Hi all,
Wed and Thurs off.
Worked 6 days through to next Wed.
One day off (Thurs)
Worked Fri and Sat.
Sunday off.
When is my next full 45 hours to be taken please?
Thanks SD
Do you want to take a stab at answering yourself?
What rule are you breaking if you worked another 6 days through to Sunday Monday off?
Speedy Duck:
When is my next full 45 hours to be taken please?
Each rolling 2 week period must contain a 45 hour weekly rest. A weekly rest can span two fixed weeks but cannot count in both. So as Stu says, you could work 6 days from Mon to Sat and have Sun Mon off which will count as a full weekly rest for that week.
stu675:
Do you want to take a stab at answering yourself?
I would say next Sunday Monday and make sure any pay back is done at same time
stu675:
Do you want to take a stab at answering yourself?
+1
This isn’t rocket science, it’s all on gov.uk with worked examples, see below, and is on a million other sites, and on Youtube for people who CBA to read.
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … vers-hours
youtube.com/watch?v=H3_U_eoo9o8
OP, If you can’t work it out yourself, and if you’re downloading your card regularly, just ask your TM what is the date for your next 45 hours. If he/she can’t work it out, tell them the tacho analysis software does it automatically, all they have to do is read it off the screen 
Quick & easy rule of thumb for you is: one set of 6 x 24 hour periods (note, not calendar days) then a reduced weekly (24 hour min) then 5x 24 hour periods followed by a 45 hour Weekly Rest.
Some people may have more complex scenarios to offer, but I think it needs to be kept basic for now.
Zac_A:
stu675:
Do you want to take a stab at answering yourself?+1
I’m glad you agree. 
This isn’t rocket science, it’s all on gov.uk with worked examples, see below, and is on a million other sites, and on Youtube for people who CBA to read.
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … vers-hours
youtube.com/watch?v=H3_U_eoo9o8OP, If you can’t work it out yourself, and if you’re downloading your card regularly, just ask your TM what is the date for your next 45 hours. If he/she can’t work it out, tell them the tacho analysis software does it automatically, all they have to do is read it off the screen
Quick & easy rule of thumb for you is: one set of 6 x 24 hour periods (note, not calendar days) then a reduced weekly (24 hour min) then 5x 24 hour periods
I know you’re keeping it simple, but couldn’t that be a second 6 days of work?
followed by a 45 hour Weekly Rest.
Some people may have more complex scenarios to offer, but I think it needs to be kept basic for now.
Thank you for your responses.
I have clarification now.
SD
Speedy Duck:
Hi all,
Wed and Thurs off. (Week 1)
Worked 6 days through to next Wed.
One day off (Thurs) (Week 2)
Worked Fri and Sat.
Sunday off. (Also week 2)
When is my next full 45 hours to be taken please?
If you imagine the week in which you had the Wednesday and Thursday off as week 1 you need to start a regular 45 hour weekly rest period no later than 23:59 Sunday of week 3.
Thank you Tacho
stu675:
I know you’re keeping it simple, but couldn’t that be a second 6 days of work?
To me, DH is no different than any other subject, “students” have to get comfortable with the basics before progressing to the more complex scenarios, otherwise they end up more confused than they were at the start, so I’m a big fan of the KISS methodology.
Here’s a similar example of the KISS method of teaching from my ADR courses. Part way through the Wednesday of the course, I tell candidates why Class 5.1 oxidizing substances are dangerous.
(1) They support combustion.
Drivers don’t need to know more detail than that, they certainly don’t need to know everything I do about how that process works.
Occasionally some drivers ask: Why it is only oxygen does this and not nitrogen or anything else? I reply:
(2) It’s like a buy-one-get-one-free deal with oxygen, it “snowballs” until it’s all used up, but nitrogen and other substances don’t do this.
99.999% of the time that’s enough for anyone, and is definitely enough for the course and qualification, even though it’s only partly true, as it is actually a “buy one, get three free” deal.
