adam277:
To echo Switchlogic.
As someone who has actually driven in the last 20 years.
Both Tesco and Co-op that I worked with in the last year or two both shunt lorries around the yard without a tacho card inserted.
I also believe both have FORS Gold accreditation.
I’ve also noticed at times when drivers have asked shunters for help to park a lorry. They never removed the card.
In the real world the DVSA dont care, they got bigger fish to fry.
Spot on. They already have plenty to do without fiddling with nonsense like this. In my experience a lot of DVSA officers do it because they are serious about road safety, not obsessed with cracking down on every tiny infringement.
switchlogic:
No, there’s a difference between not enforceable and unlikely to be discovered. You do know that DVSA don’t follow every company every minute right? Most green light companies will go years between checks. So how do you think someone moving a truck in the yard for a minute is ever going to be discovered and why do you think it’s a big drama? You’ve lived too long in the fantasy world in your head chap, some of us live in the real world where in reality doing something like this no one really gives the first s**** about
Yep fish to fry like ‘enforcing’ the driving off road still means driving just like on road rule.
They’ve got all the time in the world to do it but for the driver who gets caught once is more than enough and all it takes for a fasle record charge.
I wasn’t referring to shunters shunting numerous vehicles you know like shunters do.
I was referring to the specific situation whereby a false driving time and vehicle record could be construed especially in the case of tight schedules leaving very little room for error on arrival.
As you say DSA ain’t stupid and they understand that difference.The OP’s example was clearly one of those cases not a shunter doing his job.
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
No, there’s a difference between not enforceable and unlikely to be discovered. You do know that DVSA don’t follow every company every minute right? Most green light companies will go years between checks. So how do you think someone moving a truck in the yard for a minute is ever going to be discovered and why do you think it’s a big drama? You’ve lived too long in the fantasy world in your head chap, some of us live in the real world where in reality doing something like this no one really gives the first s**** about
Yep fish to fry like ‘enforcing’ the driving off road still means driving just like on road rule.
They’ve got all the time in the world to do it but for the driver who gets caught once is more than enough and all it takes for a fasle record charge.
I wasn’t referring to shunters shunting numerous vehicles you know like shunters do.
I was referring to the specific situation whereby a false driving time and vehicle record could be construed especially in the case of tight schedules leaving very little room for error on arrival.
As you say DSA ain’t stupid and they understand that difference.The OP’s example was clearly one of those cases not a shunter doing his job.
No, you’ve done what you ALWAYS do. Taken a post, read it, then invent an entire new scenario for you to get on your high horse about. The rest of us were answering the post as it’s written, not what you’ve entirely made up.
src:
a colleague B has got his truck …
He claims an offence is committed.
The drivers’ point of view is it is “off-road” and is a strictly limited manoeuvre to avoid damage and help a colleague.
Where do the drivers stand?
What would DVSA say?
He claims an offence is committed. - technically yes
Where do the drivers stand? - it’s not worth stressing about. It would take someone reporting it to the authorities and if a green light operator a slap on wrist and possibly a check
What would DVSA say? - if they ever found out not a lot. Recording 1/2 minutes of driving incorrectly is hardly the end of the world
Im yet to do a job where schedules are so tight 2 minutes makes a difference and if I were I’d be looking for a new on
I bet you were the type that restarted 45 minutes breaks because someone disturbed you .
switchlogic:
No, you’ve done what you ALWAYS do. Taken a post, read it, then invent an entire new scenario for you to get on your high horse about. The rest of us were answering the post as it’s written, not what you’ve entirely made up.
src:
a colleague B has got his truck …
He claims an offence is committed.
The drivers’ point of view is it is “off-road” and is a strictly limited manoeuvre to avoid damage and help a colleague.
Where do the drivers stand?
What would DVSA say?
He claims an offence is committed. - technically yes
Where do the drivers stand? - it’s not worth stressing about. It would take someone reporting it to the authorities and if a green light operator a slap on wrist and possibly a check
What would DVSA say? - if they ever found out not a lot. Recording 1/2 minutes of driving incorrectly is hardly the end of the world
Im yet to do a job where schedules are so tight 2 minutes makes a difference and if I were I’d be looking for a new on
I bet you were the type that restarted 45 minutes breaks because someone disturbed you .
It’s obvious that the question has been asked based on the incorrect premise that driving off road ain’t exactly the same thing as driving on road.In the case of driving someone else’s truck on their tacho card/chart while your tacho is sitting in your truck recording something totally different.2 minutes might as well be 2 hours.
Carryfast:
2 minutes might as well be 2 hours.
Says the man who’s probably never even met a DVSA officer let alone been through a checkpoint in last 2 decades…top tip from someone who has- they won’t give a s h 1 t
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
No, you’ve done what you ALWAYS do. Taken a post, read it, then invent an entire new scenario for you to get on your high horse about. The rest of us were answering the post as it’s written, not what you’ve entirely made up.
src:
a colleague B has got his truck …
He claims an offence is committed.
