So I drive for a refuse company on EU rules. Each vehicle has two drivers, and always a digital tachograph.
Driver has card in slot 1, question concerns the second driver and card use. Refuse is like high speed multi-drop, collections are less than a minute, very few over two minutes.
Scenario 1
Driver 2 does no driving, he inserts card start of shift, records work and then is available until the first job, cannot change mode switch for every job. Does driver 2 leave on available and not record work(employers preference), OR eject card and reinsert to actively record break, adding the missing time as work, before ejecting again until the final job is done and reinsert, add work and then actively record available for the return to base (employee thinks this is keeping a proper record) Only WTD data recorded as no driving done, and WTD breaks taken.
Scenario 2
Driver 2 does drive for say, 4 hours, all breaks taken to be DH and WTD compliant, then Driver 1 takes over, how should Driver 2 manage his card, leave as available OR insert later and add work, while recording break and available with the card in?
For reference, employer keeps a WTD spreadsheet based on start and finish times less breaks, all declared on a worksheet, while managing WTD infringements on Tachomaster which acknowledges POA.
now i may be wrong here but ill try work out from the scenarios you have given.
Scenario 1,
even if driver 2 does no work his card should be put in as normal in slot 2 as it will record other work done but no driving, breakwise i dont know how this would work, because its technically not double manning as such so i think it may be the 6 hour wtd rule though im probably wrong. as for the mode switchs im sure you just leave it on other work if hes not driving.
Scenario 2
driver 2 should put his card in slot 2 as above if he is still in the vehicle, if he leaves the vehicle and goes home well he takes his card with him.
If the two drivers are together all day then it’s deffo double manning even if one of them never drives - the rules do not state that both must drive.
As it looks like the above might be the case then recording POA in the second driver slot would mean that the first 45 mins of that can be classed as break BUT those breaks must conform to the tacho regs if needed (45 or 15 + 30) and for the RT(WTD)R those breaks must be at least 15 mins to count
For WORK then as it seems there is the option of recording other work as well as POA so when not working set mode to POA and when working set mode to other work - that will save some of the work time for the RT(WTD)R
If stopping very often that that will be a lot of mode changes but what the heck - it’s only the case of pressing a button or two I assume (Me never used a digi)
I’m not an expert on this so please wait for a definitive from someone who is…
ROG:
I have never used a digi so excuse my ignorance…
Bill.O:
cannot change mode switch for every job
Why not ?
Because the stops to collect the refuse are so short the mode change would not have enough time to even register before the vehicle starts moving again.
ROG:
If stopping very often that that will be a lot of mode changes but what the heck - it’s only the case of pressing a button or two I assume.
Stopping that often and for that short a time will hardly be any mode changes, no matter how many times you push the button. Stop, change mode from POA to other work, move after a short time, less than a minute and the mode will go back to POA as the vehicle begins to move and the short period of other work probably won’t even register, it will likely just show POA straight through.
ROG:
Thanks coffee - I had no idea that it need one minute to record each difference in mode
Come off it ROG, there’s been many a post in here about the ‘rounding up’ of minutes of driving and drivers losing available driving time due to the way that digi-tachos work.
Surely, you can’t expect everybody to believe that you’ve missed the main point of so many posts that you’ve actually contributed comments to. But then again, there’s only one ROG so I guess anything is possible.
ROG:
Thanks coffee - I had no idea that it need one minute to record each difference in mode
■■■■■■■■. You knew that, you’ve posted on threads covering just that topic many times before.
In fact on previous occasions you have posted - “Thanks, I never knew that”, or words to that effect. As you have never used a digi, clearly have no idea how they work and don’t seem to read and remember anything that is posted about digital tachos would it not be a good idea to stop trying to answer questions on them, giving people misinformation in the process? Just a thought.
ROG:
Thanks coffee - I had no idea that it need one minute to record each difference in mode
■■■■■■■■. You knew that, you’ve posted on threads covering just that topic many times before.
In fact on previous occasions you have posted - “Thanks, I never knew that”, or words to that effect. As you have never used a digi, clearly have no idea how they work and don’t seem to read and remember anything that is posted about digital tachos would it not be a good idea to stop trying to answer questions on them, giving people misinformation in the process? Just a thought.
I was not sure exactly how a digi worked on timings -
If mode changed then did it take one full minute to record ant change
or
If mode changed then did it record that mode for one minute before it would go to the next mode change
From your answer I now know that a mode change will not register unless at least one full minute has been recorded
Why would two drivers in a vehicle definitely be ‘double manning?’
-In the legislation a driver is defined as somebody who drives a vehicle or somebody who is carried on a vehicle with a view to driving if required.
If the 2nd person is there solely to act as a loader, navigator or other role then they are not classed as a driver and would not need to put their digital card into the VU. They could then make a written record of their duty for the requirements of RT(WT)R, something along the lines of; started duty 06:00, availability 3:46, work 1:20, break 1:00. Ended duty 12:06. The record could then be entered onto a computerised RT(WT)R record by someone in the office, gives them something to do
Digital tachographs recording activity other than driving
-Assuming that there is no driving recorded because the vehicle doesn’t move (apparently there are devices available that can make a tacho ‘think’ the vehicle isn’t moving ). The activity is still recorded in whole minutes but the storage criteria for a minute where multiple activities occur (because somebody pressed the mode button) are;
the minute will be counted as the activity that occupied the greater part of the minute
if activities are the same duration then the ‘last’ activity selected will be the one that the minutes is assigned to
If you think about the co-driver slot on a digital tacho, it only records break, availability or work to the card inserted in it. When the vehicle is moving the record made will be ‘availability.’ When the vehicle stops moving, ‘availability’ will continue to be recorded until somebody uses the mode switch to change the activity recorded. In a hypothetical situation it would only require 20 seconds in a particular activity to have the minute assigned to that activity.
I’ve had enough of (EC)1360/2002 now, I’m off to enjoy a few beers in the sunshine
Ubiquitous:
Can’t you operate under GB Domestic Hours and use a log book?
Yes you can. However, some Operators like drivers to use Tachos on Domestic journeys. This is especially true when the drivers may be on ‘mixed’ EU and Domestic hours. A bin wagon doing household collections will run on Domestic Hours. If the same vehicle was used to collect from firms on an Industrial Estate then it would be under EU hours and a Tacho would have to be used.
). The activity is still recorded in whole minutes but the storage criteria for a minute where multiple activities occur (because somebody pressed the mode button) are;
