Has anyone had any experience of working for Reliance, an agency? I’m currently on a placement for them, been there 8 weeks, and have a slight issue. It seems, after asking about holiday pay, I was told “we don’t pay holidays, if you’re not working you’re not earning”. Every other agency I’ve worked for has paid holidays, and as far as I know, I’m entitled to paid holidays, so what’s their game, how do they manage to get away with it? And what is the best way to deal with it? Leaving is one option, but I’m 8 weeks in to a placement that could become perm so I’m reluctant to go down that route.
Are you being paid through an Umbrella company? Or are you registered as Self-Employed? Sorry if they come across as patronising questions but they have to be asked!
If not, and you’re on their books as PAYE, then you’re owed holiday on a pro-rata basis. It won’t be a great deal of money whatsoever if you’ve only worked for 8 weeks, but you’re certainly owed it.
I’d definitely hang on for another 4 weeks with the placement, after 12 weeks they have to adhere to the AWR so it’s the best opportunity for you to be offered a permanent position. I’d also recommend ringing the Reliance Head Office and speaking to their Accounts department as opposed to the Consultant you’re dealing with.
Not patronising at all, I should have said to start with. I’m PAYE, not umbrella or self employed, as in I get a payslip and they’ve paid my NI and tax.
SuffolkLad:
Not patronising at all, I should have said to start with. I’m PAYE, not umbrella or self employed, as in I get a payslip and they’ve paid my NI and tax.
Do they pay you your holiday pay in your weekly amount, it has to be written on your payslip, or are they trying to get out of it by writing in in the contract you signed, which may not be legal now ■■?(unsure) …someone here must know , if not Gov website will have info surely.
Or wait till you get a permanent job before rocking the boat.?
If you’re PAYE with payslips (the only legit kind in any case) then you are required to be paid holiday pay in some form or other.
Firms saying “We don’t have to pay holiday pay” is like them saying “We don’t have to pay minimum wage if your surname has vowels in it”
Get the job at the client, then shop the agency to HMRC. 
On closer examination, they might be pocketing the money they’ve “deducted” for your paye tax and NICs, (something I’ve referred to as “pseudo PAYE” in other posts) and then you’ll get a hefty bill from HMRC at year’s end, which of course makes it less likely you’ll want to get them involved. ‘Don’t aid and abet such firms in ripping off both yourself, and HMRC’ is my big bit of advice here. Such a firm would of course get rid of you before the end of the tax year, so they can say they’ve washed their hands of any comebacks you might otherwise pursue. 
Agency i worked for promised to sort my holiday pay out when i left after about 8 months, they then went bust, i registered as a creditor and received all the holiday pay i was owed albeit probably a year later…and thanks is due to the Receiver who was very helpful.
FreddieSwan:
Are you being paid through an Umbrella company? Or are you registered as Self-Employed? Sorry if they come across as patronising questions but they have to be asked!If not, and you’re on their books as PAYE, then you’re owed holiday on a pro-rata basis. It won’t be a great deal of money whatsoever if you’ve only worked for 8 weeks, but you’re certainly owed it.
I’d definitely hang on for another 4 weeks with the placement, after 12 weeks they have to adhere to the AWR so it’s the best opportunity for you to be offered a permanent position. I’d also recommend ringing the Reliance Head Office and speaking to their Accounts department as opposed to the Consultant you’re dealing with.
Freddie as you will already know as you work for an agency most agencies do not adhere to the AWR, the AWR would be a wonderful thing for agency workers if there was not so many loopholes for the agencies to avoid it
Isn’t it an irony that the firms that fiddle are the first ones to go bust?
“Cheats never prosper” Unless they’re pi keys.
mac12:
Freddie as you will already know as you work for an agency most agencies do not adhere to the AWR, the AWR would be a wonderful thing for agency workers if there was not so many loopholes for the agencies to avoid it
Trust that wasn’t a dig Mac 
Sympathise with the point concerning loopholes, but unfortunately for the agency, their Terms of Business are probably in-line with AWR and therefore after 12 weeks he could very likely apply direct to the firm without causing them any problems with fees etc. which is what I was getting at moreso than worrying about pay parity and such.
