. . . or not?
Had a bit of a “sqealling noise” lately when braking in the ole Vectra.
Thought it would be just brake dust,so i took the osf wheel of this morning to investigate and found that one of the brake pads was breaking up 
As it was raining,i didnt fancy changing them meself,so rang a couple of places and the cheapest quote was £95 
Bought a set of front pads and wear indicators from a local motor factors for the princely
sum of £34 and it took me just over an hour.
Yes i did get sopping wet but if i had the benefit of a ramp i could of probably have had the job done in half the time !!
Whats the labour charges in these places nowadays ffs?
about 60 quid an hour. they cost more than lawyers!
mucker85:
about 60 quid an hour. they cost more than lawyers!
I bloody well wish, last time I needed a lawyer she was on £125 p/h with a £500 retainer. She was bloody good though, and those legs…
Suedehead:
. . . or not?
Had a bit of a “sqealling noise” lately when braking in the ole Vectra.
Thought it would be just brake dust,so i took the osf wheel of this morning to investigate and found that one of the brake pads was breaking up
As it was raining,i didnt fancy changing them meself,so rang a couple of places and the cheapest quote was £95
Bought a set of front pads and wear indicators from a local motor factors for the princely
sum of £34 and it took me just over an hour.
Yes i did get sopping wet but if i had the benefit of a ramp i could of probably have had the job done in half the time !!
Whats the labour charges in these places nowadays ffs?
Arse spanking.
Inner and outer rear pads and a pair of front springs (the whole lot at they come as a full unit) supplied and fitted on an 04 Vectra, £195 including them picking the car up from work and dropping it off 
Suedehead:
. . . or not?
Had a bit of a “sqealling noise” lately when braking in the ole Vectra.
Thought it would be just brake dust,so i took the osf wheel of this morning to investigate and found that one of the brake pads was breaking up
As it was raining,i didnt fancy changing them meself,so rang a couple of places and the cheapest quote was £95
Bought a set of front pads and wear indicators from a local motor factors for the princely
sum of £34 and it took me just over an hour.
Yes i did get sopping wet but if i had the benefit of a ramp i could of probably have had the job done in half the time !!
Whats the labour charges in these places nowadays ffs?
can’t see the logic in that one, you drive the car up the ramp, how you going to get the wheel off? 
shuttlespanker:
Suedehead:
. . . or not?
Had a bit of a “sqealling noise” lately when braking in the ole Vectra.
Thought it would be just brake dust,so i took the osf wheel of this morning to investigate and found that one of the brake pads was breaking up
As it was raining,i didnt fancy changing them meself,so rang a couple of places and the cheapest quote was £95
Bought a set of front pads and wear indicators from a local motor factors for the princely
sum of £34 and it took me just over an hour.
Yes i did get sopping wet but if i had the benefit of a ramp i could of probably have had the job done in half the time !!
Whats the labour charges in these places nowadays ffs?can’t see the logic in that one, you drive the car up the ramp, how you going to get the wheel off?
Four poster ramps have either a jacking beam from one side to the other or two long beams from front to back which you lock in and then lower the ramps leaving the wheels free. 2 post ramps lift on jacking points and always leave the wheels free. Bet you were thinking of those little DIY drive-up ramps that aren’t much cop for anything other than a clutch or gearbox job.
DoYouMeanMe?:
shuttlespanker:
Suedehead:
. . . or not?
Had a bit of a “sqealling noise” lately when braking in the ole Vectra.
Thought it would be just brake dust,so i took the osf wheel of this morning to investigate and found that one of the brake pads was breaking up
As it was raining,i didnt fancy changing them meself,so rang a couple of places and the cheapest quote was £95
Bought a set of front pads and wear indicators from a local motor factors for the princely
sum of £34 and it took me just over an hour.
Yes i did get sopping wet but if i had the benefit of a ramp i could of probably have had the job done in half the time !!
Whats the labour charges in these places nowadays ffs?can’t see the logic in that one, you drive the car up the ramp, how you going to get the wheel off?
Four poster ramps have either a jacking beam from one side to the other or two long beams from front to back which you lock in and then lower the ramps leaving the wheels free. 2 post ramps lift on jacking points and always leave the wheels free. Bet you were thinking of those little DIY drive-up ramps that aren’t much cop for anything other than a clutch or gearbox job.
to me, they are not ramps, they are vehicle lifts
yes, there is a difference
shuttlespanker:
DoYouMeanMe?:
shuttlespanker:
Suedehead:
. . . or not?
Had a bit of a “sqealling noise” lately when braking in the ole Vectra.
Thought it would be just brake dust,so i took the osf wheel of this morning to investigate and found that one of the brake pads was breaking up
As it was raining,i didnt fancy changing them meself,so rang a couple of places and the cheapest quote was £95
Bought a set of front pads and wear indicators from a local motor factors for the princely
sum of £34 and it took me just over an hour.