Thankfully it’s very, very rare that a candidate is more “challenging”, claiming that they “need” more info than that to understand it. They don’t, it’s a ‘disruption technique’ to get attention, but I’m happy to oblige: I ask them if they’re up to A-level standard in chemistry, they BS me that they’re fine with it On the few occasions that has happened, I told them:
(3)“The complete reduction/oxidation (redox) mechanism for one molecule of O2 is a four-electron process, continually generating partially-reduced species of oxygen, each of which are more reactive than the original O2 itself, thus combustion proceeds exponentially.”
No one has ever (yet) wanted more than that - but there’s time yet! There is more, but it’s degree-level chemistry, and at that point I’d have to start drawing chemical reactions on the board and everyone else would be bored stupid because it would start to look a bit like this, and I’d have to describe things like superoxide and hydroxyl radicals etc, just to get one smartarse to wind his neck in so we can move on with the module:
4) O2- + O2- + 2H+ → H2O2 + O2 → O2 + 2H+ + 2e− → H2O2 + O2 → H2O2 + 2H+ +2e− → 2H2O etc etc
So, I think it’s much better that I don’t usually have to go further than answer number 2 
Zac_A:
stu675:
I know you’re keeping it simple, but couldn’t that be a second 6 days of work?To me, DH is no different than any other subject, “students” have to get comfortable with the basics before progressing to the more complex scenarios, otherwise they end up more confused than they were at the start, so I’m a big fan of the KISS methodology.
Here’s a similar example of the KISS method of teaching from my ADR courses. Part way through the Wednesday of the course, I tell candidates why Class 5.1 oxidizing substances are dangerous.
(1) They support combustion.
Drivers don’t need to know more detail than that, they certainly don’t need to know everything I do about how that process works.Occasionally some drivers ask: Why it is only oxygen does this and not nitrogen or anything else? I reply:
(2) It’s like a buy-one-get-one-free deal with oxygen, it “snowballs” until it’s all used up, but nitrogen and other substances don’t do this.99.999% of the time that’s enough for anyone, and is definitely enough for the course and qualification, even though it’s only partly true, as it is actually a “buy one, get three free” deal.
Thankfully it’s very, very rare that a candidate is more “challenging”, claiming that they “need” more info than that to understand it. They don’t, it’s a ‘disruption technique’ to get attention, but I’m happy to oblige: I ask them if they’re up to A-level standard in chemistry, they BS me that they’re fine with it
(3)“The complete reduction/oxidation (redox) mechanism for one molecule of O2 is a four-electron process, continually generating partially-reduced species of oxygen, each of which are more reactive than the original O2 itself, thus combustion proceeds exponentially.”No one has ever (yet) wanted more than that - but there’s time yet! There is more, but it’s degree-level chemistry, and at that point I’d have to start drawing chemical reactions on the board and everyone else would be bored stupid because it would start to look a bit like this, and I’d have to describe things like superoxide and hydroxyl radicals etc, just to get one smartarse to wind his neck in so we can move on with the module:
4) O2- + O2- + 2H+ → H2O2 + O2 → O2 + 2H+ + 2e− → H2O2 + O2 → H2O2 + 2H+ +2e− → 2H2O etc etc
So, I think it’s much better that I don’t usually have to go further than answer number 2 [emoji38] [emoji38] [emoji38]
I’m not sure when a wrong answer is ever justification for keeping it simple.
I could accept that someone could limit their max hours to 6/1, 5/2 repeat to keep within a calendar week. But the true max hrs is 6/1, 6/2 repeat (for quite a few weeks, if not indefinitely).
Ah well, I see my efforts have been wasted.
If someone can’t grasp the basics (and there’s no shortage of that to be seen right across TN on a frequent basis) it is essentially irresponsible to give them further information which they will also fail to grasp - trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot just doesn’t work - but worst of all it will lead drivers towards potential penalties, for which they will blame the person who gave them the advice.
