kr79:
Not long before I left I got talking to two smiths in scotter drivers who were off to Italy with two loaded flats and they said it was a regular occurrence.
Swains from Rochester still run flats too.
The only way I think that would make any sense v using a tilt would be if the majority,if not all,of the work was overhead loading and tipping.
Carryfast:
kr79:
Not long before I left I got talking to two smiths in scotter drivers who were off to Italy with two loaded flats and they said it was a regular occurrence.
Swains from Rochester still run flats too.The only way I think that would make any sense v using a tilt would be if the majority,if not all,of the work was overhead loading and tipping.
Eureka!
Personally i’ve no interest in competing for RDC work and the associated rates. The whole point, imho, is for loads that can’t be put into a taut/E-liner. Niche? i’d say so. Maybe not as niche as low loaders for example but certainly not as mainstream as boxes or tauts. It’s usually only flatbed jobs that see me doing any sort of distance. Something i’m sure you’d be happy about Carryout.
The more flats that are sold to africa, the better. . . . . That’ll make the ones l have worth a bit more. Try getting this lot in a Euroliner !!
Goaty:
Carryfast:
kr79:
Not long before I left I got talking to two smiths in scotter drivers who were off to Italy with two loaded flats and they said it was a regular occurrence.
Swains from Rochester still run flats too.The only way I think that would make any sense v using a tilt would be if the majority,if not all,of the work was overhead loading and tipping.
Eureka!
Personally i’ve no interest in competing for RDC work and the associated rates. The whole point, imho, is for loads that can’t be put into a taut/E-liner. Niche? i’d say so. Maybe not as niche as low loaders for example but certainly not as mainstream as boxes or tauts. It’s usually only flatbed jobs that see me doing any sort of distance. Something i’m sure you’d be happy about Carryout.
But I think in the real world the side and rear loading jobs will always make up the majority of the work while the overhead loading jobs are a minority.As that Lithuanian video showed a tilt works great even in the case of jobs which are loaded/tipped overhead at one end of a journey and side/rear at the other.Therefore using flats on anything other than overhead loading/tipping forming the majority of the work is just a load of time consuming aggravation spent sheeting side/rear loaded loads when the wagon could be up the road earning money.That’s even without the effort involved in often freezing cold,wet,hot weather for the driver.
Which is probably why there’s a lot more east european operators covering a lot more miles using tilts than British ones using flats because in most cases they can do anything with them that an operator using a flat can do.‘Niche’ in that case is actually a negative against using flats not a positive for using them.Whereas a tilt is probably the nearest it gets to the best of both worlds between a curtainsider and a flat.At least in my experience anyway. 
If there’s less people doing it means more likely the rates will be decent so you can make money which at the end of the day is what it’s about.
Obviously those flats going to Italy were chosen for a reason I’d imagine even with a full strip down a EE would quote cheaper than smiths if scotter but on certain jobs price isn’t the number one concern it’s getting a delicate fragile thing thre in one peice which is where a flat haulier can build a service based in quality of service not the bottom line. Now how smiths would fare getting a flat backloaded from Italy is another question or do they price the round trip on the journey and if they get a backload even part of the way back its a bonus.
You could get ceramics out of Italy on a flat trailer, possibly some machinery, but the point is that you could only get very occasional work down to Italy that required a flat trailer, and certainly not enough to justify keeping the thing in MOT. I worked for ten years for Fleetwood Transport, one of the very last companies to operate flat trailers into Europe, and in all that time I doubt I saw more than half-a-dozen flat trailers heading the other way.
Flat trailers are like gas street lighting or black and white televisions, something which has had its day.
kr79:
If there’s less people doing it means more likely the rates will be decent so you can make money which at the end of the day is what it’s about.
Obviously those flats going to Italy were chosen for a reason I’d imagine even with a full strip down a EE would quote cheaper than smiths if scotter but on certain jobs price isn’t the number one concern it’s getting a delicate fragile thing thre in one peice which is where a flat haulier can build a service based in quality of service not the bottom line. Now how smiths would fare getting a flat backloaded from Italy is another question or do they price the round trip on the journey and if they get a backload even part of the way back its a bonus.
Smiths load marble back from italy.
fly sheet:
Flats are great, no money pulling tauts/euroliners end of & if you think there is your deluding yourself.Most folks dont know what to do with one thats all so they slag em off, keep on your tautliners anyway & leave the flats to them who know how to charge & are asked how much they want & not what theyre getting.
+1 
Those on here quick enough to slam flat trailer operators probably would not know how to rope and sheet or use a chain and tensioner!!!
