You’re doing it again ROG, adding in stuff that isn’t there and not answering the original question correctly. 
ROG:
I’ll give you a clue… put work onto the bank holiday days
Sorry ROG, but I can’t see what that has to do with the price of fish… 
delboytwo:
Rog your forgetting we live in the real world mate andPublic and bank holidays
You do not have a statutory right to paid leave on bank and public holidays. If your employer gives paid leave on a bank or public holiday, this can count towards your minimum holiday entitlement. There are eight permanent bank and public holidays in England and Wales (nine in Scotland and ten in Northern Ireland).
If you work on a bank or public holiday, there is no automatic right to an enhanced pay rate. What you get paid depends on your contract of employment.
If you are part time and your employer gives workers additional time off on bank holidays, this should be given pro rata to you as well, even if the bank holiday does not fall on your usual work day.
Sorry Del, I can’t see the connection between this and the OP.
I noticed that ROG mentioned a bank holiday, but I can’t see the relevance of that to the OP either.
There’s nothing in 561/2006 about x, y or z applying on a bank holiday or that you can/can’t/may do anything any different to any other day.
As for pay, holiday entitlements, contracts of employment and enhanced pay rates etc etc, IMHO that’s even further off-topic than what ROG wrote. I’ll concede that what you put is quite true, but can you show how it’s relevant to the OP please, or am I missing something?
Whoo Hoo, the Del and ROG show is back in town. 
Thanks for your input guys. I have no regular pattern, I only passed my test recently and am doing agency work although pretty much for the same company at the moment. With that in mind, I work when I can (allowed under the rules). So to recap with a bit more info 
Thur 24 Weekly Rest
Fri 25 Weekly Rest (sombined two days in excess of 45 hours)
Sat 26 Work
Sun 27 Work
Mon 28 Weekly Rest
Tue 29 Weekly Rest (combined two days in excess of 45 hours)
Wed 30 Work
Thu 31 Work
Fri 1 Rest (33 Hours)
Sat 2 Work
Sunday 3 Work
Monday 4 Work
Tuesday 5 Rest (39 hours)
Wed 6 Work
Thur 7 Work
Friday 8 Work
and…
Saturday 9 Work
Sunday (Weekly Rest 43.75 hours, end of shift sat to start mon)
Monday 11 Work
As I see it, I now owe 1.25 hours which I need to pay back in 3 weeks, the clock effectively starting at 20.30 Sat when I started my weekly rest 
MAT:
I have no regular pattern
That puts my assumption firmly out the window
MAT - your last FULL weekly rest was Mon 28 & Tue 29 and tachograph has already stated that the latest time you MUST start the next FULL weekly rest is 23.59 hours on Sunday 17th January.
As long as you adhere to that then you will be ok 
Tuesday 5 Rest (39 hours)
Sunday 10 (Weekly Rest 43.75 hours, end of shift sat to start mon)
I think I am correct in saying that you can use Tue 5 as the reduced weekly rest and use Sun 10 as a daily rest with full payback for Tue 5 reduced weekly rest
If I am correct then you have no hours that need paying back.
MAT:
Thur 24 Weekly Rest
Fri 25 Weekly Rest (sombined two days in excess of 45 hours)
Sat 26 Work
Sun 27 Work
Mon 28 Weekly Rest
Tue 29 Weekly Rest (combined two days in excess of 45 hours)this rest tachograph as said is for that week ok 45 hours done
Wed 30 Work
Thu 31 Work
Fri 1 Rest (33 Hours)this rest can not be counted as the one above is for this week
Sat 2 Work
Sunday 3 Work
Monday 4 Work
Tuesday 5 Rest (39 hours)this rest is ok and is a reduced rest and covers that week
Wed 6 Work
Thur 7 Work
Friday 8 Workand…
Saturday 9 Work
Sunday (Weekly Rest 43.75 hours, end of shift sat to start mon)this rest is wrong as you are required to have a 45 hour rest or more at this rest will be the new weeks rest as he can not count it in the week as he as already done that on the 5 th
Monday 11 WorkAs I see it, I now owe 1.25 hours which I need to pay back in 3 weeks, the clock effectively starting at 20.30 Sat when I started my weekly rest
- In any two consecutive weeks a driver shall take at least:
– two regular weekly rest periods, or
– one regular weekly rest period and one reduced weekly
rest period of at least 24 hours. However, the reduction
shall be compensated by an equivalent period of rest
taken en bloc before the end of the third week following
the week in question.
