I read in the press that Red Robbo, the man who did more than any other to ensure the demise of the British car industry, has gone to meet the Great Union Conviener in the Sky.
Can any of you boys remember one single thing that the Unions ever did, apart from giving us lots of uncomfortable nights sleeping in Day Cabs in the 70s, to help us drivers because Im double damned if I can.
David
It would have all been so much better if we’d have stayed with the Victorian management and work ethic with wages to match.
Also don’t remember Red Robbo having anything to do with Rover and Triumph being taken out by the decision to make fwd Jap crap.Or Austin Morris stopping making cars like the Cambridge and Westminster in favour of 1100 and Allegro.Or Ford and GM transferring production to Germany and being happy to pay German workers more than Brits,while calling lower paid Brits militants. 
I remember their constant harping on about supporting them in their " struggle " for better pay and conditions , but when the transport industry were proposing to strike for the same thing there was no support from them at all . Tossers the lot of them . Dave
On the other hand, i’ve been in TGWU, now Unite, for many years, most of my working life has been on car transporters and latterly tankers with various bits of general and some specialised before and the odd bit of agency thrown in when i packed the transporters in.
In every case the unionised jobs have, and still have, class leading terms and conditions, whilst the jobs with poor terms have usually (but not always) been non unionised.
The most important choice a union member can make is who to elect as shop steward for your dept or company, choose well and by decent negotiation all parties can come to agreement.
It doesn’t have to be loggerheads and strikes, if things have got that bad then both management and the union have failed in their purpose.
Good unions at places also act as a bit of unofficial discipline to keep the more stupid in line, ie its no good having full sick pay in the agreement if your less intelligent members take the ■■■■ out of it, similarly a days work for a fair days pay works well, the status quo won’t last indefinately if productivity isn’t reasonable, hence why the bloody box ticking logistics mobs have taken over.
Its not the unions that have closed so many of the old lucrative contracts, it was half wits who thought they lived in a money tree orchard lala land, where they were paid highly but couldn’t help themselves taking the ■■■■ via sickies and idleness…that’s why so many of the own account decent jobs have gone west, these half wits would have been half wits whatever industry they worked in, you cannot educate pork…this attitude still rife in the public sector.
I’m luckily in one of the last decent own account jobs out there, and yes i’m active in the union, and no we haven’t needed industrial action, we’ve had a pay rise every year through the down turn and a bloody good pay rise this year too.
Most of us appreciate what we have, the job is more customer service than purely transport, so most of us bend over backwards to service the customer, who after all pays all of our wages.
Long may this happy situation last, but getting difficult to find young home grown drivers with the nous aptitude and attitude to replace us old 'uns as we retire, the few east european lads we have can’t believe what a job they’ve landed, they work bloody hard and have the right ethos, no sickies no shirking, good luck to 'em too.
Our home grown youngsters had better buck their bloody ideas up, or union or not, they are going to be replaced by the east europeans in the surviving good jobs.
Juddian:
On the other hand, i’ve been in TGWU, now Unite, for many years, most of my working life has been on car transporters and latterly tankers with various bits of general and some specialised before and the odd bit of agency thrown in when i packed the transporters in.In every case the unionised jobs have, and still have, class leading terms and conditions, whilst the jobs with poor terms have usually (but not always) been non unionised.
The most important choice a union member can make is who to elect as shop steward for your dept or company, choose well and by decent negotiation all parties can come to agreement.
It doesn’t have to be loggerheads and strikes, if things have got that bad then both management and the union have failed in their purpose.Good unions at places also act as a bit of unofficial discipline to keep the more stupid in line, ie its no good having full sick pay in the agreement if your less intelligent members take the ■■■■ out of it, similarly a days work for a fair days pay works well, the status quo won’t last indefinately if productivity isn’t reasonable, hence why the bloody box ticking logistics mobs have taken over.
Its not the unions that have closed so many of the old lucrative contracts, it was half wits who thought they lived in a money tree orchard lala land, where they were paid highly but couldn’t help themselves taking the ■■■■ via sickies and idleness…that’s why so many of the own account decent jobs have gone west, these half wits would have been half wits whatever industry they worked in, you cannot educate pork…this attitude still rife in the public sector.
I’m luckily in one of the last decent own account jobs out there, and yes i’m active in the union, and no we haven’t needed industrial action, we’ve had a pay rise every year through the down turn and a bloody good pay rise this year too.
Most of us appreciate what we have, the job is more customer service than purely transport, so most of us bend over backwards to service the customer, who after all pays all of our wages.Long may this happy situation last, but getting difficult to find young home grown drivers with the nous aptitude and attitude to replace us old 'uns as we retire, the few east european lads we have can’t believe what a job they’ve landed, they work bloody hard and have the right ethos, no sickies no shirking, good luck to 'em too.
