grumpy old man:
I agree with all that Mr Bewick has said…100%
Hell, the authorities are boarding up The Cenotaph in Whitehall to save it from being vandalised by ‘rent a mob’.
Finally making progress !! 
People who condone the illegal toppling of statue in Bristol, what next accepting lynch mobs. They don’t like the Prime Minister or they don’t like the queen the mob will grab them & hang them up in Whitehall. They should be so careful what they wish for because who knows the mob might be after one of them. No-one should take law into own hands
I maybe shouldn’t suggest this as the Idiots may try it----- Why don’t the Mob dig some of these Old Worthies up and put them on trial ? It would be the logical progression from what the Clowns are about now knocking statues over !!
dieseldog999:
am i the only one who thinks “black lifes matter” is completely ignored as being openly racist?if i went down to hyde park corner with a few white mates with banners proclaiming white lifes matter,then we would all be sitting in the same cell as tommy robinson within 5 mins.
theres no racism unless you are a white man.
No you are not the only one,see my post above “dd”!
I was sent a video of an American black guy who was an ex cop . He spoke about the unlawful killing by police in the states recently and then tore into the demonstrations. He gave the movement hell he also had a go at the white population but by no means anywhere near as severe as what he gave his black countrymen . I was shocked how he spoke but couldn’t disagree with his candid views. I’m not sure that the majority of decent black people agree with whats going on , it smacks of what happened with Brexit and the demos in London on global warming.
Seeing as this very relevant subject has been bumped off the main site it will no doubt fizzle out. However , in transport terms I can liken what is happening to the revolution we went through when Tautliners stormed onto the scene and basically replaced sheeting and roping over a matter of a few years. Since then the rather older Lads who only ever knew S & R are ridiculed by “The Curtain Pullers” mainly because the majority of them wouldn’t know where to start to S & R ! But they forget that pre Curtainsiders probably 95% of all heavy goods were hauled on flat platforms which used S & R to both cover the load and keep it secure. So what I’m getting at with this Slave controversy is that’s what happened in years gone by when Society held very different values than those of today ! But History cannot be “Air brushed” out and “sanitized” so why can’t The Idiots accept this ! THAT WAS THEN THIS IS NOW !! Bewick.
Should we stop trading with Germany and Japan over slave labour in WW2 or should we just write their debts off …
It’s coming but first:
I have always been fascinated by History, I studied it beyond O level and continue to read what my wife considers are boring books but tellingly says: “why bother you can’t do anything about it”. Very true. I think that fundamentally it was, and probably still is badly taught by many teachers, with an overwhelming concentration on facts. The teachers with whom I engaged were the ones who explored the personality of the characters involved and got behind the ‘why’ rather than concentrating just on the ‘who and when’. The personality of the participants is why so many television and Film dramas get such wide audience figures by bringing to life what could otherwise be tedious events or literature.
To continue:
I get fully that the British have an extremely tarnished history which has been inadequately portrayed to many generations of school children. It is wrong that our curriculum does not allow a more balanced appraisal of our history, fortunately the likes of Lucy Worsley are at least attempting to do so on TV. However to return to the matter of what can be done about it, the removal, damage to, or destruction of statues and memorials by mobs isn’t doing anything other than posing a direct threat to the lives of our most vulnerable citizens and to the wider population. One is left wondering quite how brainless these activists and protesters can be. The sight of white people in Bristol virtually doing a war-dance around Colston’s fallen statue and beating it with skate boards is quite frankly ironic. There may be a case for local referenda concerning the future of the most contentious monuments, but this is a matter for Parliament to debate before allowing local councils to do likewise; arbitrary decisions by local politicians wanting to be seen as politically correct are entirely wrong and do not reflect the way this country conducts itself. For those who wish to see Cecil Rhodes removed from Oriel College it would be far more appropriate for Black Lives Matters to match the financial support the college gives, from money bequeathed by Rhodes, to further the education of African students within its walls. Elsewhere, I am left wondering quite how many Black Lives Matters supporters are likely to be offended by passing the statue of Lord Kitchener in the Orkneys.
I’m sorry to say that the individual Police present at these riots have been woefully betrayed by their Common Purpose selected, politically correct leaders. I won’t post a link, but for those interested there is an interesting video (with commentary which is why it is not linked) of Saturday’s events around Winston Churchill’s memorial, which can be reached by searching for Sargon of Akhad. It clearly shows Police abandoning the site to vandalism, but chasing after a man who removes placards decrying Churchill.
I have very strong views regarding the desecration of War Memorials which revolve around pain being inflicted upon the convicted. As for immediate action required the person trying to set light to the Union Jack on the Cenotaph should have been told to get down before their shins were clattered with a truncheon.
The mealy-mouthed apologies, by media and so called celebrities with requests for past broadcast material to be proscribed is not merely sickening and ridiculous, it demonstrates a completely pathetic, overwhelming exhibition of financial self-interest. These programmes and films are part of our much loved heritage: Dad’s Army, Faulty Towers, Till Death etc, they should be available unedited albeit with a ‘potentially offensive tag’, one has a choice not to watch, the actions involved so far amount to censorship for the sake of the image sent to the politically correct. As far as the broadcasters and film makers go there have been many instances of shocking historical stories told relating to our past, from Windrush, Roots etc to tales relating to the deportation of children to the Antipodes and the treatment of pregnant girls and the removal of their babies up until the recent past. Hopefully those of a similar nature will be repeated, what I fear we shall not see repeated are those like Three Girls which show non-whites in an unfavourable light.
