I answer your question but first can you give me a defintion of what sin actually is?
Is it something the Bible forbids?
Or is it something something society forbids?
I cant take this any further until you give me a clear definition of what sin is,in your book
Sploom:
I answer your question but first can you give me a defintion of what sin actually is?
Is it something the Bible forbids?
Or is it something something society forbids?
I cant take this any further until you give me a clear definition of what sin is,in your book
Oh come on mate,…As you well know my interpretation of sin as an ordinary and non religious bloke is a lot different to yours.
Your opinions are shackled and controlled by the official line of your sect, religion or whatever, mine ain’t,. I think purely for myself.
So my opinions are purely mine, and are certainly not based nor governed on something I am told to think…as yours are.
So you know exactly what I mean…
Does your church take the official view,.on what I asked, that homosexuals are ‘sinners’ in the context of your code,.and if that is the case,.can they enter what you see as ‘heaven’ under those circumstances.
My opinion is I am a live and let live man, people can shag who tf they like as long as it involves mutually consenting adults.
Sure,.I can not see the attraction of homosexuality,.I also find most of the stuff they do a bit off putting…,.but I make no apology for that,.as it is exactly what makes me a straight heterosexual man.
Do I think they are wrong or ‘sinners’ ?
Of course I don’t.
But from what I have heard and experienced is most of these more radical movements of most religions are a bit right wing (hence my ■■■■ implications 
) ,.narrow minded,.and certainly bigots…not to mention a lot of times hypocrites as well. 
The Bible forbids homosexuality,so it must be classed as a sin.But it is up to God who gets into Heaven.We are told not to judge.
“For all are sinners, and fall short of the glory of God”. (Romans 3:23)
“Hate the sin, but love the sinner”.
A philosophical look at the different denominations of religious faith
As a liberal person at heart, I’ll make friends with all, regardless of their lifestyle.
This permits me to have, for example gay friends.
However there’s no way I will ever accept the act of “Man lying with Men as with Women” as any way “Normal”, nor will I have it preached to me that acts specifically banned in the Bible are “Ok”.
Even “Fornication” between consenting adult Men and Women is banned, after all - so it’s hardly an unlevel playing field here. A guy who goes around as “Jack the Lad” porking everything in sight with a hole between their legs - is as bad as Johnny Jockstrap down at the Gym having you over a bollard, after you made the mistake of drinking too much in his presence…
Christ himself - didn’t have any issues eating at the tables of Sinners, even “loose women” such as Mary Magdalene. The law says certain offenders should be stoned, Christ says “Any of you without sin - can cast that first stone”… Everyone walks off, muttering under their breath…
The example a convert is supposed to set however - is to renounce their past sins, and “Amend their lives”.
That’s a big ask for people who have that particular sin as their entire LIFESTYLE.
Something done on the spur of the moment, as a “one-off” however - is clearly going to be an easier sin to renounce.
A Curate once described to me “Sin” and the “Forgiveness of Sins” like this:-
A Cleric asks two penitent men seeking redemption from past sins:-
"Go and pick up stones and rocks that represent the size of your sins, and bring them here in this wheelbarrow."
A - goes and finds the largest boulder he can find, and brings this ton-weight boulder back in the wheelbarrow…
B - goes around gathering small pebbles, stones, and even scrapes up a bit of gravel off the ground - loads it into the wheelbarrow, and brings it back… A ton weight of gravel, stones, pebbles, and what might be called “Aggregate”.
TWO concepts here:
The weight of material in both wheelbarrows is the SAME.
Cleric then says “To have those sins forgiven - you must now put them back exactly where you found them…”
Boulder guy - finds the big dent in the ground where he got his boulder from, puts it back, and dances off into the sunset, “all forgiven”. Job Done!
Aggregate Guy - mutters an expletive to himself, and wanders off uttering “All is lost. It is too late for me”.
It is easier to be forgiven the huge, but one-off sins than the many, “small” ones.
“Amending one’s life” isn’t about Murderers keeping their promise to “never kill again”, but rather “nasty people” that keep within the law, but are far worse sinners than many an occupant of a jail cell.
One possible solution, and way forward for the “recent convert” is in becoming rather more laid-back, and pleasant in their nature, to both themselves and others…
“Heaven” is up there, whilst “Hell” is very much "down here" rather than down there.
To die in one’s sins then - is to be left marooned on this poxy planet, unable to ascend above and beyond it.
