Hi
I have a few questions to those that know this subject very well.
Lets assume a driver has been working for a haulage company for the last few months.
He being paid a set weekly salary.
He started on the 10th of June this year.
The company has workplace agreement signed with its employees and the reference period is 26 weeks.
As we all know a driver (mobile worker) can not work more 48 hrs per week on average during this 26 weeks reference period.
questions:
if someone was employed lets say on the 10 th of June, then his 26 weeks reference period will always be ending on the last day of the 26th week?
How can you be sure, that your hours are being correctly averaged down and they are not greater than 48 hrs per week on average ( 48 hrs on average after deducting all POAs and breaks)?
Can you somehow check it towards the end of your 26 weeks reference period?
Can you request a printout showing it?
What if you ask your manager you want a print out of your hours, and he says, “don’t worry, I will monitor those hours for you”?
Who at the end is responsible for monitoring your hours, you the driver or your manager?
If after the end of your reference period VOSA somehow discovers you worked more that 48 hrs per week on average during your last 26 weeks reference period, and when VOSA starts questioning you why it happened, and you say “my manager had said he would monitor those hours for me”, would VOSA the penalise you or your manager?
How long after a given 26 weeks reference period ends, VOSA can still check whether you complied with the regulations and how can VOSA check it?
If you take unpaid day off, is this day being calculated as one of the days belonging to that 26 weeks reference period and how many hours should you count for this day?
I would appreciate if someone could answer these above questions one by one, so we could clearly see which replies answer which question.
When moving from one employee to another you should inform them of your working hours to date and any time off is counted as 8 hours per single day and 48 hours for 5 consecutive days
internetfan:
Hi
I have a few questions to those that know this subject very well.
Lets assume a driver has been working for a haulage company for the last few months.
He being paid a set weekly salary.
He started on the 10th of June this year.
The company has workplace agreement signed with its employees and the reference period is 26 weeks.
As we all know a driver (mobile worker) can not work more 48 hrs per week on average during this 26 weeks reference period.
questions:
if someone was employed lets say on the 10 th of June, then his 26 weeks reference period will always be ending on the last day of the 26th week?
The reference period will be the one that’s been agreed in the workforce agreement, if they have a rolling reference period so will you, if their reference period ends on that’s when your reference period will end.
How can you be sure, that your hours are being correctly averaged down and they are not greater than 48 hrs per week on average ( 48 hrs on average after deducting all POAs and breaks)?
Can you somehow check it towards the end of your 26 weeks reference period?
Keep track of them yourself or use an analysis company to do it for you, if you don’t trust the company to do it those are your only options as far as I can see.
Can you request a printout showing it?
See 3. below.
Who at the end is responsible for monitoring your hours, you the driver or your manager?
Depends who you ask, the company has a legal obligation to keep track of your working time and to provide you with it in writing, but I would say the driver also has an obligation to stick to the law (if you care about it that is )
If after the end of your reference period VOSA somehow discovers you worked more that 48 hrs per week on average during your last 26 weeks reference period, and when VOSA starts questioning you why it happened, and you say “my manager had said he would monitor those hours for me”, would VOSA the penalise you or your manager?
As far as I’m aware VOSA don’t give a [zb] about the working time rules and in any case would find it very hard to monitor the 48 hour week .
How long after a given 26 weeks reference period ends, VOSA can still check whether you complied with the regulations and how can VOSA check it?
See above, VOSA don’t care about the 48 hour week, how long after the 26 weeks VOSA could check I don’t know but as I said they dan’t care about it and at the moment are only likely to prosecute working time infringements if they wanted to use it to support a prosecution for serious drivers hours infringements .
If you take unpaid day off, is this day being calculated as one of the days belonging to that 26 weeks reference period and how many hours should you count for this day?
Only statutory holidays of 4 weeks and maternity/paternity leave and sick days have to be counted for the RT(WT)R.
Each individual day is counted as 8 hours, a complete weeks work (Monday to Sunday) is counted as 48 hours.
Days off other than those mentioned above don’t count for the RT(WT)R and can be used to reduce the average working week.
Where do you find a company that could independently provide you with a printout of your working hours?
I will have some more questions, but need to rush to work now.
Where do you find a company that could independently provide you with a printout of your working hours?
