Retaining straps, trapped?

[juddian]

Whilst unloading me tanker this morning (well standing there with me hands in me pockets whilst it did itself cor phew got a sweat on just watching it ) i watched a lad with a curtain sider unload, he had heavy pallets on so each pallet was restrained properly, fortunately this place is not busy and has sensible H&S and the driver was able to sort his straps out whilst the forky did the business.

It got me wondering how you lads on curtain siders manage when you have to load at sites where you’re not allowed near the vehicle whilst loading is going on…how do you sort your straps, if you have a high load you really need to site them after each pallet goes on…what do you do to get the straps along the load if the pallets are say 6ft high?

I know its always been a bit of a problem, but worse now that every load is supposed to be restrained, and so many places won’t allow the driver to be in the vicinity of loading.

[saaamon]

If its near the roof like you say and your not allowed near the truck you can’t strap it, its simple as that. When you say it has to be strapped they just turn round and say, “well the other driver don’t strap it”. Luckly I’ve got boards which isn’t the solution but better than nothing.

[farnboroughboy11]

I strap down whilst being loaded, if they are strict then i wait until hes finished, if then im told i cant strap down where i am i move somewhere else in the yard where its ok, i do my best to keep the piece and come to a compromise, but even if then im told i cant strap down on site i throw my toys out of the pram and do it anyway.

[chester]

I hope the jobs I get sent to are like in the original post, as when I cant do the job legally or safely I get sent home on full pay. Obviously I ask for straps and restraints and if I dont get them then the load dont go. TM usually says our drivers dont strap them, where I then produce a copy of the VOSA load matrix, thats where the discussion ends and I go home cheers easy.

just to edit This is whilst on agency work.

[juddian]

Sounds like there’s not been much co-operation or discussion then at some places so far, i suppose as usual it’ll carry on a muddle till some poor innocent bugger gets seriously hurt or killed by a lost load and the finger gets pointed at the RDC who made it nigh on impossible for the driver to secure his load correctly during loading by preventing access…then a almight knee jerk reaction when RDC management find themselves liable.

The cynic in my reckons the result will be more bloody boxes to tick to absolve those ultimately responsible, and still no constructive help.

[waynedl]

TBH, I can’t be arsed.

We’ve only got those crappy internal straps and load bearing curtains, half the straps / ratchets on both are knackered.

I do a trailer swap and getting that back is the last thing I do in the day, it’s pre-loaded through the back doors, so I usually turn up to a trailer with bulging curtains. I’m not opening them to have the load fall out, it can wait until back at the depot when there’s 3+ lads and 2 forklifts to pick the crap back up.

I’ve never had anything fall out of a curtainsider yet, even though I’ve had some seriously bulging curtains, so it’s not something I worry about too much and see the Vosa chart as another money making scheme.

I’ve pointed out to my boss that we should be doing things by the book, and his shoulders shrugged. I can only use what’s provided and only then if it’s safe.

How do the double deck’s in pallet hubs go on?

[chester]

Why do threads like this filter away into the wilderness? Is it because you cant comment because you know your breaking the law but your keeping the boss happy?

I see unsecured loads each and every day and think what mugs them drivers are to risk their life, livelehood and maybe injure members of the public.

Seems like the old ‘n’ bold type are “they dont move” or “the curtains will hold it in” why do you all insist on burying your heads in the sand, The times they are a changing!

[shuttlespanker]

some RDC’s don’t allow you to open the curtains whilst on the bay tipping, and don’t allow you to undo the straps, what they do is go along with the knife as they come to them and cut them off

[tango_boy]

shuttlespanker:
some RDC’s don’t allow you to open the curtains whilst on the bay tipping, and don’t allow you to undo the straps, what they do is go along with the knife as they come to them and cut them off

argos are good at that

[madbaz]

shuttlespanker:
some RDC’s don’t allow you to open the curtains whilst on the bay tipping, and don’t allow you to undo the straps, what they do is go along with the knife as they come to them and cut them off

That’s why I open em up before going on the bay and undo the relevant straps. At the hub though, your not allowed out of the cab to put starps on as your being loaded, you can only do it in a safe/flt free area, they won’t even hang the straps down as they load it, so with a 3" gap to work with it’s impossible to get straps in the correct position. The dd’s have nets and straps right on the edge of the roof so there isn’t a problem, but go with a 'normal trailer and your put in a difficult position.