So if you want to be the one to do that, have at it.
Me, I know better than to do that. I’ve been teaching a range of different subject for over 20 years, so I tailor information to the level of absorption the candidate displays. Having gone all the way through the education system, I can tell you that is fairly common practice to have a staged approach to learning, at each increment they “up the ante”, and you find that what you were previously taught at a lower level was only one part of the overall story.
Also, as a former driver, I’ve never agreed with the maximal-hours, minimal-rests approach: mediocre pay, poor working conditions and an expectation of zero-life-outside-work are the real blight on the industry, and the thing that prevents the younger generation seeing HGV driving as a desirable occupation, not the “DCPC driver tax” issue or any other overblown thing like that.
And if someone believes they really need to be maxxed out, then it is their responsibility to make sure they know the rules inside and out, otherwise this desperately needed money will go straight into the coffers of DVSA and not into their bank accounts.
Zac_A:
Ah well, I see my efforts have been wasted.
.
Your copious efforts seem to be misplaced [emoji43][emoji94]
Stories about oxygen were very interesting, but maybe off topic?
If■■? You can work for 6 days■■? I don’t understand how saying that you can work for 5 days is ever easier to understand. You just get pupils not knowing if they can work for 5 or 6 days.
Fully agree with the desire not to max out any of my time restrictions and to be well informed before attempting to do so if I needed to.
I think that Zac is alluding to the simple fact that there are a myriad of permutations that the savvy driver can employ to push the boundaries of legislation in a perfectly legal way, but they would be foolish to attempt it until they were completely au fait with the intricacies, so why not keep it simple for the newbie and help him/her to avoid unnecessary complications?
stu675:
Zac_A:
Ah well, I see my efforts have been wasted.
.Your copious efforts seem to be misplaced [emoji43][emoji94]
Stories about oxygen were very interesting, but maybe off topic?
It’s an analogy: appropriate knowledge for an appropriate level.
stu675:
If■■? You can work for 6 days■■? I don’t understand how saying that you can work for 5 days is ever easier to understand. You just get pupils not knowing if they can work for 5 or 6 days.
Again, it boils down to appropriate knowledge for an appropriate level: OP clearly is yet not ready to manage his own hours safely enough to avoid an infringement. It may be that his TM or transport planners are similarly ill-equipped to stay within the law and they may not be a reliable source of information. If OP gets an infringement his advisors will not be likely to take responsibility, instead batting it straight back to him - “You’re a professional driver, it’s your responsibility to know what you’re doing”. Harsh, but true.
I run TM refresher courses, and I take care to make sure TMs do not exceed the boundaries of their understanding, if they can’t “pass” my complex case study scenarios, I tell them not to push the envelope of transport planning without further consultation. I’m covered by professional indemnity insurance when I do this, but I still don’t want to have to use it, so I err a little on the side of caution, because I don’t want them blaming me for their lack of understanding.
Someone getting advice from a forum like this can’t put in a claim, but they can come back and start ■■■■■■■■ about the crappy advice they got, which may or may not have been crappy, it may have just been beyond their ability to grasp, but the person who gave the advice couldn’t see the limitations of the one receiving it.
You’re free to take those chances if you like; I choose not to do so.
The worst kind of vice is ad-vice.
Cheers Maoster, nicely summed up.
Zac_A:
stu675:
Zac_A:
Ah well, I see my efforts have been wasted.
.Your copious efforts seem to be misplaced (…)
Zac, you should take a stab at Bachelor degree, your discursive efforts may well find more substantial ends
_JD:
Zac_A:
stu675:
Zac_A:
Ah well, I see my efforts have been wasted.
.Your copious efforts seem to be misplaced (…)
Zac, you should take a stab at Bachelor degree, your discursive efforts may well find more substantial ends
Already got one, and higher quals than a B.Sc. too, but there’s more money and stability in this game than in academic science.