I will have some more questions, but need to rush to work now.
Thanks
You won’t find a company that will/can give you just a written statement of your hours, you would need to have your hours regularly analysed, I believe Tachomaster do it for £1 per week, they used to anyway.
You can buy analysis software yourself but it’s quite expensive so not really worthwhile just to track the 48 hour week.
If it’s just the average 48 hour week you’re concerned about it would pay you to find out about the reference period start/end date or if it’s a rolling reference period and keep your own records in a diary/notebook or spreadsheet.
I’ll post a couple of links to the posts that dozy has referred to above, as far as I can see the only information that’s really relevant to this thread is the fact that drivers are not solely responsible for complying with the RT(WT)R and employers are obliged to give a written record of the drivers hours if one is asked for, the employer has to ensure that drivers comply with the working time regulations, never the less it is coming from someone who is ex VOSA and knows what he’s talking about so worth reading.
Is the company you work for bothered about the RTD? - if not then why worry about it because the authorities have taken no interest in it since it started over 5 years ago …
“it would pay you to find out about the reference period start/end date or if it’s a rolling reference period and keep your own records in a diary/notebook or spreadsheet.”
What is that rolling reference period? Is there any other type of reference period and how are they different ?
I’ve been keeping my records for the last few months , but not all, that’s the problem.
Other questions:
What happens if reference period starts , lets say on the 3rd June and ends on the 1st December?
What happens to that one week between the start of the reference period (1st June) and the start of employment (10 the June)?
How that one week is being calculated?
2.What happens if you work for a company where reference period is 26 weeks and then lets say after 4 months of employment, (which were being used by employer to max your hours in order to average down to an average of 48 hrs, towards the end of the reference period) you decide to leave the company or are being sacked because the work dried out or for other reasons? What happens to that averaging down your hours business that was going to be done towards the end of your 26 weeks reference period?
what if at a given company 26 weeks reference period started on the 6th May, an employee was being employed on the 10th June, in this case the company can max his hours as much as they want for the remaining of the 26 weeks reference period which in this case is going to be almost 5 months, only because he came to be employed just over 1 month after the new reference period started, and he lost that one month of averaging down towards 48 hrs average week?
“it would pay you to find out about the reference period start/end date or if it’s a rolling reference period and keep your own records in a diary/notebook or spreadsheet.”
What is that rolling reference period? Is there any other type of reference period and how are they different ?
The regulations allow for a rolling reference period, lets say the reference period is 26 weeks, a fixed reference period would have a start and end date, a rolling reference period is any 26 consecutive weeks.
In the case of a rolling 26 week reference period you would legally be required to average no more than 48 hours working time per week over the current week and the previous 25 consecutive weeks.
Other questions:
What happens if reference period starts , lets say on the 3rd June and ends on the 1st December?
What happens to that one week between the start of the reference period (1st June) and the start of employment (10 the June)?
How that one week is being calculated?
Nothing happens to it, it’s your total working time that counts for the 48 hour week, it doesn’t matter what company you was working for as long as you was involved in road transport as a mobile worker.
I would say that when you join a new company they should calculate your working time up-to the date that you join them and any relevant working time counts towards their reference period.
2.What happens if you work for a company where reference period is 26 weeks and then lets say after 4 months of employment, (which were being used by employer to max your hours in order to average down to an average of 48 hrs, towards the end of the reference period) you decide to leave the company or are being sacked because the work dried out or for other reasons? What happens to that averaging down your hours business that was going to be done towards the end of your 26 weeks reference period?
Nothing happens to it, when you join a new company you agree to their reference period, and any work done as a mobile worker for any previous company counts towards the average 48 hour week in the new companies reference period.
what if at a given company 26 weeks reference period started on the 6th May, an employee was being employed on the 10th June, in this case the company can max his hours as much as they want for the remaining of the 26 weeks reference period which in this case is going to be almost 5 months, only because he came to be employed just over 1 month after the new reference period started, and he lost that one month of averaging down towards 48 hrs average week?
The work that the employee had done during the month before joining the company would be calculated as part of his working time if that time comes within the new companies reference period.
If the employee had the previous month off work for any reason that does not require the time to count towards the 48 hour average his working time could be maxed out for the next five months, but if he’s been working as a mobile worker that time counts towards the 48 hour average.