You don’t “Go to Hell” - you simply “Never Leave It” like the Hotel California…
I was brought up CofE, but now reject what that has become.
It doesn’t mean I have “lost my faith”, but merely need to change the denomination of Church I still feel I have something in common with.
Too much emphasis on “Evangelism” I feel, gives the overall Church a bad name, and makes everything Christians say to the outside world a “Hard Sell” all the time. Not good.
“Remove the log from thine own eye, Brother”…
I don’t feel I can do justice to the Faith by becoming any kind of “Makeshift Priest” in my enthusiasm for my new faith. “Amending my life” - matters far more, and should be given priority.
People notice from being around you, if that made any positive or negative difference…
It is harder for Evil to happen to people of Faith for example.
“Deliver us from Evil” - is a fundemental line of the Lord’s Prayer which has been quietly left OUT of modern, organized religions (now controlled by Deep State, like so many other things, imo)
If you lose personal judgement over what is spiritually dangers and what is benign - you won’t recognize that you are even under attack - until it is too late.
The Bible speaks of a quarter of Mankind being killed by the actions of Man, and a third of what remains - perishing from the “Wrath of God” more directly, that then follows.
100% reducing to 75% and then by another third - leaves exactly 50%
Literally every other person - stands to perish IF the Tribulation as depicted in the Book of Revelation - is already in progress now…
The Deep State will tell you that “Climate Change” rather than “God’s Wrath” will be the thing killing you.
The Deep State will tell you that “The Christian Far Right” or “The Muslim Jihad” or “The Jewish Merchant” will kill you, rather than the damnation that comes from failing to realize you are playing for the wrong team up until now…
Russia has moved on a lot since the collapse of Communism. Atheism as their state religion - is no more.
There are only two states of Faith: Believer and Non Believer. There is no “Right and Wrong Faith”.
There’s great pressure to prevent any kind of “British Empire Revival”.
There is currently an enormous effort to prevent a “Byzantine Empire Revival” as well.
The administration that was Byzantium - lasted over a thousand years, and was more efficient, albeit it’s similar failings - than the present EU. To be brought down by the rapidly advancing Ottomans, which by modern standards would be considered “Right Wing” to Constantinople’s “liberal” regime.
“Put off thy sandals, for the place in which thou standest - is Holy Ground”.
There are far too many world regimes in today’s world that have only play actors running them. Acting at being of “Faith” when in fact they are all Atheists at best, believing in nothing but their own means to deceive the masses, or worse - “Satanists” that still outwardly defer to the old religion, but work against the Godly ones.
Devout Christians - have the same enemies as devout Muslims and Jews.
Perhaps one day all three splintered factions will realize this, and sit down together to make this Earth a fit place for Christ to return to…
Winseer.
Just read everything you wrote,very good
Sploom:
The Bible forbids homosexuality,so it must be classed as a sin.But it is up to God who gets into Heaven.We are told not to judge.
And there we have it…, true colours…repressed, narrow minded,.self righteous, dangerous religious bigotry in it’s purest form.
Finally got there in the end. 
Let’s get ‘the camps’ back running and stoked up.
Love thy neighbour my arse.
Star down under.
I think with the eye for eye rule,Jesus did away with that.Now,we’re supposed to turn the other cheek.
Its like the death penalty,prescribed in genesis,but most churches dont agree with it,although the church I attend holds fast to the death penalty.
I dont know what to make of it.I wouldnt like to be the one to carry it out
Robroy.I answered your question a long time ago
You told me you make the judgement about right and wrong yourself.Does that make you self righteous by definition?You dont go to God when making a judgement on whether something is right or wrong
I dont think Im righteous.Im a fallen sinner,thats why I need Jesus as a saviour
Sploom:
Winseer.
Just read everything you wrote
So you’re the one!
Im the one,what?
Oh,I get it now.bit slow this time of the morning
Robroy.
Just wandering,if you were brought up in a Christian home,did you ever raise this isdue of homosexuality with them?
Or did you decide to just keep it as a card to play so you can back a Christian into a corner…
It maybe the case that something made out of flesh and blood cannot EVER leave this planet in that state.
Consider what can and DOES leave this planet moment by moment though…
Radio Signals?
Is the Soul actually a Signal?
I remember as a Radio Ham when I was young that you can run a crystal set with nothing more than a good earth (wire connected to a radiator pipe) and a good aerial (wire connected to my Mum’s washing line)
There was no need for batteries - the power to run the thing came from what was gathered between that aerial and earth…
A tuning circuit was required to seperate something recognizable from the otherwise white noise on all channels.