I am concerned to see that the press are referring to those who wish to guard the Cenotaph and Churchill’s memorial in Westminster as right wing ‘thugs’, while those acting illegally by ignoring the law about gatherings are supposedly ‘protesters’ and at the very worst ‘activists’.
For my part, in order to preserve my ability to watch one of my favourite films before the mob demands its removal from sale, I have just ordered and received the story of the 19th century heroism which resulted in the award of 11 VCs … Zulu. I make no apology, nor do I relish any of the scenes contained, I merely reserve my right to make my own choices rather than have others withdraw it.
rigsby:
I notice Mr Javelin has chucked in the usual leftist agender in a vain attempt to drag this thread into a mire of argument . I am all for reasoned discussion , but his post was directly quoted from the current leftist agender , perhaps he was asleep during history lessons . History is shades of grey , not all black and white . (Not referring to skin colour) .
“I don’t know how long my post will survive so come on Lads get stuck into the key board and put into words what you really think !! Cheers Bewick.”
Above is the question that was posed by Bewick. I posted what I think and am not trying to “drag the thread into a mire of argument”. I didn’t know that I had wandered into a secret forum belonging to the Selsdon Group.
A lot of my historical knowledge has been gleaned by being in the company of and listening to people who I held in high regard and whose opinions I respected. In respect of my comment towards Churchill (which I assume is what has inflamed your ire as I cannot believe that you condoned slavery) it in the main is based on the personal recollections of two people. One was my father who volunteered to serve on the outbreak of war in 1939, later serving with the LRDG and an army unit that was so secret its existence was not even admitted to until the last decade of the 20th century (and even today its activities are still subject to the official secrets act). The second person was an Admiral that I drove for when I was in the Royal Navy. This man, who had also served during WW2, went on to become the Vice Chief of the Defence Staff so I don’t think his views could be considered as “left wing”. He had a lot to say about Churchill - very little of it was complimentary.
Oh, and whilst I may have slept through history lessons I always stayed awake during English. People have agenda’s not agenders.
I wonder when they are going to paint the '‘WHITE’'Cliffs of Dover Brown or black to make them more welcoming to the '‘rubber boat’'brigade.Or all the WHITE horse sculptures zebra pattern.
I do apologise for my keyboard error mr javelin , but given the yawning gulf between our opinions further comment is pointless , toodle pip
Four years ago I was in Liverpool, and took one of those open-top sightseeing tours. Just in front of me was a party of four American students, including a black girl. When the commentary explained that we were passing the head offices of one of the shipping companies that had been involved in the slave trade a couple of centuries before, the girl started to let loose a whole string of openly anti-British, anti-colonialist and anti-white comments, not bothering to keep her volume down to its normal level. I politely excused my interruption, and asked her to consider where she would be if no Africans had been taken away from their native countries, and the Europeans hadn’t bothered calling in on Africa. Would she be a student at a university in one of the wealthiest nations on the planet, and able to travel widely? She said nothing, but her friends all said “he has a point”. I also asked her whether she had heard of William Wilberforce and what he was known for - she hadn’t. You can’t unwrite history, and almost every act that is unpalatable to many can have benefits for many others. That nasty Mr Hitler at least gave Germany a wonderful motorway system, and made Germany a formidable manufacturing country if nothing else.
if you want to object to history you need to know it, the biggest movers and shakers back in them far gone days were the tribal leaders who were selling their own people to the traders in exchange for western goods…
p.s I have black members in my family and they think its all bloody ridiculous. and the reason they feel this way is cause they took all the oppurtunites given to them got off their arse and made a success of their lives…
fodenway:
Four years ago I was in Liverpool, and took one of those open-top sightseeing tours. Just in front of me was a party of four American students, including a black girl. When the commentary explained that we were passing the head offices of one of the shipping companies that had been involved in the slave trade a couple of centuries before, the girl started to let loose a whole string of openly anti-British, anti-colonialist and anti-white comments, not bothering to keep her volume down to its normal level. I politely excused my interruption, and asked her to consider where she would be if no Africans had been taken away from their native countries, and the Europeans hadn’t bothered calling in on Africa. Would she be a student at a university in one of the wealthiest nations on the planet, and able to travel widely? She said nothing, but her friends all said “he has a point”. I also asked her whether she had heard of William Wilberforce and what he was known for - she hadn’t. You can’t unwrite history, and almost every act that is unpalatable to many can have benefits for many others. That nasty Mr Hitler at least gave Germany a wonderful motorway system, and made Germany a formidable manufacturing country if nothing else.
^^^^^^
“It’s an ill wind that blows nobody any good” : John Heywood 1546.
slavery is still happening.a local bunch of Travellers were not so long ago charged,and found guilty of ‘modern slavery’. i look forward to seeing black lives matter marching on their camp
I have been watching Portillo’s Empire Journey on Ch5 looking at the colonisation and consequent exploitation of countries and their people.
Catch up here
channel5.com/show/portillos-empire-journey/
Oily
There was one of these protests in my home town Plymouth a few days ago with the baying rent a mob wanting the statue of Sir Francis Drake on Plymouth Hoe taken down, in all the images and footage I’ve seen of this there were not many black faces but plenty of white middle class millennial ones, all of whom appear to have had a very limited history education and I doubt know nothing of the defeat of the Spanish Armada.
I honestly think that these naive protesters are going to do much more harm than good to the cause they think they are championing.
you cannot change history, all the bad things that happened are still happening, some people still sell their countrymen as slaves, some people see the value and become the middlemen, the purchasers still buy them,