A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six
24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest
period.
dieseldave:
IMHO that’s even further off-topic than what ROG wrote. I’ll concede that what you put is quite true, but can you show how it’s relevant to the OP please, or am I missing something?
if you look at this
ROG:
I’ll give you a clue… put work onto the bank holiday days
Rog explains that he considers bank holidays Rog is taking the fact that bank holiday are part of his rest and as you know most companies work bank holidays and the is no right to have them so my comment is based on the rests been that rest no more no less, the shift patten could be a normal couple of week so bank holidays should not be taken in the context
MAT:
As I see it, I now owe 1.25 hours which I need to pay back in 3 weeks, the clock effectively starting at 20.30 Sat when I started my weekly rest
As it stands at the moment you have 6 hours to compensate for, from teh 39 hour rest, and it must be paid back by the end of the third week following the reduction, if you think of the week you take a reduction in as week 1 you must have paid it back by the end of week 4.
However the most important thing is you must begin, as Tachograph has already said a regular weekly rest of at least 45 hours before the end of Sunday the 17th. If you do that all your compensation is covered because the 43.75 hour rest will have no purpose other than to allow you to work until the 17th before your next rest is required and as that rest will require no compensation it will be a reduced weekly rest with the 6 hours of compensation required.
Every thing you have done so far is legal weekly rest wise but if you don’t begin a rest period of at least 45 hours before the end of the 17th then all your good work goes out the window. As soon as you have taken that period of at least 45 hours then you are all up to date with rest and compensation and good to go.
In fact if you could just make that 43.75 hour rest into 45 hours you will be bang up to date and have no compensation to make at all. If you could do that then like the 33 hour rest period the 39 hour one would no longer require compensation. It would also mean you would only require to begin a reduced weekly rest before the end of the 17th instead of a regular, which could improve your earning opportunities. That 1.25 hours makes a very big difference to what you need to take and when.
delboytwo:
Tue 29 Weekly Rest (combined two days in excess of 45 hours)this rest tachograph as said is for that week ok 45 hours done
Wed 30 Work
Thu 31 Work
Fri 1 Rest (33 Hours)this rest can not be counted as the one above is for this week
Of course it is counted, it just doesn’t require compensation but it is still a weekly rest period.
delboytwo:
Sunday (Weekly Rest 43.75 hours, end of shift sat to start mon)this rest is wrong as you are required to have a 45 hour rest or more at this rest will be the new weeks rest as he can not count it in the week as he as already done that on the 5 th
That rest is fine. It doesn’t have to be a regular weekly rest period provided he does begin one before the end of the 17th. Of course he can count it, in fact he must count in order to prevent him working more than 6 days without a weekly rest period. Like the one above it is counted as a weekly rest, it just doesn’t need compensation.
You are doing a ROG, you have no idea what he is doing later this week and are making assumptions instead of just answering on the information given, and based on that information that rest period is fine.
Let’s play your and ROG’s game. If we start guessing about the rest of his week and he works Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday then takes all of Friday and Saturday off would you still say that 43.75 hour rest is wrong?
i am not going down there
stop looking at the 6 day rule an agency driver drives when work is available consider the rest as thought the rest were so the driver could work a full week after the rest he took just in case he got a full weeks work, we don’t know why the driver started the rest it could be that there was no work he finished is rest cos work was available
week 1 rest 45 hours
week 2 33 hours
week 3 39 hours
week 4 43.75 hours (or will)
ok some of these rest would not be required under the 6 day rule but
if you consider the rest as a weekly rest you would see that the driver as not for filled is legal requirement of one 45 and 1 24 or 2 45s in two consecutive week
the 6 day rule is the fact that a rest must be taken by 6 day of work
you don’t have to work a full 6 day week to take a weekly rest you could only work one day if you so desired be for you take a weekly rest
delboytwo:
stop looking at the 6 day rule an agency driver drives when work is available consider the rest as thought the rest were so the driver could work a full week after the rest he took just in case he got a full weeks work
Mat has pointed out when he expects to be working and when he expects to be on rest, it’s already been pointed out that he should have a regular 45 hour weekly rest starting before midnight 17th January, it’s also been pointed out by Coffeeholic that if he could extend that 43.75 hours to 45 hours it may be advantageous and would negate the need for a regular weekly rest on the 17th.