My agency certainly use Swedish Derogation but it’s very, very rare and usually client dependant. The big 24/7 operations with a high % of agency staffing are generally the only ones that utilise it, and even then the majority of their permanent recruitment comes via the agency (in my experience).
mac12:
the AWR would be a wonderful thing for agency workers if there was not so many loopholes for the agencies to avoid it
The scumbags are all in it together. Agencies and companies are complicit in avoiding the AWR. If all agencies said no to companies, that they had to do AWR, then companies would probably take on more permanent staff as they’d be paying more for agency drivers.
I work for an agency at a company that adheres to the AWR but I’ve never heard of any others that do, they manage to wriggle out of it one way or another.
No dig at you Freddie, one of the things the AWR was brought in for was to get the bigger companies that use a lot of agency staff to take them on this would be no good for the agencies as they don’t earn when workers leave them that is why they use regulation 10, self employed and umbrella fiddles.
I don’t think it is all down to the agencies avoiding the AWR I am sure some companies don’t want to pay the extra so they have to use the above but I know of firms that have permanent agency staff working for them and they should not be allowed to get away with not paying. Other thing as well is how many firms follow the AWR and pay the agency more for the staff but the agency keep the money for themselves
SuffolkLad:
Has anyone had any experience of working for Reliance, an agency? … It seems, after asking about holiday pay, I was told “we don’t pay holidays, if you’re not working you’re not earning”. Every other agency I’ve worked for has paid holidays, and as far as I know, I’m entitled to paid holidays, so what’s their game, how do they manage to get away with it? .
Hi
This agency full name is Reliance Employment Ltd.
A contract what you have signed is a ‘Contract for services’. In the contract is written (Reliance Emp - Contractor, worker - Sub Contractor):
-
- paragraph 2 - This Contract represents a business relationship between the parties with the Subcontractor supplying the Contractor as a client with his business services.
-
- paragraph 3 - It is an express objective of this contract that these terms shall not, under any circumstances whatsoever, either give rise to, or permit the formation of,
(a) …
(b) …
(c) the Sub Contractor becoming a ‘Worker’ (as defined by the Working Time Regulations) with respect to either the Contractor of the Client.
- paragraph 3 - It is an express objective of this contract that these terms shall not, under any circumstances whatsoever, either give rise to, or permit the formation of,
-
- paragraph 10 - If supplying additional or substitute labour the Sub Contractor is responsible for ensuring that any nominees, sub contractors or employees are suitable qualified and competent to complete the assignment on his behalf.
It is the contract business to business. It means you should run your business and you are not an agency worker.
In addition paragraph 10 says that you have permission to send your workers or your subcontractors to work in your behalf.
Reliance Emp. does not explain what kind of contract it is during the registration. In addition a worker receives payslips and a p60 form each year so everything looks like a worker works as an agency worker.
Everything what you can do is lodge a claim against Reliance Emp. to the Employment Tribunal.
At the beginning pay a fee about £1300 and you have to have strong evidence. You have to prove that you are a worker not self employed. Payslips, p60 forms and your employment status that you do not run a business are very weak arguments.
Remember, you have signed this contract and it means that you know what is written there and you have agreed with this. Important is what you do in your job, who supervise you, is there someone who works directly and does the same work what you, etc.
Of course Reliance Emp. will explain in the Employment Tribunal that you have received all necessary information during the registration.
If you consider all possibilities better and easier is find another job than fight with Reliance Emp.
I guess that about 0.01% workers lodge a claim to the ET maybe less. 0.01% means 1 per 10000.
IT IS VERY SAD!!
Kind regards.
restero:
your employment status that you do not run a business are very weak arguments.
I would have thought the argument that he is not in fact running a business would be a decisive argument which unequivocally establishes his entitlement to holiday pay.