[juddian]

MADBAZ:

shuttlespanker:
some RDC’s don’t allow you to open the curtains whilst on the bay tipping, and don’t allow you to undo the straps, what they do is go along with the knife as they come to them and cut them off

That’s why I open em up before going on the bay and undo the relevant straps. At the hub though, your not allowed out of the cab to put starps on as your being loaded, you can only do it in a safe/flt free area, they won’t even hang the straps down as they load it, so with a 3" gap to work with it’s impossible to get straps in the correct position. The dd’s have nets and straps right on the edge of the roof so there isn’t a problem, but go with a 'normal trailer and your put in a difficult position.

^^^this^^^ is what i meant, i don’t have to do this cos i’m on the tanks and our rigids and trailers are (often overnight) loaded properly with enough room for the driver to pull curtains back and get the straps in the right place, during the day when outsiders come in, again, our place is sensible and the drivers can sort their straps out as loading goes on.

MADBAZ’s post shows that its smply not possible to secure the load correctly without having access to chucking straps over the load DURING loading procedures.

Maybe those lads who are affected by this situation might be advised to put the problem in writing to their company, keep copies…that way the onus has been passed to management, and they don’t like the possibility of being held responsible or ‘put in the frame’ when the crap hits the fan, but its their job to sort these places out, so make them do so, they want the big bucks and the job title etc so make 'em take responsibility.

Its a bit like writing a defect out, once the company have been officially notified that you cannot safely secure your load, they are involved should there be a load security problem on the road.

Believe me it works, putting things in writing, especially when a decently written letter is undersigned by several people does get a reaction, PDQ.

This does need sorting out, its the driver on his jack jones when something goes wrong 50 miles up the road, management at the haulier and the RDC just sit back and let the driver take the heat for their failures.

[ibson]

Why don’t places have a strapping zone? Like a sheeting zone in a quarry. Would that not solve the problem? The driver is then free to strap or un-strap his load safely and not get run over by a forklift, and if supplied with a raised walkway like in some quarry’s can even get onto the bed without falling off.

[wiretwister]

Juddian:
Sounds like there’s not been much co-operation or discussion then at some places so far, i suppose as usual it’ll carry on a muddle till some poor innocent bugger gets seriously hurt or killed by a lost load and the finger gets pointed at the RDC who made it nigh on impossible for the driver to secure his load correctly during loading by preventing access…then a almight knee jerk reaction when RDC management find themselves liable.

The cynic in my reckons the result will be more bloody boxes to tick to absolve those ultimately responsible, and still no constructive help.

Sorry mate but the cynic in me thinks the RDC will point the finger straight back at the driver as it becomes his responsibility as soon as it’s taken on the road. If you cant secure it properly then the load point should sign the run manifest to say that they have secured the load properly. As soon as you ask for a signature I’ll wager they let you strap down, after all if you follow your company process you’ll be fine, right?

juddian:
This does need sorting out, its the driver on his jack jones when something goes wrong 50 miles up the road, management at the haulier and the RDC just sit back and let the driver take the heat for their failures.

Edited to acknowledge this in a later post.

[madbaz]

ibson:
Why don’t places have a strapping zone? Like a sheeting zone in a quarry. Would that not solve the problem? The driver is then free to strap or un-strap his load safely and not get run over by a forklift, and if supplied with a raised walkway like in some quarry’s can even get onto the bed without falling off.

Ibson, at the hub they have exactly this, but there is no way of getting the straps (spansets or internals) in the correct positions when loaded to the rafters. There are no movable steps (H&S working at height regs allegedly), forkies can’t enter safe area, drivers can’t enter loading area, forkies can’t get off to position straps as they’re loading. As long as the hub keep their almost perfect accident free record. What I find strange is, in our warehouse, buzzing with forkies, I’ve never come close to having a close encounter whilst un/strapping or sorting curtains/posts, I always try to work on opposite side/end of trailer to forkies and twiddle thumbs when I’m not needed, by the back doors, the safest area. Our forkies are pretty clued up and they and I know what we’re gonna do next. We can load/tip 26+ pallets in under 5 minutes, so it’s intense, but safe, as long as your not aimlessly wandering about.