I think you’re seeing the average 48 hour week as something that’s only relevant to the company you’re working for at any given time, that’s not correct, it’s the workers total working time as a mobile worker that counts towards the 48 hour average regardless of how many different companies he works for.
When you join a new company you have a legal obligation (if asked) to inform the new company of your previous working time, this is so they can track your working time.
ROG:
Is the company you work for bothered about the RTD? - if not then why worry about it because the authorities have taken no interest in it since it started over 5 years ago …
Let’s hope your right rog,nobodies bothered ,we then won’t have to pay the up to 5,000 fine geebee 45 speaks of
ROG:
Is the company you work for bothered about the RTD? - if not then why worry about it because the authorities have taken no interest in it since it started over 5 years ago …
Let’s hope your right rog,nobodies bothered ,we then won’t have to pay the up to 5,000 fine geebee 45 speaks of
[/quote]
if you should be involved in a fatal RTC then I can assure you that everyone and their mother will take a interest in it
And if you are found to be in breach of the regulations you and the company may be facing manslaughter charges
ROG:
Is the company you work for bothered about the RTD? - if not then why worry about it because the authorities have taken no interest in it since it started over 5 years ago …
does this mean the authorities will never take interest in RTD?
reminds me of a small print underneath of any advert of an investment fund : " past performance is in not an indicator of future performance…“.
so, what would you do ROG if VOSA team walk one morning into your company’s transport department, they found out you’d been working over 48hrs on average per week, during your company’s agreed reference period ( be it 17 or 26 weeks) and when asked why hadn’t you followed the law of 48 hrs average week, what would you say?
maybe something along these lines: " common VOSA ,the authorities have taken no interest in it since it started over 5 years ago …”, why do you bother me now?"
VOSA guys would probably apologise and would leaive the company’s premises red faced.
Lets just say for arguments sake, my company’s reference period has 4 weeks to go till it ends, but I’ve runed out of my hours for this reference period, as we all know 26 weeks reference period allows us to do 1248 hrs ( 48 hrs average per week).
Now, I have an interview for a job that I applied for a few weeks ago, they’ve just called and are asking to come for an interview and a driving assessment.
I really want to get this job, but to be allowed for the driving assessment I need to have my digi card with me and use it for 1 hr or so.
Lets assume we want to follow the law and do things strictly by the book.
What are my options?
How do I take this test drive without violating my 48 hrs average ?
My new reference period starts on the 1st of Jan 2014
internetfan:
another questions for those in the know
Lets just say for arguments sake, my company’s reference period has 4 weeks to go till it ends, but I’ve runed out of my hours for this reference period, as we all know 26 weeks reference period allows us to do 1248 hrs ( 48 hrs average per week).
Now, I have an interview for a job that I applied for a few weeks ago, they’ve just called and are asking to come for an interview and a driving assessment.
I really want to get this job, but to be allowed for the driving assessment I need to have my digi card with me and use it for 1 hr or so.
Lets assume we want to follow the law and do things strictly by the book.
What are my options?
How do I take this test drive without violating my 48 hrs average ?
My new reference period starts on the 1st of Jan 2014
Thanks
Legally you should inform your main employer of this - that’s it
The assessment might mess up your rest period …
Many might mislay their digicard for a day and then find it again so a manual entry is done on assessment = very naughty
“Legally you should inform your main employer of this - that’s it”
My employer wouldn’t be very impressed about me looking for a new job, especially if I wasn’t successful, messed up the interview, the drive, or reversing and I had to go back to where I’ve been working.
“The assessment might mess up your rest period …”
Yes, it definitely would mess up my rest period, but what other options would I have?
“Many might mislay their digicard for a day and then find it again so a manual entry is done on assessment = very naughty”
It might be a valid solution.
So, you think if have found myself in an unfortunate situation of having my digi card mislayed on the day of my assessment drive it would be OK for me to turn up at the assessment and be accepted for a drive and reversing?
Thanks ROG for having aa go at trying to answer these questions.
Another question for those that know the subject very well:
Who is responsible for monitoring my hours making sure I do not go over 48 hrs per week on average during the reference period.?
Driver does not have access to the system, manager has.