Remember, you have signed this contract and it means that you know what is written there and you have agreed with this. Important is what you do in your job, who supervise you, is there someone who works directly and does the same work what you, etc.
Of course Reliance Emp. will explain in the Employment Tribunal that you have received all necessary information during the registration.
It wouldn’t really matter. Having established that he is a worker, holiday pay must follow. He cannot waive it by agreement. This is what supports our rights, otherwise there would only ever be positions for those willing to waive their holiday pay.
If you consider all possibilities better and easier is find another job than fight with Reliance Emp.
I guess that about 0.01% workers lodge a claim to the ET maybe less. 0.01% means 1 per 10000.
IT IS VERY SAD!!Kind regards.
Depends what’s at stake. There’s nothing to stop you claiming after the permanent position has begun, or after you have left.
mac12:
Freddie as you will already know as you work for an agency most agencies do not adhere to the AWR, the AWR would be a wonderful thing for agency workers if there was not so many loopholes for the agencies to avoid it
There is only one loophole, the Swedish Derogation. The agency I work for have paid me when they’ve had no work for me under this derogation because the alternative would be to pay me over £5000.
Quite like the agency I’m with other than they use the usual “average over the last 12 weeks” way of calculating holiday pay so you have to be a bit careful with the timing.
Rjan:
restero:
your employment status that you do not run a business are very weak arguments.I would have thought the argument that he is not in fact running a business would be a decisive argument which unequivocally establishes his entitlement to holiday pay.
Remember, you have signed this contract and it means that you know what is written there and you have agreed with this. Important is what you do in your job, who supervise you, is there someone who works directly and does the same work what you, etc.
Of course Reliance Emp. will explain in the Employment Tribunal that you have received all necessary information during the registration.It wouldn’t really matter. Having established that he is a worker, holiday pay must follow. He cannot waive it by agreement. This is what supports our rights, otherwise there would only ever be positions for those willing to waive their holiday pay.
If you consider all possibilities better and easier is find another job than fight with Reliance Emp.
I guess that about 0.01% workers lodge a claim to the ET maybe less. 0.01% means 1 per 10000.
IT IS VERY SAD!!Kind regards.
Depends what’s at stake. There’s nothing to stop you claiming after the permanent position has begun, or after you have left.
jesus what he is saying is reliance will have got him to sign up as a ltd company if he has signed a contract saying this whether explained or not he is screwed.
I am guessing he has seeing as 99% of drivers want to fill out forms as quick as they can and not read them, has signed this sort of contract, therefore he will lose in a court.
war1974:
jesus what he is saying is reliance will have got him to sign up as a ltd company if he has signed a contract saying this whether explained or not he is screwed.
I am guessing he has seeing as 99% of drivers want to fill out forms as quick as they can and not read them, has signed this sort of contract, therefore he will lose in a court.
I didn’t see anywhere that the OP had set up a limited company. If he is genuinely running as a limited company, keeping accounts, and benefitting from tax breaks, he’s not likely to succeed.
Also, the contract may not be enforceable if it is a sham, or (if you didn’t read it) if it concerns something fundamentally different from what you could have expected (exemplified by those films where a person signs and then a scroll is allowed to unravel to the floor!).
this thread was started 3 years ago
Conor:
mac12:
Freddie as you will already know as you work for an agency most agencies do not adhere to the AWR, the AWR would be a wonderful thing for agency workers if there was not so many loopholes for the agencies to avoid itThere is only one loophole, the Swedish Derogation. The agency I work for have paid me when they’ve had no work for me under this derogation because the alternative would be to pay me over £5000.
Quite like the agency I’m with other than they use the usual “average over the last 12 weeks” way of calculating holiday pay so you have to be a bit careful with the timing.
Why would they have to pay you £5000?
mac12:
Why would they have to pay you £5000?
Difference between the hourly rate the agency pay me and the hourly rate the client pays their own drivers which I’d be entitled to having been there for more than 12 weeks for the total number of hours I’ve done.