[juddian]

Wiretwister:

Juddian:

‘’‘‘Sorry mate but the cynic in me thinks the RDC will point the finger straight back at the driver as it becomes his responsibility as soon as it’s taken on the road. If you cant secure it properly then the load point should sign the run manifest to say that they have secured the load properly. As soon as you ask for a signature I’ll wager they let you strap down, after all if you follow your company process you’ll be fine, right?’’’
^^^^ Wiretwisters post…i cocked up the quote…again…

No i agree with you there, the box ticking i meant may well come from the RDC who manage to prevent the driver securing the load, but part of the conditions of acceptance of the load in the small print will be the driver taking reponsibility.

At the end of the day, the driver on his own is everybody’s bloody football just like its been for all the years i’ve been doing the job, except now with the variety of H & S dos and donts the driver is having to do the job one way to satisfy the RDC whilst being unable to satisfy the increasing load security required by VOSA.

Drivers on there own each trying to do the job to the best of their ability can’t win this one, it needs groups of drivers getting together and forcing (by putting in writing i suggest a starting point) their company management into a position of being officially informed of the problem…whilst its word of mouth they’ll just tell the driver what he wants to hear and nothing will get done, and then point the finger at the driver when it all goes ■■■■ up.

[simon]

tango boy:

shuttlespanker:
some RDC’s don’t allow you to open the curtains whilst on the bay tipping, and don’t allow you to undo the straps, what they do is go along with the knife as they come to them and cut them off

argos are good at that

Pull off bay. Look in the back, bits of cut strap everywhere.
Straight back on the bay and in to the office.

Either the load is secure, or it isn’t.
Either you can move it with no straps, or you can’t.
If it can’t be moved without straps, it can’t be moved.
I refuse to wander around a yard trying to find a ‘safe’ place to secure their load. Wandering around trying to find a ‘safe’ place, is moving with an insecure load. I don’t do the reverse either.

[10-08]

Simon:

tango boy:

shuttlespanker:
some RDC’s don’t allow you to open the curtains whilst on the bay tipping, and don’t allow you to undo the straps, what they do is go along with the knife as they come to them and cut them off

argos are good at that

Pull off bay. Look in the back, bits of cut strap everywhere.
Straight back on the bay and in to the office.

How is that not criminal damage? I would be really miffed if that was my trailer.

[simon]

10-08:

Simon:

tango boy:

shuttlespanker:
some RDC’s don’t allow you to open the curtains whilst on the bay tipping, and don’t allow you to undo the straps, what they do is go along with the knife as they come to them and cut them off

argos are good at that

Pull off bay. Look in the back, bits of cut strap everywhere.
Straight back on the bay and in to the office.

How is that not criminal damage? I would be really miffed if that was my trailer.

Exactly 10-08, which is why I’d be straight back to the office.

[10-08]

Simon:

10-08:

Simon:

tango boy:

shuttlespanker:
some RDC’s don’t allow you to open the curtains whilst on the bay tipping, and don’t allow you to undo the straps, what they do is go along with the knife as they come to them and cut them off

argos are good at that

Pull off bay. Look in the back, bits of cut strap everywhere.
Straight back on the bay and in to the office.

How is that not criminal damage? I would be really miffed if that was my trailer.

Exactly 10-08, which is why I’d be straight back to the office.

I think I’d be tempted to phone 999 (reason being the person who did it is still there) and cause a bit of havoc for them.

[slackbladder]

We have only recently been told to start using the internal straps on our double deck trailers. It’s not a legal requirement at the moment but if you have them they want us to use them. Not a problem when loading at our place because we can move and strap the load as it goes on. At the hub after scanning we take them off. Not allowed out the cab when loading so it’s wait until we drive outside then strap up. If any straps are trapped, it’s rare but it happens, I just call over a forkie to lift the pallet to free it. They seem to have more trouble avoiding the curtain poles which look like a dogs back leg at the moment.