Our home grown youngsters had better buck their bloody ideas up, or union or not, they are going to be replaced by the east europeans in the surviving good jobs.
Totally agree also when I worked at Stirlands we had some of the best pay and terms and conditions in the East Midlands if not in the UK
There was a firm down the road from us RH Freight (non unionised)who were paid way below us and their conditions were poor but on the plus side [emoji15]they gave you a shiny globetrotter to drive
I went to work for the money not the lorry I drove
We were in a union at Ballidon quarry (GMB) and the companies drivers had a long standing grievance with management over something or other that wasn’t being sorted and went on strike. They picketed the weighbridge and all visiting drivers were sympathetic and didn’t cross the line. I was in the garage at that time and they weren’t happy that I had to take a truck for test at Derby but they did let me through, I discovered then how fellow workers you got along with fine could turn on you and cause bad feeling which thankfully didn’t last. Union rep arrives from Buxton and just tells them to get back to work, (they didn’t) then goes off to the Bentley Brook hotel for lunch with the management. Cant remember if it was ever resolved satisfactorily or not? I never bothered rejoining a union, they were largely ineffectual wherever I worked anyway. I do remember that we fitters wanted a pay increase in line with the trade but, because the garage was in the quarry boundary, we were classed as ‘quarry workers’ so couldn’t have one, however if the garage was based in the village it would allegedly have been different? 
Pete.
I remember what a bloody place that Austins at Longbridge was int late 60s.I only went twice,with bright bar from Hallamshire Steel Sheffield and was advised by another driver to get there at 0600 to tip because the “disputes and grievences” arose at 0800. I never had a problem as I preferred early starts anyway,but heard some tales about the place off other lads.I know that some Sheffield haulage gaffers told their drivers to bring the loads back rather than wait to tip,but whether they got back out of the gate I don’t know. 
David Miller:
I read in the press that Red Robbo, the man who did more than any other to ensure the demise of the British car industry, has gone to meet the Great Union Conviener in the Sky.Can any of you boys remember one single thing that the Unions ever did, apart from giving us lots of uncomfortable nights sleeping in Day Cabs in the 70s, to help us drivers because Im double damned if I can.
David
Looking at some of the posts here theres a world of difference between hauliers and own account transport , its all very well saying we want this we want that but where does the money come from , and by the way who can afford to work 40 hours a week I certainly cant .Ive worked for own account and hauliers and I remember a conversation with a shop steward one dinnertime in our canteen. He was in for a meeting with the top brass over pay and conditions a couple of weeks earlier and the main man in the meeting closed his note pad and said he`d heard enough , I asked what the problem was and the steward said with a smile on his face nothing really I just like to cause trouble , well that he did as the company upped sticks and moved out of town . It was the best job I ever had but everyone or most complained about anything and everything. Most had never worked in transport before and definitely not in haulage . Best put my hard hat on 
ramone:
Looking at some of the posts here theres a world of difference between hauliers and own account transport , its all very well saying we want this we want that but where does the money come from , and by the way who can afford to work 40 hours a week I certainly cant .Ive worked for own account and hauliers and I remember a conversation with a shop steward one dinnertime in our canteen. He was in for a meeting with the top brass over pay and conditions a couple of weeks earlier and the main man in the meeting closed his note pad and said he`d heard enough , I asked what the problem was and the steward said with a smile on his face nothing really I just like to cause trouble , well that he did as the company upped sticks and moved out of town . It was the best job I ever had but everyone or most complained about anything and everything. Most had never worked in transport before and definitely not in haulage . Best put my hard hat on
Well said “ramone” it is a great pity that common sense was in short supply all those years ago but unfortunately we appear to be returning to the same scenario as Corbyn’s supporters have had no experience of those days, but unfortunately the may soon get a dose if the ■■■■■■■ is voted in ( I hope not) and then they will soon realise they have dropped an almighty bollock ! Why wont they listen to those of us who were there and “got the “T” shirt” Cheers Dennis.
Let the strikers crack on Denzil ,whilst the owner operator sneaks in through the back door 
Punchy Dan:
Let the strikers crack on Denzil ,whilst the owner operator sneaks in through the back door
Words like “Scab” and “Black Leg” come to mind I believe 
Bewick:
Punchy Dan:
Let the strikers crack on Denzil ,whilst the owner operator sneaks in through the back doorWords like “Scab” and “Black Leg” come to mind I believe
Sayings like make money whilst the sun shines come to mind I belive ,dog eat dog and God help the under dog ,am ok Jack
ramone:
Looking at some of the posts here theres a world of difference between hauliers and own account transport , its all very well saying we want this we want that but where does the money come from , and by the way who can afford to work 40 hours a week I certainly can`t
The ‘money’ is supposed to ‘come from’ the higher consumer spending of the larger and more highly paid workforce,with more leisure time to spend it.As for not being able to earn enough for less hours.More pay,for the same or less hours,by employing more workers to share the workload,is supposed to be the goal of any union worth its dues.
