average driving time is 7 hours, other work 2 hours, POA 1.5 hour and brake 1.5 hours, (and for this question this is my daily work) my total work in the week is 45 hours but every other sat I work 6 hours for the same employer and do some driving of 5 hours and have 1 hour brake.
Based on those figures he is just short of the 48h WTD requirement (45h one week, 50h the next, averaging 47.5h). The bar work doesn’t count towards the wtd and so doesn’t change that.
so going on what you are saying if i what to work extra its best to only work every other weekend if my rest would not be affected and to what my start times.
also can i ask you this if i did one of the bar shifts, and filled a tacho in to account for the hours worked, do i have to put what i did, and if i was stopped by vosa and did not put on what i was doing on that day, would or could there count the hours as RTD for drivers
so going on what you are saying if i what to work extra its best to only work every other weekend if my rest would not be affected and to what my start times.
You can’t do a Sunday bar shift at all unless you can change it so you work 15:00 - 21:00 and only do it in the week you don’t drive on a Saturday. What are your start finish times on your Saturday driving days? That will determine whether you can do a shift at all or whether it is not possible to fit the bar work in
delboytwo:
also can i ask you this if i did one of the bar shifts, and filled a tacho in to account for the hours worked, do i have to put what i did, and if i was stopped by vosa and did not put on what i was doing on that day, would or could there count the hours as RTD for drivers
You only require your name, the date and the start/finish times. Just having those details, with for example no start and finish locations, would make it obvious it was for non transport related work so it shouldn’t be a problem
Thanks mate for that i think my little brain in my big head as got it now, it takes time to absorb things that IMO you need a law degree to make sense of all the regs that we have to deal with, and as i have only been driving lgv ce for 2 years and were never told about thing like the RTD by my last employer had to read up on it, but some time reading the regs is not enough it understanding them as well
once again thanks
PS would like to thank others for the contribution
- you cannot fit the weekly rest in 
as got it now, it takes time to absorb things that IMO you need a law degree to make sense of all the regs that we have to deal with, and as i have only been driving lgv ce for 2 years and were never told about thing like the RTD by my last employer had to read up on it, but some time reading the regs is not enough it understanding them as well