I’d very much like to see this topic answered in court. You know. like the ‘any period vs each period’ argument regarding a clean sheet after 45 mins - or the exemption for trucks “engaged in” roadworks/road construction. Sadly, I think the only ‘court’ likely to have to face it, at least initially, would be within the Employment Tribunal system
I think, since the 2006/7 re-write, it’s become questionable/ambiguous.
My own personal view is that the authority/discretion/permissions is at best ‘neutral’ - and that can’t be right, can it ■■?
It reminds me of the coppers’ mantra that speed limits are just that - a limit - they’re not a target. In my mind, the same applies. The maximum and minimums are just that - max/min. They’re not targets or ‘requirements’ - or at least, they shouldn’t be. Unfortunately, many employers (and the drivers) have allowed them to become just that.
When you consider that one of the first mentions regarding the reason for the re-write was to “improve working conditions and road safety . .” and to “improve social conditions for employees who are covered by it, as well as to improve general road safety” it’s not a giant leap to consider that the driver should have at least some input to the question raised.
I totally agree with you, employers now see the regs as what they can expect of a driver, you CAN work these hours so thats what you will do. Why the hell are a group of people who are in charge of 44 ton vehicles allowed to b eexempt from the WTD? In other words we can basically work more hours than a cook or a cleaner, where does safety come into that equation? To be honest it shows that the government knows how important we are to the economy, but wont support us in any way eg minimum wage for drivers so we dont have to work so many hours for a decent wage.
schrodingers cat:
Why the hell are a group of people who are in charge of 44 ton vehicles allowed to b exempt from the WTD?
We’re not, in fact we’re one of the few groups of workers who cannot opt out of the WTD as a whole, we can opt out of the night time workers 10 hour limit but that’s about all.
schrodingers cat:
In other words we can basically work more hours than a cook or a cleaner, where does safety come into that equation?
Safety doesn’t come into that equation because it’s not true, legally we’re restricted to an average of 48 hours working time per week, as far as I know a cook or a cleaner can work whatever hours they want if they’ve opted out of the WTD, we as mobile workers cannot opt out of the WTD.
schrodingers cat:
To be honest it shows that the government knows how important we are to the economy, but wont support us in any way eg minimum wage for drivers so we dont have to work so many hours for a decent wage.
Sorry but we’re no more important to the economy of this country than any other group of workers.
There is a minimum wage and I fail to see why there should be a special minimum wage for drivers that’s different to anyone else’s minimum wage
schrodingers cat:
Why the hell are a group of people who are in charge of 44 ton vehicles allowed to b exempt from the WTD?
We’re not, in fact we’re one of the few groups of workers who cannot opt out of the WTD as a whole, we can opt out of the night time workers 10 hour limit but that’s about all.
schrodingers cat:
In other words we can basically work more hours than a cook or a cleaner, where does safety come into that equation?
Safety doesn’t come into that equation because it’s not true, legally we’re restricted to an average of 48 hours working time per week, as far as I know a cook or a cleaner can work whatever hours they want if they’ve opted out of the WTD, we as mobile workers cannot opt out of the WTD.
schrodingers cat:
To be honest it shows that the government knows how important we are to the economy, but wont support us in any way eg minimum wage for drivers so we dont have to work so many hours for a decent wage.
Sorry but we’re no more important to the economy of this country than any other group of workers.
There is a minimum wage and I fail to see why there should be a special minimum wage for drivers that’s different to anyone else’s minimum wage
schrodingers cat:
I totally agree with you, employers now see the regs as what they can expect of a driver, you CAN work these hours so thats what you will do. Why the hell are a group of people who are in charge of 44 ton vehicles allowed to b eexempt from the WTD?
Because they’re not however plenty of drivers will fiddle PoA so they can continue to do 84hr weeks and plenty of employers are both ignorant and/or don’t care about the 48hr average and SIXTY HOUR WEEKLY LIMIT. Combine that with drivers who would like the protection of the WTD but are TOO STUPID to open their gobs and the whole thing is completely unworkable.
I just wish they would simplify the whole drivers hours,
all this rubbish about, you can reduce but you have to make it up,is just so confusing.
why dont they say… at the end of your shift you must have 11hrs rest,simple!
TTX boy:
I just wish they would simplify the whole drivers hours,
all this rubbish about, you can reduce but you have to make it up,is just so confusing.
They did simplify it 4 years ago today. You haven’t had to make up for a reduced daily rest since then.
TTX boy:
why dont they say… at the end of your shift you must have 11hrs rest,simple!
That’s pretty much what they do say, along with a couple of other things. If that was all it said though what would stop you working say 18 or 20 hours and then having 11 hours off?
yorkshiredave:
At work today we were told that the eleven hour rest period between shifts has ended and now we can be made to come back after nine hours.
In the past if we finished late after a bad shift and we were due on early the next day we would tell them to shove it and have an eleven hour break.
Have things changed or are we being told a pack of lies?
Welcome to the real world.If you class yourself as a professional driver as I’m sure you do,you would already know the answer to your question.Ignorance is no excuse.