The drivers’ point of view is it is “off-road” and is a strictly limited manoeuvre to avoid damage and help a colleague.
Where do the drivers stand?
What would DVSA say?
He claims an offence is committed. - technically yes
Where do the drivers stand? - it’s not worth stressing about. It would take someone reporting it to the authorities and if a green light operator a slap on wrist and possibly a check
What would DVSA say? - if they ever found out not a lot. Recording 1/2 minutes of driving incorrectly is hardly the end of the world
Im yet to do a job where schedules are so tight 2 minutes makes a difference and if I were I’d be looking for a new on
I bet you were the type that restarted 45 minutes breaks because someone disturbed you .
It’s obvious that the question has been asked based on the incorrect premise that driving off road ain’t exactly the same thing as driving on road.In the case of driving someone else’s truck on their tacho card/chart while your tacho is sitting in your truck recording something totally different.2 minutes might as well be 2 hours.
2 minutes may as well be 2 hours…
Not really.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Monkey241:
2 minutes may as well be 2 hours…
Not really.
Yes really when the offence is that of creating a false record.The clue is in the name ‘false’ the record won’t then be accepted as being accurate.Effectively it’s a false record offence until/unless proven innocent.
You don’t drive anything anywhere, even across the yard, on anyone else’s card/chart, especially while your own is recording something else in a different vehicle.It’s not rocket science.
As I said it reads like the OP is asking in a round about way does driving off road count as driving time as if on the road.
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
As I said it reads like the OP is asking in a round about way does driving off road count as driving time as if on the road.
Go back and read the o/p CF. Firstly he used the term “hypothetical “, secondly the scenario was reversing a lorry a few feet. Hopefully that helps my friend.
Carryfast:
Monkey241:
2 minutes may as well be 2 hours…
Not really.
Yes really when the offence is that of creating a false record.The clue is in the name ‘false’ the record won’t then be accepted as being accurate.Effectively it’s a false record offence until/unless proven innocent.
You don’t drive anything anywhere, even across the yard, on anyone else’s card/chart, especially while your own is recording something else in a different vehicle.It’s not rocket science.
As I said it reads like the OP is asking in a round about way does driving off road count as driving time as if on the road.
I think you’ll find that severity of offence is always part of deciding the punishment…or if indeed there will be one.
Laying your hand on my arm uninvited is just as much an assault as punching me as hard as you can in the face.
The law can deal with both… and has done but in the former example its comparatively rare (a copper 9 times out of 10 will laugh at an attempt to press charges) and the punishment won’t match that given in the second example
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Any offence charged should be proportionate to the transgression or harm caused.
Creating a false record is more aimed at deliberate fraud type offences…
I’d suggest that creating a false record would be deemed as disproportionate in the circumstances and outside the spirit of the law.
It’d be like charging all speeding offences as driving without due care.
I’m happy for any examples of such an offence being charged in similar circumstances to be given…
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Ive just had a great idea for a tv/YouTube show- Judge Geoffrey. ‘All rise for Judge Carryfasts verdict’. The USP the the verdict is always guilty with the a mad sentence. ‘For the heinous crime of 2 minutes over with card I’m another lorry I sentence you to 18 months prison and banned from driving for life’
the maoster:
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
As I said it reads like the OP is asking in a round about way does driving off road count as driving time as if on the road.
Go back and read the o/p CF. Firstly he used the term “hypothetical “, secondly the scenario was reversing a lorry a few feet. Hopefully that helps my friend.
Go back and read bigriffin’s answer.
We both suspect that it’s anything but a ‘hypothetical’ question except I don’t think it’s from manager’s ( correct ) side of the argument.
Why was the OP so keen to big up the ‘off road’ angle when it’s absolutely no different to on road in this case.
You really don’t want to be moving a truck anywhere with someone ele’s tacho in it and yours in a different truck recording something different.It’s a red light situation inviting a serious nick.On that note I’ve often waited for ages at the yard fuel pump waiting for the driver of the truck already on it to come back to it from the office, or bogs, or canteen and take it off the pump and park it up a matter of feet away.For just one example.I could easily have done it myself and got finished a bit sooner.
switchlogic:
Ive just had a great idea for a tv/YouTube show- Judge Geoffrey. ‘All rise for Judge Carryfasts verdict’. The USP the the verdict is always guilty with the a mad sentence. ‘For the heinous crime of 2 minutes over with card I’m another lorry I sentence you to 18 months prison and banned from driving for life’
400 years and 500 lashes contempt that’s another 100 years.
youtube.com/watch?v=PF3CGENBhn0
Seriously if the question was does off road make any difference the answer is no. 