“White Noise” is supposed to be the combined noise of galaxies, and other radio sources throughout the Universe…
You didn’t even need “Transistors” for amplification, nor Valves… A Crystal Earpiece/High Resistance Headphones (telegraph old-fashioned kind…) permitted a signal to be received…
The hardest part of the Crystal set to come up with - was the Diode.
A piece of Piano wire wrapped into a coil by winding it around a knitting needle, and allowed to lightly brush against a piece of coke screwed down onto the base…
Before Radio was discovered, we had no idea of the myriad of signals flying all around us.
Like the “Soul” - it is something that cannot be felt, seen, smelled, tasted - but it is there nonetheless.
Kids today - have no idea how things work, no idea how to build anything - something that disappeared from our schools about the same time as Milk and Prayers, alas…
Adults cannot boil an egg without a Youtube video showing them how to do it…
What then happens if the Internet gets broken by a world power failure at some point in the future, perhaps caused my a global Electromagnetic Pulse?
The people that can remember how to build practical objects out of bits from good old fashioned BOOKS by way of guide - will be our new masters in the world - NOT the “Globalist Elites” who know the price of everything - and the value of nothing!
I cannot be an “Unbeliever” - because to me, it is like “Not believing in Electricity/Radio/Chemistry/Gravity/Travel faster than 30mph”…
You don’t have to be an Electrician to make good use of that power though… You DO have to fundementally understand Electricity to be an electrician however…
“Getting to Heaven” for me is a quest that goes alongside “Making it through Space” or “Colonizing another world”.
As drivers - we should all have some kind of internal navigation ability, to find our way around places we’ve never been without maps or advice given…
How many of us could actually do that in reality though?
If your soul could fly wherever you wanted as a “Signal”, most would aim for bright spots such as bright stars…
Imagine everyone congregating around Sirius, Betelgeuse, or Vega - surely with worlds too hot for life as we know it to exist on planets in these systems?
I doubt if many people could point out “Sun-like” stars in the night sky, let alone name them… There’s plenty of them, but again - people today, just don’t seem interested in “looking up” any more. Where’s the “Wonder” gone?
“Those who do not accept the Kingdom of Heaven such as a small child would - shall never enter it.” Luke 18:17
Wow,thats amazing stuff,its a pity they cant harness this free energy and use it instead of burning fossil fuels.
Look forward to the next life when God will let us whizz through space!Or back in time,that would be more fun…
Stephen Fry says “Bone Cancer in Children - What’s all THAT about?” as an argument against the existence of God…
Gravity, Electricity, Heat, Light - are everywhere, even if very faint/weak in some areas…
Our small planet - doesn’t figure much in the greater scheme of things. Fry’s argument is like telling a Hindu “Why didn’t you save that insect that was about to get trodden on by your work colleage over there?”
Just because God can be everywhere and anywhere in the Universe at once, there’s no built-in need for God to continuously intervene every five seconds, when we have all the rules written down for us already, and should know better how to behave - if we don’t want bad, but predictable things to happen to us…
The Universe - wasn’t created for us. More likely we were created FOR it.
Sploom:
Robroy.
Just wandering,if you were brought up in a Christian home,did you ever raise this isdue of homosexuality with them?
Or did you decide to just keep it as a card to play so you can back a Christian into a corner…
Don’t dare tar me with the same brush as yourself and your ilk mate,.I never try and force or impose my ways on anybody.
This debate between me and you started a while ago in another thread, you opened it all up, not me…because you had the bare faced cheek to try and feed me a load of unewlcome religious dog ■■■■ in the form of a reply to one of my posts,.all of which may I add was totally irrelevant to what we were discussing,.as your lot do at every ■■■■ opportunity…
So I ain’t trying to back ANYBODY into a corner fyi. 
You are right, I was brought up in a (non radical ) Christian home, My earliest memory of my Granda was seeing him praying before he went to bed,.and again in a morning, but not once did he ever try and force his beliefs on me.
The closest thing was when he used to tell me Bible stories at bed time,.which he used to ad lib and put in his own context,.and there are some real good stories in the Bible for kids.
I remember asking him always to tell me about Noah’s ark,.and he would put his own spin on it, by telling me what the animals used to say to each other,.so it was never done in a preaching nor will forcing cynical way as your mad ■■■ preachers deliver it, ,.then again he used to tell me about Rupert Bear,.so he was not religiously obsessed by any stretch.