As Coffeeholic has said the 43.75 hour reduced weekly rest is not wrong but it could be better if it could be extended to 45 hours.
delboytwo:
if you consider the rest as a weekly rest you would see that the driver as not for filled is legal requirement of one 45 and 1 24 or 2 45s in two consecutive week
The work and rest pattern described by Mat is perfectly legal as long as he starts a regular weekly rest before midnight 17th January and the requirement for that regular weekly rest has been mentioned several times now, as already mentioned if the 43.75 hour rest could be extended to 45 hours it would bring his rest requirements up-to date and leave a clean slate up-to that point but it’s still legal as it is
24/12/2009 _ _ _ Thursday _ _ _
25/12/2009 _ _ _ Friday _ _ _ Weekly Rest 45 hrs _ _ _ (Week 1)
26/12/2009 _ _ _ Saturday _ _ _ Work
27/12/2009 _ _ _ Sunday _ _ _ Work
^^^^Week 1^^^^
28/12/2009 _ _ _ Monday _ _ _
29/12/2009 _ _ _ Tuesday _ _ _ Weekly Rest 45 hrs _ _ _ (Week 2)
30/12/2009 _ _ _ Wednesday_ _ _ Work
31/12/2009 _ _ _ Thursday _ _ _ Work
01/01/2010 _ _ _ Friday _ _ _ Reduced Weekly Rest 33 hrs
02/01/2010 _ _ _ Saturday _ _ _ Work
03/01/2010 _ _ _ Sunday _ _ _ Work
^^^^week 2^^^^
04/01/2010 _ _ _ Monday _ _ _ Work
05/01/2010 _ _ _ Tuesday _ _ _ Reduced Weekly Rest 39 hrs
06/01/2010 _ _ _ Wednesday_ _ _ Work
07/01/2010 _ _ _ Thursday _ _ _ Work
08/01/2010 _ _ _ Friday _ _ _ Work
09/01/2010 _ _ _ Saturday _ _ _ Work
10/01/2010 _ _ _ Sunday _ _ _ Reduced Weekly Rest 43.75 hrs _ _ _ (Week 3 compensation required)
^^^^week 3^^^^
11/01/2010 _ _ _ Monday _ _ _ Work
12/01/2010 _ _ _ Tuesday
13/01/2010 _ _ _ Wednesday
14/01/2010 _ _ _ Thursday
15/01/2010 _ _ _ Friday
16/01/2010 _ _ _ Saturday
17/01/2010 _ _ _ Sunday _ _ _ Weekly Rest 45 hrs begins no later than 144 hours from the start of Monday’s shift _ _ _ (Week 4)
^^^^week 4^^^^
1.25 hours compensation should be paid back for the reduced weekly rest on Sunday 10th by 31st January.
Question for tachograph
In the beautifully constructed above working pattern could the 39 hours rest in week 3 be the reduced weekly rest for that week and the 43.75 hours rest be a daily rest including the 6 hour payback from the 39 hours as well as being used to ensure that the 144 hour rule was adhered to ■■
ROG:
Question for tachograph
could the 39 hours rest in week 3 be the reduced weekly rest for that week and the 43.75 hours rest be a daily rest including the 6 hour payback from the 39 hours as well as being used to ensure that the 144 hour rule was adhered to ■■
Yes you’re right, I overlooked that and In fact it’s already been mentioned in this thread by yourself and Coffeeholic 
I was just testing your observation abilities really … no honest I was
delboytwo:
you don’t have to work a full 6 day week to take a weekly rest you could only work one day if you so desired be for you take a weekly rest
Exactly, so why did you say the 43.75 hour rest was wrong then when it clearly isn’t because you have no idea what his plans are for the rest of the week? There is no need for him to take a full 45 hour rest at that point.
ROG:
Question for tachograph
In the beautifully constructed above working pattern
There is nothing to pay back at all if using the 39 as the reduced though - isn’t that easier than having any payback at all ■■?
