RTD (WTD) v EU hours week conflict

Does anybody know why there is a conflict between definition of a week for driving purposes and the RTD/WTD version?

The issue for me was ‘a week’. Now the weekly restriction is 60 hours but that is based on the fixed week which I presume is Mon 00:00 to Sun 23:59. However as we all know you can have a different week which could in theory be a period of 6 daily work periods say Wed to Mon.

Now even though you comply with the 60 hours in your Wed to Mon week you can fall foul of RTD/WTD if the previous working week on the Monday together with what you did Wed to Sun exceeded 60 hours. That is bonkers, compounded in this case by a client saying don’t use POA even though one was sat in a canteen for large amounts of time awaiting something to do. From Wed to Sun, the Sun being the last day of work in this instance a total of 50h 56m was worked, the Tue being a reduced weekly rest day, however Tachomaster wants to include the Monday of the previous week so takes the total up to 60h 57m.

I am just curious to know how the hell is one supposed to work within that system when you don’t when you turn up how much ‘delay’ one might encounter even though the driving. tipping, messing about time could be reasonably guessed at.

I have always said that there is no need for the fixed week rules as everything could be fitted into ‘between weekly rest’ rules

Another fine example of…

The total fudgepack the WTD and driver hours regs have become.

Along with POA and the dcpc the whole sad and sorry mess needs a complete overhaul.

Sand Fisher:
compounded in this case by a client saying don’t use POA

Then comply with his wishes - and put it on break instead :stuck_out_tongue:

Stanley Knife:

Sand Fisher:
compounded in this case by a client saying don’t use POA

Then comply with his wishes - and put it on break instead :stuck_out_tongue:

No they actualy said put it on other work!

They cannot legally tell a driver to do anything in regards to what is recorded - that is for the driver to decide

ROG:
They cannot legally tell a driver to do anything in regards to what is recorded - that is for the driver to decide

I agree with you. But to keep the piece that week…

Having looked at their notices I think they were getting a tad confused with people ‘over booking’ a break(s).

Sand Fisher:

ROG:
They cannot legally tell a driver to do anything in regards to what is recorded - that is for the driver to decide

Having looked at their notices I think they were getting a tad confused with people ‘over booking’ a break(s).

How can you over book, breaks!!

Must be a faceless, pointy shoe controlled, multi-national…

Sand Fisher:
Does anybody know why there is a conflict between definition of a week for driving purposes and the RTD/WTD version?

The issue for me was ‘a week’. Now the weekly restriction is 60 hours but that is based on the fixed week which I presume is Mon 00:00 to Sun 23:59. However as we all know you can have a different week which could in theory be a period of 6 daily work periods say Wed to Mon.

Now even though you comply with the 60 hours in your Wed to Mon week you can fall foul of RTD/WTD if the previous working week on the Monday together with what you did Wed to Sun exceeded 60 hours. That is bonkers, compounded in this case by a client saying don’t use POA even though one was sat in a canteen for large amounts of time awaiting something to do. From Wed to Sun, the Sun being the last day of work in this instance a total of 50h 56m was worked, the Tue being a reduced weekly rest day, however Tachomaster wants to include the Monday of the previous week so takes the total up to 60h 57m.

I am just curious to know how the hell is one supposed to work within that system when you don’t when you turn up how much ‘delay’ one might encounter even though the driving. tipping, messing about time could be reasonably guessed at.

The use of the fixed week is basically a compromise to prevent the 60 hour a week limit being reset early but without using a more complex (and even more restrictive) 7-day rolling calculation.

Conceivably, there can be up to 14.25 hours work each day. The fixed week prevents you doing 4 of those starting Monday, taking a single day off as weekly rest on Friday, and then doing another two of them (for a total of 85.5 hours work in a fixed week).

Also, if you try to back-to-back the fixed weeks (so that conceivably you could do 85.5 hours in a rolling 7 days, if it straddles the weekend), you can’t do the exact same pattern the following week, so it still stops employers getting into any sort of 4-on-1-off-4-on-2-off rhythm of using drivers in that manner.

If you don’t know how much delay you might encounter, the law says you should build in a larger margin of error to account for a poorly organised customer who is unpredictable in their delays, and therefore plan to work fewer hours than the maximum if things go smoothly.

Also, the advice you’ve had on POA seems correct. If you’re sat in a canteen waiting for further instructions at any moment (rather than just sitting out a known period of delay), then that is working time not POA.