Continuing on from yesterdays breakdown where my truck’s recon compressor has failed after 10k 
It produces air but can’t keep up with the demand of both unit and trailer
To put a cost prospective on it Recon was £1600+vat MAN genuine one is £2500 
+vat
so factor in the 2x recvoery costs , work shop costs and my wages plus a lost back load , the MAN one seems not so pricey now
whats every ones thoughts ?
Personally, I’m a believer in doing a job right the first time.
I think a lot of economies are false economies, this reconditioned part problem your truck has had is a prime example of pinching pennies in the upfront cost of something only to pay dearly for it down the line. However, penny pinching on the upfront cost looks good in a PowerPoint presentation to your boss and the expensive problems down the line can get hidden.
Genuine parts stand the highest chance of being the best to use, however it’s not guaranteed. Experts, as in, the professionals who work on the trucks and know their job inside out - they will be able to make a sound judgement about what needs to be genuine and what can be pattern, but what are the chances of them being listened to!
slowlane:
Personally, I’m a believer in doing a job right the first time.I think a lot of economies are false economies, this reconditioned part problem your truck has had is a prime example of pinching pennies in the upfront cost of something only to pay dearly for it down the line. However, penny pinching on the upfront cost looks good in a PowerPoint presentation to your boss and the expensive problems down the line can get hidden.
Genuine parts stand the highest chance of being the best to use, however it’s not guaranteed. Experts, as in, the professionals who work on the trucks and know their job inside out - they will be able to make a sound judgement about what needs to be genuine and what can be pattern, but what are the chances of them being listened to!
Nail on the head there.
Buy cheap, pay twice.
slowlane:
Personally, I’m a believer in doing a job right the first time.I think a lot of economies are false economies, this reconditioned part problem your truck has had is a prime example of pinching pennies in the upfront cost of something only to pay dearly for it down the line. However, penny pinching on the upfront cost looks good in a PowerPoint presentation to your boss and the expensive problems down the line can get hidden.
Genuine parts stand the highest chance of being the best to use, however it’s not guaranteed. Experts, as in, the professionals who work on the trucks and know their job inside out - they will be able to make a sound judgement about what needs to be genuine and what can be pattern, but what are the chances of them being listened to!
you summed the thoughts of the workshop guys I talked to last night when I dropped the truck off they weren’t surprised it failed 
Just hope MAN at swindon has one in stock or it will have to come from germany and that wont happen for 2 weeks
The new one from M.A.N will also be a reconditioned unit …It depends on who reconditioned it and how far they go .The M.A.N unit will be fully stripped and all parts that need replacing replaced …M.A.N won’t recondition it as it will be the original manufacturer of the unit who will carry out the work …Others may just replace the gaskets and do the minimum possible and hope it lasts the warranty period
norb:
The new one from M.A.N will also be a reconditioned unit …It depends on who reconditioned it and how far they go .The M.A.N unit will be fully stripped and all parts that need replacing replaced …M.A.N won’t recondition it as it will be the original manufacturer of the unit who will carry out the work …Others may just replace the gaskets and do the minimum possible and hope it lasts the warranty period
I think the latter was fitted 
with the obvious results
Been in and out of the garage trade most of my life , I tend to alternate between driving and fixing .
When it comes to recon parts it ALL depends on who does the reconditioning.
Done properly a recon part will give years of service and if it’s been done by a proper specialist they are often uprated to eliminate the original weaknesses.
The problem is that there are many out there that think that a quick clean and paint is called reconditioning.
There is also the problem that lots of parts in the marketplace are very accurate cheap copies .
Sourcing parts from trusted and reputable suppliers has always been a challenge for repairers in any trade .
Unless I know or have had recommended recon suppliers I will go for new manufacturers parts , talking to an old school parts guy can often point you in the best direction .
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Back in my old yardman days, we used to maintain a large bunch of clapped out 53, 05 and 55-plate Scanias for a well-known German haulier (yellow livery with red letters) on a shoestring budget. When they broke down, one of my main jobs was to go on errands to collect second-hand and reconditioned parts (rather than the genuine Scania ones) from a scrappie at Toft Hill, near West Auckland. The most common parts that broke on them were the torsion bars at the front of the cab and diffs (one motor went through at least two)! The UJs on the PTOs and driveshafts also had to be changed, which meant me going on frequent jaunts in the van up to a specialist in Durham. The last 55-plate was kept on the road until it was finally sold early last year.