Yes i did get sopping wet but if i had the benefit of a ramp i could of probably have had the job done in half the time !!
Whats the labour charges in these places nowadays ffs?can’t see the logic in that one, you drive the car up the ramp, how you going to get the wheel off?
Four poster ramps have either a jacking beam from one side to the other or two long beams from front to back which you lock in and then lower the ramps leaving the wheels free. 2 post ramps lift on jacking points and always leave the wheels free. Bet you were thinking of those little DIY drive-up ramps that aren’t much cop for anything other than a clutch or gearbox job.
to me, they are not ramps, they are vehicle lifts
yes, there is a difference
I have yet to hear the words ‘Vehicle lifts’ used in a garage, always a ‘Ramp’ 
shuttlespanker:
Suedehead:
. . . or not?
Had a bit of a “sqealling noise” lately when braking in the ole Vectra.
Thought it would be just brake dust,so i took the osf wheel of this morning to investigate and found that one of the brake pads was breaking up
As it was raining,i didnt fancy changing them meself,so rang a couple of places and the cheapest quote was £95
Bought a set of front pads and wear indicators from a local motor factors for the princely
sum of £34 and it took me just over an hour.
Yes i did get sopping wet but if i had the benefit of a ramp i could of probably have had the job done in half the time !!
Whats the labour charges in these places nowadays ffs?can’t see the logic in that one, you drive the car up the ramp, how you going to get the wheel off?
Sounds like i should have said “vehicle lift” 
sorry 
The point i was trying to make was that, in a workshop they could have probably done the job in less than half the time it took me . . . using a trolley jack on the drive.
Suedehead:
shuttlespanker:
Suedehead:
. . . or not?
Had a bit of a “sqealling noise” lately when braking in the ole Vectra.
Thought it would be just brake dust,so i took the osf wheel of this morning to investigate and found that one of the brake pads was breaking up
As it was raining,i didnt fancy changing them meself,so rang a couple of places and the cheapest quote was £95
Bought a set of front pads and wear indicators from a local motor factors for the princely
sum of £34 and it took me just over an hour.
Yes i did get sopping wet but if i had the benefit of a ramp i could of probably have had the job done in half the time !!
Whats the labour charges in these places nowadays ffs?can’t see the logic in that one, you drive the car up the ramp, how you going to get the wheel off?
Sounds like i should have said “vehicle lift”
The point i was trying to make was that, in a workshop they could have probably done the job in less than half the time it took me . . . using a trolley jack on the drive.
don’t take it as criticism, but, i could have done the brakes on both wheels using a trolley jack and the tools that come with the car in less than half the time
shuttlespanker:
Suedehead:
shuttlespanker:
Suedehead:
. . . or not?
Had a bit of a “sqealling noise” lately when braking in the ole Vectra.
Thought it would be just brake dust,so i took the osf wheel of this morning to investigate and found that one of the brake pads was breaking up
As it was raining,i didnt fancy changing them meself,so rang a couple of places and the cheapest quote was £95
Bought a set of front pads and wear indicators from a local motor factors for the princely
sum of £34 and it took me just over an hour.
Yes i did get sopping wet but if i had the benefit of a ramp i could of probably have had the job done in half the time !!
Whats the labour charges in these places nowadays ffs?can’t see the logic in that one, you drive the car up the ramp, how you going to get the wheel off?
Sounds like i should have said “vehicle lift”
The point i was trying to make was that, in a workshop they could have probably done the job in less than half the time it took me . . . using a trolley jack on the drive.don’t take it as criticism, but, i could have done the brakes on both wheels using a trolley jack and the tools that come with the car in less than half the time
And charged me £95 no doubt 
Vectras dont come supplied with Allen keys btw
To be honest I think 95 quid is a decent price considering. Remember a garage has overheads, so taking the cost away from the £95 doesn’t just leave a nice big profit …
Firstly, the garage is almost certainly VAT registered, so the £95 becomes £79 as soon as the VAT-man has had his cut.
Next, desipite the fact that you think it could be done in half the time with a ramp, it will actually take the garage about the same time to do the job that you will. You see, the mechanic has to… Go out into the yard, drive your car into the workshop, get it positioned properly on the ramp, remove the road wheels, inspect the brakes to confirm the diganosis (he can’t just take your word for it), remove the calipers (and from experience I know they can be a pain in the arse on Vectras), pop the bonnet and take the brake fluid cap off (which probably involves dropping the ramp back down and lifting it again), push the pistons back (vectras need a tool to do the job properly IIRC), clean up the calipers and mounts with a wire brush and brake cleaner, fit the new pads with a bit of copper grease, refit the calipers, refit the road wheels, drop the ramp down, refit the brake fluid cap after checking the fluid level and water content, torque the wheelnuts (and probably have them double checked by someone else), road-test the car (and maybe even put it on the brake rollers if they are free), park it back up outside and fill out the job card.