ROG:
Question for tachograph
In the beautifully constructed above working pattern
Which is what I said in my earlier post.
i think IMHO if you look at the regs you will see it state a weekly rest is
Article 4
For the purposes of this Regulation the following definitions
shall apply:
‘regular weekly rest period’ means any period of rest
of at least 45 hours,
there for and rest of at least 45 hours would be classed as a weekly rest and therefore you have taken a weekly rest
Article 4
For the purposes of this Regulation the following definitions
shall apply:
a reduced rest is when you do this
‘reduced weekly rest period’ means any period of
rest of less than 45 hours, which may, subject to the
conditions laid down in Article 8(6), be shortened
to a minimum of 24 consecutive hours;
now lets look at this
A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six
24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest
period.
this is informing you that a rest as to be taken at the end of six 24 hour period
once a rest of 24 hours or 45 hours as being taken it give you the right to work for another 6 24 hours periods, it does not give you the right to choose which is a rest or is not
you may use a weekly rest in ether week but not both so if you had 45 or at least 24 in the week that is a weekly rest and as stated would be a weekly rest
so therefore 01/01/2010 _ _ _ Friday _ _ _ Reduced Weekly Rest 33 hrs, would be a extended daily rest and therefore not counted as the rest for that week,as it was taken on 28/12/2009 _ _ _ Monday _ _ _
29/12/2009 _ _ _ Tuesday _ _ _ Weekly Rest 45 hrs _ _ _ (Week 2) (well we are all presuming that )as you all know only one rest can be count in one week
so is next legal rest world be on the 5/01/2010 (which could be a full weekly one or a reduced weekly rest ) he took a reduced rest 39 hours so at is next legal rest he would need to take a 45 hour or more rest which would be on 11/01/2010 but he did not do that he took a weekly rest on the 10/01/2010 _ _ _ Sunday _ _ _ Reduced Weekly Rest 43.75 hrs and as the last rest was a reduced rest this rest must be a 45 hour rest
delboytwo:
A load of stuff that isn’t relevant to the original question
You are contradicting yourself now Del. In a previous post you correctly pointed out that you can take a weekly rest at any time and not just after 6 days, even after just one day.
delboytwo:
as you all know only one rest can be count in one week
That bit is just nonsense, you can have more than one rest in a week, and they all count as weekly rest periods, they just don’t all need compensating.
delboytwo:
so is next legal rest world be on the 5/01/2010 (which could be a full weekly one or a reduced weekly rest ) he took a reduced rest 39 hours so at is next legal rest he would need to take a 45 hour or more rest
No he wouldn’t, you can take consecutive reduced rest periods as long as you comply with the requirement to take at least one reduced and one regular in consecutive weeks.
delboytwo:
which would be on 11/01/2010 but he did not do that he took a weekly rest on the 10/01/2010 _ _ _ Sunday _ _ _ Reduced Weekly Rest 43.75 hrs and as the last rest was a reduced rest this rest must be a 45 hour rest
Total ■■■■■■■■, there is no requirement for him to take a 45 hour rest here. He must begin a regular rest period by latest 23:59 on the 17th not on the 11th but there is nothing to prevent him taking a reduced rest before the 17th to prevent him working more than 6 days without a weekly rest period, which he has done by taking 43.75 hours.
Look at the post from Tachograph laying out his work schedule.
Week 1 - Regular weekly rest
Week 2 - Regular weekly rest
Week 3 - Reduced weekly rest
That means Week 4 requires a regular weekly rest and as long as he begins a regular rest in week 4 then he is legal, and 23:59 on Sunday 17th or 144 hours from starting work on Monday the 11th, whichever comes soonest, is the latest he can begin it for it to be counted for Week 4.
HINT. Don’t come back quoting the thing about rest that begins and ends in different weeks can be counted in either but not both as none of the rest periods here have been counted in two weeks so it isn’t relevant.
delboytwo:
as you all know only one rest can be count in one week
Del unless you can back that up with a quote from the regulations (which you can’t) your whole argument falls apart
i resin to the fact that i must be a bit thick and consider the fact that everyone as an opinion on how the regs are worked, if i think what i think and its legal than that fine, my why would be legal so that fine by me how i have wrote it mite come across as ■■■■■■■■ but i am no writing expert it probably my poor understanding of the English language
i always think for me that a weekly rest after you done a weeks work and as long as i stick to that that all that counts for me i will not longer comment on the safety forum ever again as its seams i am the bit of everyone amusement
Coffeeholic:
delboytwo wrote:A load of stuff that isn’t relevant to the original question
can you point to this quote as i can’t fined it please as i don’t remember saying that
if you would be so kind
and as about i mead you can count one weekly rest in either week but not the same week sorry again for my thick thinking