You boys crack on with your curtainsiders
jessicas dad:
kr79:
If there’s less people doing it means more likely the rates will be decent so you can make money which at the end of the day is what it’s about.
Obviously those flats going to Italy were chosen for a reason I’d imagine even with a full strip down a EE would quote cheaper than smiths if scotter but on certain jobs price isn’t the number one concern it’s getting a delicate fragile thing thre in one peice which is where a flat haulier can build a service based in quality of service not the bottom line. Now how smiths would fare getting a flat backloaded from Italy is another question or do they price the round trip on the journey and if they get a backload even part of the way back its a bonus.Smiths load marble back from italy.
Smith of Scotter, Bowkers and Swains managed Italy with flat trailers, two of them still do, anyone trying to save a bit of fuel would do better to ditch the umbrella on their trailer 
Wingnut was Bowkers flat man in Europe… 
markwill:
newmercman:
Moose:
no need to explain about flats as i have owned and operated them since 1998 so i have some basic knowlage on the subject!
thanks for your helpful input though
mooseOooooo, sarcasm
So you know that a flat trailer is now a specialised piece of equipment, in which case why would you not use that to your advantage
The customer needs a flat trailer to haul goods down into the back of beyond, so you charge accordingly or you line something up to come back with before you take on the job
If you just take on the job and leave it to chance to find a backload that you need because you haven’t charged the job out the right way in the first place then, well, you’re a [zb]ing idiot and although I’m sure you’ll moan that it isn’t your fault, it is your fault, your’s and all the other idiots who invest tens of thousands of pounds in equipment and then run around for two balloons and a goldfish to keep the customer happy
i think you need too get yourself into the real world,
I live in the real world, a world where people are free to do as they please, in my case that would be being aware of my value and not running around for nothing, I learned this through making the mistake of running around for peanuts, but learned from the experience and the one thing that stood out for me was that if you can’t beat em, join em is a silly thing to do, stand your ground, build a reputation based on service, not price and you’ll never look back, but each to his own
Harry, you’re doing it again, talking about business models ffs, I wonder if the companies involved in the oil and gas industry work would agree with your sentiments 
The Boys Own:
fly sheet:
Flats are great, no money pulling tauts/euroliners end of & if you think there is your deluding yourself.Most folks dont know what to do with one thats all so they slag em off, keep on your tautliners anyway & leave the flats to them who know how to charge & are asked how much they want & not what theyre getting.
+1
Those on here quick enough to slam flat trailer operators probably would not know how to rope and sheet or use a chain and tensioner!!!
You boys crack on with your curtainsiders
Or maybe do know how to rope and sheet compared to just tying down a load on a curtainsider or a tilt without needing to bother with also having to sheet it. 
Although some seem to think that a curtain will hold a load on just like they think a sheet will.
When the fact is there’s no difference whatsoever between a curtainsider,tilt or a flat in all being effectively flats from the point of view of tying the load down when using any of them.The only difference being that it’s only the flat that needs to be sheeted to keep the load dry.
Carryfast:
The Boys Own:
fly sheet:
Flats are great, no money pulling tauts/euroliners end of & if you think there is your deluding yourself.Most folks dont know what to do with one thats all so they slag em off, keep on your tautliners anyway & leave the flats to them who know how to charge & are asked how much they want & not what theyre getting.
+1
Those on here quick enough to slam flat trailer operators probably would not know how to rope and sheet or use a chain and tensioner!!!
You boys crack on with your curtainsidersOr maybe do know how to rope and sheet compared to just tying down a load on a curtainsider or a tilt without needing to bother with also having to sheet it.
Although some seem to think that a curtain will hold a load on just like they think a sheet will.
When the fact is there’s no difference whatsoever between a curtainsider,tilt or a flat in all being effectively flats from the point of view of tying the load down when using any of them.The only difference being that it’s only the flat that needs to be sheeted to keep the load dry.
My point is too many on here saying the flat is out dated
FACT there is still a requirement for flat trailers in this modern logistics world
Unfortunately not enough good men out there able and want flat trailer work
The Boys Own:
Carryfast:
The Boys Own:
fly sheet:
Flats are great, no money pulling tauts/euroliners end of & if you think there is your deluding yourself.Most folks dont know what to do with one thats all so they slag em off, keep on your tautliners anyway & leave the flats to them who know how to charge & are asked how much they want & not what theyre getting.
+1
Those on here quick enough to slam flat trailer operators probably would not know how to rope and sheet or use a chain and tensioner!!!