That is all going to take at least an hour if done properly and there are no hiccups such as sheared bolts or lost locking wheelnut keys, and doesn’t include bleeding the brakes which is sometimes necessary even with a pad change.
Also even at average wages a mechanic ‘costs’ around 15 quid an hour to have on the premises by the time you take into account national insurance, holiday pay and occasional training. So assuming the mechanic doesn’t ■■■■ aroundh and gets the job done in an hour (which would be tight) from the £79 you now have £64, and removing the cost of the parts leaves you roughly £30 quid.
Now, you have the fixed overheads and capital costs to take away from this …
Rent, Business Rates, Water, Electricity, Heating, Phones, Premises Insurance, Public Liability Insurance, Employers Liability Insurance, Road-Risks trade insurance (the cost of this woud make your eyes water!), tools, equipment … the list goes on!
Even assuming you apportion the fixed costs across an 8 hour working day, the profit figures don’t look that rosy! But the reality is that no garage gets a 100% billable utilisation from the mechanics, any garage which manages to bill 6 hours out of 8 has a very busy workshop!
To cut a long story short, if you were charging £50 an hour for labour, you would be lucky to have £5-£8 left after everything is paid for.
Gogan:
To be honest I think 95 quid is a decent price considering. Remember a garage has overheads, so taking the cost away from the £95 doesn’t just leave a nice big profit …Firstly, the garage is almost certainly VAT registered, so the £95 becomes £79 as soon as the VAT-man has had his cut.
Next, desipite the fact that you think it could be done in half the time with a ramp, it will actually take the garage about the same time to do the job that you will. You see, the mechanic has to… Go out into the yard, drive your car into the workshop, get it positioned properly on the ramp, remove the road wheels, inspect the brakes to confirm the diganosis (he can’t just take your word for it), remove the calipers (and from experience I know they can be a pain in the arse on Vectras), pop the bonnet and take the brake fluid cap off (which probably involves dropping the ramp back down and lifting it again), push the pistons back (vectras need a tool to do the job properly IIRC), clean up the calipers and mounts with a wire brush and brake cleaner, fit the new pads with a bit of copper grease, refit the calipers, refit the road wheels, drop the ramp down, refit the brake fluid cap after checking the fluid level and water content, torque the wheelnuts (and probably have them double checked by someone else), road-test the car (and maybe even put it on the brake rollers if they are free), park it back up outside and fill out the job card.
That is all going to take at least an hour if done properly and there are no hiccups such as sheared bolts or lost locking wheelnut keys, and doesn’t include bleeding the brakes which is sometimes necessary even with a pad change.
Also even at average wages a mechanic ‘costs’ around 15 quid an hour to have on the premises by the time you take into account national insurance, holiday pay and occasional training. So assuming the mechanic doesn’t ■■■■ aroundh and gets the job done in an hour (which would be tight) from the £79 you now have £64, and removing the cost of the parts leaves you roughly £30 quid.
Now, you have the fixed overheads and capital costs to take away from this …
Rent, Business Rates, Water, Electricity, Heating, Phones, Premises Insurance, Public Liability Insurance, Employers Liability Insurance, Road-Risks trade insurance (the cost of this woud make your eyes water!), tools, equipment … the list goes on!
Even assuming you apportion the fixed costs across an 8 hour working day, the profit figures don’t look that rosy! But the reality is that no garage gets a 100% billable utilisation from the mechanics, any garage which manages to bill 6 hours out of 8 has a very busy workshop!
To cut a long story short, if you were charging £50 an hour for labour, you would be lucky to have £5-£8 left after everything is paid for.
so, how come a HGV mechanic, in a fully kitted out workshop, can charge me £30 per hour?
shuttlespanker:
so, how come a HGV mechanic, in a fully kitted out workshop, can charge me £30 per hour?
I assume that is before VAT, and that he is a one mand band. In which case it’s no different to my example quoted above other than you are saving part of the wages cost by virtue of profit and wages being the same thing in this case, do the maths.
It’s just a variation on the difference between the cost base of an O/D vs a large haulier, the O/D will usually be able to do the work for less and still make a margin on it! Also, just like in the world of haulage, it’s easy for a workshop to be full of busy fools.
Gogan:
shuttlespanker:
so, how come a HGV mechanic, in a fully kitted out workshop, can charge me £30 per hour?I assume that is before VAT, and that he is a one mand band. In which case it’s no different to my example quoted above other than you are saving part of the wages cost by virtue of profit and wages being the same thing in this case, do the maths.
