ive a couple of questions if any one can help? im an agency driver and ive realised i need to be keeping track of my average working week.48 hours.apparently this is useally over a 17 week period.do i need to log my working hours evrey day in a book,for vosa to see.ive also heard this needs to then be kept for 2 years?anyone help with this please?
ten4rubberduckie:
ive a couple of questions if any one can help? im an agency driver and ive realised i need to be keeping track of my average working week.48 hours.apparently this is useally over a 17 week period.do i need to log my working hours evrey day in a book,for vosa to see.ive also heard this needs to then be kept for 2 years?anyone help with this please?
Not your worry - the 48 average is for your employer or main agency to keep track of
nice one 
ill ask em about that.cheers!
Whilst the employer has a duty to keep track of an employees working time it has to be said that a mobile worker cannot legally negate his/her responsibility to comply with the regulations.
You should be keeping records of your working time over the reference period if you wish to comply with the regulations.
Article 7.3:
Mobile workers also have a responsibility for complying with the Regulations. If a mobile worker knowingly breaks the rules (e.g. neglects to inform his employer about other work, or knowingly makes a false record), then he/she may be liable for prosecution.
And before anyone says that no-one does roadside checks on the WTD and no-one gives a [zb] about it … I know 
tachograph:
Whilst the employer has a duty to keep track of an employees working time it has to be said that a mobile worker cannot legally negate his/her responsibility to comply with the regulations.
You should be keeping records of your working time over the reference period if you wish to comply with the regulations.
Article 7.3:
Mobile workers also have a responsibility for complying with the Regulations. If a mobile worker knowingly breaks the rules (e.g. neglects to inform his employer about other work, or knowingly makes a false record), then he/she may be liable for prosecution.And before anyone says that no-one does roadside checks on the WTD and no-one gives a [zb] about it … I know
Oh, you’ve spoilt it now, it was funnier watching ROG give out incorrect information. 
tachograph:
Article 7.3:
Mobile workers also have a responsibility for complying with the Regulations. If a mobile worker knowingly breaks the rules (e.g. neglects to inform his employer about other work, or knowingly makes a false record), then he/she may be liable for prosecution.
I agree that there is a responsibility for the driver to inform the company/agency of their hours on a regular basis but where does it state that it is the drivers responsibility to work out their 48 hours average over the 17 or 26 week reference period 
Could it be that it does not put that onus on the driver because that would expect drivers to be mathematicians
The driver would also need to work out exactly which 20 days of annual leave were to count for the RT(WD)R
The worker has a responsibility to comply with all the regulations.
Where does it say otherwise ?
tachograph:
The worker has a responsibility to comply with all the regulations.
Where does it say otherwise ?
So is a worker expected to be a mathematician ■■
ROG:
tachograph:
The worker has a responsibility to comply with all the regulations.
Where does it say otherwise ?So is a worker expected to be a mathematician ■■
No but it is reasonable to assume most jobs require the use of some basic arithmetic, which is a far cry from mathematics, even if it’s just to make sure your wages are correct. With this job you need basic arithmetic to use the tacho rules, driving totals, rest periods in 24 hours, weekly rest periods and so on so why would the WTD be different? Bit of addition and a bit of division doesn’t require mathematics and even the most basic of mobile phones have a calculator on them.
We are supposed to abide by these rules and if abiding by them requires the use of some simple sums then the answer to your question is; no, not a mathematician but having basic numeracy, or someone who can assist you with that, then the answer is yes.
I totally agree for relatively short term maths such as weekly rest or driving time over two weeks but for working out averages over say a 17 week period and then perhaps working out how best to utilise any annual leave time if necessary is a bit beyond ‘reasonable’
ROG:
I totally agree for relatively short term maths such as weekly rest or driving time over two weeks but for working out averages over say a 17 week period and then perhaps working out how best to utilise any annual leave time if necessary is a bit beyond ‘reasonable’
Rubbish. , that’s primary school level arithmetic at best. Add up hours worked and divide by number of weeks is not difficult and your bit about utilising annual leave is just smoke. It is far easier than working out how to get the best out of the tacho rules.
interesting.to be honest i wouldn’t leave something as important as my reference period in the hands of an agency or company.most of the time when ive asked agencies or companies for advise they have steered me wrong (to there advantage),so now i make sure i learn everything myself so i stay within the law.i never considered holiday time.that would obviousley cut your hours down.another thing,every agency ive signed up with asked me to sign a contract to work longer than a 48 hour week.but i have also heard there is no opt out of the 48 hour average week■■?
ten4rubberduckie:
interesting.to be honest i wouldn’t leave something as important as my reference period in the hands of an agency or company.most of the time when ive asked agencies or companies for advise they have steered me wrong (to there advantage),so now i make sure i learn everything myself so i stay within the law.i never considered holiday time.that would obviousley cut your hours down.
Not necessarily. Only holidays over and above your statutory holidays would reduce the average. Your statutory holidays are counted at 8 hours per day or 48 per week.
ten4rubberduckie:
another thing,every agency ive signed up with asked me to sign a contract to work longer than a 48 hour week.but i have also heard there is no opt out of the 48 hour average week■■?
There isn’t.
I agree completely with Coffeeholic, working out the average working time is basic arithmetic, I accept that some people especially the older drivers may be out of practice with this type of arithmetic and some may need reminding how to do it but I don’t believe most would have much difficulty after being shown.
Everyone has access to at least one calculator these days so I fail to see how totalling the working time and dividing the total by the number of weeks you want to calculate the average for can be beyond the capabilities of many drivers, and as said all jobs involve some basic arithmetic.
This really is not A Level mathematics
Anyway whether or not anyone thinks this is a job for a mathematician doesn’t change the fact that drivers can not simply pass the buck and refuse to acknowledge any responsibility for their own actions or their own decision whether or not to comply with the regulations.