As opposed to the Neo Con dream of less workers,working longer hours,for the same or less money in real terms,resulting in less consumer spending and what spending there is based on ‘quantative easing’,subsidised borrowing and in work benefits,with the economy as it stands being the result.Remind us what the economic growth figure and national debt stands at not to mention savers being ripped off to subsidise low wage levels.While Communist China gets stronger in the resulting race to the bottom.
Bewick:
Well said “ramone” it is a great pity that common sense was in short supply all those years ago but unfortunately we appear to be returning to the same scenario as Corbyn’s supporters have had no experience of those days, but unfortunately the may soon get a dose if the [zb] is voted in ( I hope not) and then they will soon realise they have dropped an almighty bollock ! Why wont they listen to those of us who were there and “got the “T” shirt” Cheers Dennis.
Ironically puppet Corbyn is predictably working for his Marxist Chinese masters not the Brit working class.You know the same lot who are waging economic warfare against the West by taking advantage of the race to the bottom economics of the global free market economy.
While it was so much better when the Cons finished what Callaghan started by selling the country out to the Chinese after selling it out to the Germans first.
Punchy Dan:
Bewick:
Punchy Dan:
Let the strikers crack on Denzil ,whilst the owner operator sneaks in through the back doorWords like “Scab” and “Black Leg” come to mind I believe
Sayings like make money whilst the sun shines come to mind I belive ,dog eat dog and God help the under dog ,am ok Jack
Aye and about as subtle as a poke in the eye with a sharp stick !
I agree with all that has been said because i was a good union minow, agree with the stewards and all is /was not, well juddian you write very well in most of your comments however it seems you have had the great privilege to drive /work in the two most income earning yes privilege because in the 1970/80 you only got a job with the car transports through the unions they decided who would have a job you had no chance unless you went to the union meetings and were a yes man [not saying you were ]however that was the system in Coventry,
As for tankers very few around the midlands back then ,they also ruled the roost when money was talked about how many tanker drivers ,car transporter drivers were involved in the 1979/80 strike for £5 a hour…" non" of the car factory car delivery transports [own account] supported the strike…so as far as i am concerned at 73 years old let the bosses run their firms and get rid of the unions, as for RED ROBO he caused more misery to haulage than soft nick … i could go on for days .the country needs more men like BEWICK,AND MR DAVIS BUZZER .DBP
As I hoped this has produced some very interesting and thoughtful reaction.
Although it might have been different for those who worked on the Dustcarts I personally never encounted any Victorian work practices or work ethic so I cant really comment on that. In my career as a Long Distance Driver I worked on some of the best paid jobs around and I always had the same deal with my employers. I gave them a complete and honest day’s work and they gave me the days money that we had agreed on. It worked really well. And I never felt the need for anybody else to negociate on my behalf - I knew the man I had to go and talk to.
It is true though that I never worked for any large or unionised companies and I completely accept Juddians view and comments. What always concerned me was exactly the example that Ramone raised of being ‘represented’ by someone who got their jollies from agravating perfectly good employers.
In my other career, the Merchant Navy, I did see the total damage that a politically motivated strike could do. I was not personally involved in the 1966 Seamans Strike being at the time sailing on Dutch Ships but we watched it unfold. The Union undoubtedly won and much delight there was. They really fixed the Owners, screwed them to the wall, keep the Red Flag flying etc etc. But what actually happened was that they signed the death warrent of the British Merchant Navy because the Owners, faced with completely unworkable labour conditions that would have meant them keeping two, exclusively British, crews on each ship simply to have ensured safe operation, simply moved their ships onto flags that gave them the choice of who they employed and how much they paid them. Another massive sucess for the Labour movement.
I suppose in the end drivers, at that time, were pretty independent blokes who did not appreciate being herded into groups. I am sure that a well run, fair union would be a good thing all round but the opportunities for trouble making are endless and damaging. Not for me, thanks.
David
I was lucky enough to have missed the Liverpool Docks in their hay day but what effect did the unions have there. I watched a documentary on tv not so long ago and such was the problem in Liverpool that Felixstowe Docks were created. Im told Hull was bad too ,I wont mention Scargill , the problem is and this is a 2 way street you`ve got to have compromise and common sense , gone are the days of no rights for workers but also being held to ransom should have disappeared too .Getting the even keel of a good fair relationship between employer and employee should be the aim.