As for raising the question of homosexuality with my grandparents and parents. 
…
What a bizzare question.,.why tf would I ever do that, unless I was that way inclined myself.
I do know that if I did,.I would be told to live and let live,.everybody is equal,.so do not judge people as it is not your place…and that is because they had TRUE Christian values, not some twisted bigoted primitive madcap version of the faith as you clearly have.
Does that answer your question at all??
Oh ffs.
It looks like Winseer is also a member of the political wing of ‘The God Squad’ also.
Come to think of it,.that does explain quite a lot. 
the maoster:
Sploom:
Winseer.
Just read everything you wroteSo you’re the one!
A match made in Heaven.
Quite literally . :
Yes you answered my question.Weve now established that you are selective in the questions you put to me and if your grandparents were alive you wouldnt be pushing them for an answer on whether homosexuality is a sin or not,like you do with me.
OK,now we got that out of the way,Im sorry but I never force my beliefs on anyone.If I did,I would be ordering you to report to the church on Sunday or reading parts of the Bible.Have I done this?
It would be impossible anyway,Christianity has to be a voluntary choice.
Now about what you call TRUE Christianity.We are told to love thy neighbour as oneself.But we cant bend the truth.If you were to ask me if I classed something as a sin,Im duty bound to be brutaly honest,because,if I say otherwise,Im lying and further,thats not loving thy neighbour,thats self love.That would be putting my reputation above any concern I have for the persons soul.
If you ask me if watching ■■■■ is a sin,I will say,yes,it definitly is and will get you into hell for it.
I cant and wont give any comfort to sinners.My answer will always be to repent of the sin,put it to death,run from it,the reason being,I dont want you to face Gods wrath for the sin.
Sploom:
Yes you answered my question.Weve now established that you are selective in the questions you put to me and if your grandparents were alive you wouldnt be pushing them for an answer on whether homosexuality is a sin or not,like you do with me.
OK,now we got that out of the way,Im sorry but I never force my beliefs on anyone.If I did,I would be ordering you to report to the church on Sunday or reading parts of the Bible.Have I done this?
It would be impossible anyway,Christianity has to be a voluntary choice.
Now about what you call TRUE Christianity.We are told to love thy neighbour as oneself.But we cant bend the truth.If you were to ask me if I classed something as a sin,Im duty bound to be brutaly honest,because,if I say otherwise,Im lying and further,thats not loving thy neighbour,thats self love.That would be putting my reputation above any concern I have for the persons soul.
If you ask me if watching ■■■■ is a sin,I will say,yes,it definitly is and will get you into hell for it.
I cant and wont give any comfort to sinners.My answer will always be to repent of the sin,put it to death,run from it,the reason being,I dont want you to face Gods wrath for the sin.
Oh ffs we’ve now gone into full on religious fire and brimstone hysteria,.as you lot always do…talk about giving enough rope.
You don’t get it do you?
I could not give a ■■■■ what my Grandparents views were on homosexuality,.even though by knowing how liberal (and Christian in the true sense) they were that they would not have the audacity to pass judgement on any group of people…I have already told you this once.
So of course I am selective about what I would ask them and what I challenge you on, why would I not be, unless they were as conceited as you and your type are and think they had a right to judge people whom they knew nothing about…So baically, ■■■■ your ‘Getting that out of the way’’ comment.
Of course you try and force stuff on people, you tried it on me …(again as I’ve already told you once.).on a mundane and unrelated subject on a forum.
Get this…it’s unwelcome to most of us mate,.the same as if any other whatever the religion, nutter tried to radicalise you on, by direct or indirect means, nobody wants it.!!.
You single out watching ■■■■…(incidenrally who tf brought that one up btw feeling a bit guilty by any chance ? )
Religion is like a strict diet,.everybody likes eating the good stuff, the steaks,.the chocolate, but the diet says it is wrong,.stick to the lettuce and cress, if you get the analogy,.and that is what it is all about,.the basis of any religious code…repression and going against a natural way of doing things.
Natural stuff like ■■■■■■ urges towards other women, and satisfying those urges, for eg, ie a NATURAL human activity which is controlled by different people at different levels, which should and would suffice…but hey! let’s call it a '‘SIN’,.that will sure as hell frighten them into living by OUR code…and that is an example of the origin of religion…ie imposing a will.
As for the rest of your rant…same old religious crap which shows you up to your true form,.and vindicates most of my opinions on you and your type,.which I CBA to comment on.