It’s just a variation on the difference between the cost base of an O/D vs a large haulier, the O/D will usually be able to do the work for less and still make a margin on it! Also, just like in the world of haulage, it’s easy for a workshop to be full of busy fools.
you are correct with the point that it is before VAT, but incorrect on the ‘one man band’ part, he employs 2 other fitters, and as such, still has their wages, tax and NI to pay
and why the sarcastic smillie?
do you not like it when others question your maths?
shuttlespanker:
you are correct with the point that it is before VAT, but incorrect on the ‘one man band’ part, he employs 2 other fitters, and as such, still has their wages, tax and NI to pay
Then I can only assume that in your area £30 an hour is the going rate and all he can get, and to be honest I can’t see how it’s worth it at. But fair play to the guy if he can make it work.
shuttlespanker:
and why the sarcastic smillie?
I do apologise if you feel offended, but in fairness you asked a totally open ended question with countless possible answers and didn’t offer any sort of indication that you had attempted to answer the question for yourself.
shuttlespanker:
do you not like it when others question your maths?
Quite the opposite, I thrive on a good debate, regadless of the outcome.
Gogan:
shuttlespanker:
you are correct with the point that it is before VAT, but incorrect on the ‘one man band’ part, he employs 2 other fitters, and as such, still has their wages, tax and NI to payThen I can only assume that in your area £30 an hour is the going rate and all he can get, and to be honest I can’t see how it’s worth it at. But fair play to the guy if he can make it work.
my local DAF main dealer want to charge me £79 +VAT per hour, i also have a mobile mechanic that charges £30 per hour (no VAT)
shuttlespanker:
and why the sarcastic smillie?I do apologise if you feel offended, but in fairness you asked a totally open ended question with countless possible answers and didn’t offer any sort of indication that you had attempted to answer the question for yourself.
No offence taken, just asked why the sarcasm
shuttlespanker:
do you not like it when others question your maths?Quite the opposite, I thrive on a good debate, regadless of the outcome.
me too
i can see that we will get along with some lively debates, unlike another ■■■■■ (who shall remain nameless) on here that gets the hump and starts slagging you off if you question his posts
not saying that you are a ■■■■■ of course, just a figure of speech
shuttlespanker:
i can see that we will get along with some lively debates, unlike another ■■■■■ (who shall remain nameless) on here that gets the hump and starts slagging you off if you question his posts
I look forward to it. 
shuttlespanker:
not saying that you are a ■■■■■ of course, just a figure of speech
Working at £30ph in a fully kitted workshop is working way below what he should be charging. Take into consideration his rent (even if he owns the premises, he should still take this into account because he would get it if he rented it out), rates, annual testing (of ramps(lifts), jacks, pac testing, compressor etc), re-calibrations, then add in his wage bills with holiday pay, employers contributions, all the various insurances and all the rest. Three mechanics will need an office girl to order parts, contact customers, write bills, chase payments etc and sort out the bollox the suppliers make when returned parts are not credited etc, none productive but cheaper than the mechanics doing it.
Many haulage companies I know of do a bit of a repair service for outside and think they are doing OK at this figure, but when you actualy go through the maths for doing car repairs, you struggle to make it pay at this rate.
The last time I had to do a full £££’s inventory for my insurance, I had something like 38K of special tools in my box/roll cab, that doesn’t include the normal spanners/tools or many of the things you don’t carry all the time such as pullers, water pressure testers and exhaust gas testers. These prices have well over doubled since I bought most of them and now we can add another 7K for code readers and ecu scanners.
I know it sounds a lot, but also remember you will have far less hours spent working you can bill for. As an example, when a guy calls in and wants you to listen to his motor and tell him what it’s going to cost to repair it. You spend 20 mins listening to him, 10 mins in the motor, another 10 mins explaining it really is X that’s worn even though his ace mechanic pub mate assures him it’s a part that costs 20p and another 10 mins getting prices and then after all that, you may get the job. Best part of an hour gone and you’ve earnt nowt, but it is all part of being a local garage. I’ve had a garage for over 25 yrs and know pretty well what returns you need. I’m not saying it can’t be done for that, but it’s just making the wages and the purpose of running a company is to make a profit.
It’s like the haulage side of things, you know yourselves that some folk are doing runs for less than the derv and drivers wage. We all wonder how and why, but it will always carry on. One mate was telling me only yesterday about a job he’d priced up last month and the guy say he can get it done for less than half, we went through it again and you can’t do the job in a transit for what he’s pay, but some idiot took a 44T for that!
mucker85:
about 60 quid an hour. they cost more than lawyers!
Spend £60 an hour on a lawyer and I’m afraid to say you’ll lose…