You boys crack on with your curtainsidersOr maybe do know how to rope and sheet compared to just tying down a load on a curtainsider or a tilt without needing to bother with also having to sheet it.
Although some seem to think that a curtain will hold a load on just like they think a sheet will.
When the fact is there’s no difference whatsoever between a curtainsider,tilt or a flat in all being effectively flats from the point of view of tying the load down when using any of them.The only difference being that it’s only the flat that needs to be sheeted to keep the load dry.
My point is too many on here saying the flat is out dated
FACT there is still a requirement for flat trailers in this modern logistics world
Unfortunately not enough good men out there able and want flat trailer work
As I said I think you can then split that argument between those who think that a tilt is a much better,easier to use and more versatile piece of kit than a flat.It’s probably from the time when those started being used regularly here on international work that,arguably,made the flat as obsolete here as it’s mostly been on the continent for years.
Given the choice I’d choose working with a tilt over a flat.
Carryfast:
Given the choice I’d choose working with a tilt over a flat.
That just proves you are stark raving bonkers 
bowkertransport.co.uk/index.html
I don’t see many tilts in these fleets, but they do run flats
Wheel Nut:
Carryfast:
Given the choice I’d choose working with a tilt over a flat.That just proves you are stark raving bonkers
bowkertransport.co.uk/index.html
I don’t see many tilts in these fleets, but they do run flats
From the point of view of a small operation,looking for maximum versatility,employed on a mixture of overhead and probably mostly side/rear loaded general haulage,for minimum outlay and from the point of view of a driver and in which the choice as I said is between a curtainsider or a flat or a tilt 
.
Maybe that’s one of the reasons for the relative success of many of the east european operations who still seem to agree with my idea.
Maybe but the driver working for a third of a Western Europe wage and the deals to upgrade from kamaz’s to more modern kit at very little cost probably done more
Harry Monk:
You could get ceramics out of Italy on a flat trailer, possibly some machinery, but the point is that you could only get very occasional work down to Italy that required a flat trailer, and certainly not enough to justify keeping the thing in MOT. I worked for ten years for Fleetwood Transport, one of the very last companies to operate flat trailers into Europe, and in all that time I doubt I saw more than half-a-dozen flat trailers heading the other way.Flat trailers are like gas street lighting or black and white televisions, something which has had its day.
Hc Wilson
MDF of gr Yarmouth
Grampian
Smiths of Scotter
My point is targeting specific, worthwhile work, generally won’t include high volume movements of bog roll or baked beans.
These need to be covered, a 40’ vessel, for example doesn’t.
Any one of these firms can buy a taut liner if they saw fit to do so. All of them are established international outfits.
A tilt is too much faffing about on uk work,we have the flatbeds for our machinery work, extendable low loaders for our silo work, and curtain siders for our palletised or general work, a tilt would take to long on general haulage, i have done it,i reckon its harder work than a flat, i tried to get the customers to use sliding roof curtainsiders , they wouldnt have it.if you stripped down a tilt on site to make a flatbed, where would you put the sheet ,the planks ,and the substructure? Secondly i have a flat running to edinburgh today from bristol, i havent even bothered to try for a backload,just isnt worth the bother anymore!
When I was flogging Mercs, the people buying new lorries were mostly speccing them with flatbeds, I know they’re not trailers, but the point is, the ones running flats were buying new equipment, the general hauliers with curtain siders were not, don’t know about you, but the state of the new truck market tells me where the money is/was/will be
richmond:
A tilt is too much faffing about on uk work,we have the flatbeds for our machinery work, extendable low loaders for our silo work, and curtain siders for our palletised or general work, a tilt would take to long on general haulage, i have done it,i reckon its harder work than a flat, i tried to get the customers to use sliding roof curtainsiders , they wouldnt have it.if you stripped down a tilt on site to make a flatbed, where would you put the sheet ,the planks ,and the substructure? Secondly i have a flat running to edinburgh today from bristol, i havent even bothered to try for a backload,just isnt worth the bother anymore!
So an operator who wants to run just a few wagons at most,more likely just one,would need to buy all those different types to do what a tilt will cover in most cases.As for it not being possible for tilts to be used in their stripped state that would have probably wiped out some of the general haulage international tramping possibilities of the 1970’s/80’s.
But the only way that a tilt would be harder work than a flat would be in the case,as I’ve said,where the majority of the work is overhead loaded.Whereas,at least in my case,it more than made up for the aggravation of stripping it for the few overhead jobs,with it’s advantages in doing the side/rear loaded jobs where it had all the advantages of a curtainsider over a flat.