Drivers hours need looking at again.
they are designed for the benefit of the employer,NOT the driver.
Why should it be ok for a driver to work for 15 hrs a day ■■?
Why should it be ok for a driver to have just 9hrs rest ■■?
We shouldn’t have to be working 60hrs+ per week to earn a decent wage.
What other industry is overtime compulsury ■■?
ok so exactly which part did i get wrong i advised the op that there are other factors that affect rest periods and TO LOOK IT UP not ask on forums like this as 1 person will take somthing differently to another, as to my other comment about if the driver feels they need to take a 11 hr break think you need to check this with vosa as NO ONE can force you to drive if you are not completely rested!!! there are very few people on here that actually work for the people that make these stupid laws so i would advise that if you are unaware of hours laws CHECK THE LIKES OF VOSA’s website not what somebody on this or any forum thinks is right as if you get stopped and have done something wrong YOU are the one that gets done!!!
the g bear:
ok so exactly which part did i get wrong i advised the op that there are other factors that affect rest periods and TO LOOK IT UP not ask on forums like this as 1 person will take somthing differently to another, as to my other comment about if the driver feels they need to take a 11 hr break think you need to check this with vosa as NO ONE can force you to drive if you are not completely rested!!! there are very few people on here that actually work for the people that make these stupid laws so i would advise that if you are unaware of hours laws CHECK THE LIKES OF VOSA’s website not what somebody on this or any forum thinks is right as if you get stopped and have done something wrong YOU are the one that gets done!!!
But VOSA dont make any laws, they just enforce a European directive, the same European directive that 27 countries have to follow.
VOSA publish a simple guide, but they don’t use that to prosecute you, they use the same regulation that you should be reading.
the g bear:
ok so exactly which part did i get wrong i advised the op that there are other factors that affect rest periods and TO LOOK IT UP not ask on forums like this as 1 person will take somthing differently to another, as to my other comment about if the driver feels they need to take a 11 hr break think you need to check this with vosa as NO ONE can force you to drive if you are not completely rested!!! there are very few people on here that actually work for the people that make these stupid laws so i would advise that if you are unaware of hours laws CHECK THE LIKES OF VOSA’s website not what somebody on this or any forum thinks is right as if you get stopped and have done something wrong YOU are the one that gets done!!!
If you ask VOSA this question they will tell you that under the EU Driver’s Hours Regulations that the option to reduce is not solely at the driver’s discretion, we have had people from VOSA post to this effect when this question has come up many times in the past. The person teaching your DCPC course gave you duff information as the company can legally schedule the driver to take a reduced rest under the hours regulations.
one post and 36 replies - no 2 poeple seem to think the same .
What a shambles
This whole area need to be sorted out once and for all. Nice simple rules that we can all follow -
Your week starts 00.00 Monday , finishes 23.59 Sunday
in a 24 period you have 12/13/14/15 hours to be “on duty” of those hours you may drive 9 with a break of 1 hour every 4 hours /
you may not drive more than 9 hours in a day ( taken from Midnight to Midnight)
Once you drive 45 / 50/ 55 hours you are finished for the week .
You must have at least 35/ 40/ 45 hours rest every week.
yorkshiredave:
At work today we were told that the eleven hour rest period between shifts has ended and now we can be made to come back after nine hours.
In the past if we finished late after a bad shift and we were due on early the next day we would tell them to shove it and have an eleven hour break.
Have things changed or are we being told a pack of lies?
Chapter 3. Article 10. Paragraph 2.
A transport undertaking shall organise the work of
drivers referred to in paragraph 1 in such a way that the
drivers are able to comply with Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85
and Chapter II of this Regulation. The transport undertaking
shall properly instruct the driver and shall make regular
checks to ensure that Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 and
Chapter II of this Regulation are complied with.
beefy4605:
one post and 36 replies - no 2 poeple seem to think the same .
What a shambles
This whole area need to be sorted out once and for all. Nice simple rules that we can all follow -
Your week starts 00.00 Monday , finishes 23.59 Sunday
in a 24 period you have 12/13/14/15 hours to be “on duty” of those hours you may drive 9 with a break of 1 hour every 4 hours /
you may not drive more than 9 hours in a day ( taken from Midnight to Midnight)
Once you drive 45 / 50/ 55 hours you are finished for the week .
You must have at least 35/ 40/ 45 hours rest every week.
I have another idea.
The daily driving time shall not exceed nine hours.
but the daily driving time may be extended to at most
10 hours no more than twice during the week.
A driver shall not exceed 56 hours driving in any week.
That driver may not exceed 90 hours driving in any two week period
After 4.5 hours driving the driver must take at least 45 minutes break which can be split into two segments, the latter being no less than 30 minutes.
Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the
previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall
have taken a new daily rest period.
This rest period shall be 11 hours but may be reduced to a minimum of 9 hours no more than three times between any weekly rest periods.
You haven’t had to make up for a reduced daily rest since then.
if refering to 561/2006