Still, they kept us on our toes!
Reconditioned OEM parts will always be better quality than pattern parts
TheUncaringCowboy:
Buy cheap, pay twice.
^ This.
Always go for genuine factory recon or at least main dealer supplied genuine parts.Or use directly supplied parts from the authorised dealers of OEM components like ZF,Timken,SKF etc etc having first checked with their respective customer services for an up to date listing of their authorised suppliers.
As for cheap the difference can mean a so called ‘reconditioned’ component that is cheaper than the cost of the genuine parts needed to properly rebuild it let alone + labour.IE cleaned repainted and a new set of gaskets and seals if its lucky.If not rebuilt using the cheapest possible pattern parts of unknown origin and quality.
While it doesn’t get much better than a factory remanufactured part with no need for an exchange.IE a new part in all but name in which remanufactured means what it says on the tin.
I think the way I have heard it described is that the better stuff is remanufactured, ie broken right down to every component, checked and all wear parts replaced. Re-conditioning, as I understand it, can be as low level as sorting through parts from scrap vehicles and repainting what appear to be good ones, although I am sure there are many people who do a lot more than that.
If you know that something is about to break you can often get good prices on genuine stuff elsewhere in europe, especially if you have something old or odd, that is until Brexit anyway…
What sort of warranty / guarantee period and t’s and c’s came with the part you fitted ?
Since it was over 20 years ago things have more than likely changed, however when I went on the MAN engine course at the time we were told that a factory exchange MAN D28** engine was actually brand new, with the old one going in the melting pot.
As far as recon parts goes as already said it depends on who is doing the recon, but it doesn’t have to come from the main dealer - although the volume the dealer network buys may affect the price- as long as it is OE standard. A genuine Fitchel and Sachs clutch or Bosch alternator to the correct part number, will be to the same item whether it is in a dealer box or the actual manufacturer’s box; in many cases it will actually be new.
Going back to the 1970/80s IIRC there were some poor quality recon units coming through the British Leyland exchange programme: Power something or other or some name like that. A few years later fuel injection equipment was another item to steer clear of the dealer network, with again poor quality units appearing.
Dav1d:
What sort of warranty / guarantee period and t’s and c’s came with the part you fitted ?
pass ? I just drive the thing
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as an example of genuine versus cheap alternative parts .
Our FH4’s (we have 5 now) started “eating” headlight bulbs - aftermarket specials at £3 a pop - and not lasting a couple of weeks .
One day I needed a bulb _ going out on the boat and not wanting to give Police Scotland the invitation to stop me I called at the local Volvo dealer to get a couple of bulbs .
Do you want genuine or other part bulbs ?
Whats the difference ?
Genuine £20 / bulb Other part bulbs £3
Give me 6 genuine bulbs please (I needed 2 , I wanted 2 spares and I was to get another driver 2 as well )
The bulbs were fitted and the trouble stopped same bulbs for over a year now and no more bother . the other lad fitted his two as well and has had no more trouble . I ended up giving my 2 spares to another driver and he has had no trouble either . Work it out £3 / bulb/ fortnight or £20 / bulb for a year + .
cav551:
Since it was over 20 years ago things have more than likely changed, however when I went on the MAN engine course at the time we were told that a factory exchange MAN D28** engine was actually brand new, with the old one going in the melting pot.As far as recon parts goes as already said it depends on who is doing the recon, but it doesn’t have to come from the main dealer - although the volume the dealer network buys may affect the price- as long as it is OE standard. A genuine Fitchel and Sachs clutch or Bosch alternator to the correct part number, will be to the same item whether it is in a dealer box or the actual manufacturer’s box; in many cases it will actually be new.
Going back to the 1970/80s IIRC there were some poor quality recon units coming through the British Leyland exchange programme: Power something or other or some name like that. A few years later fuel injection equipment was another item to steer clear of the dealer network, with again poor quality units appearing.
I was told the same thing at Swindon on a course in the early 90’s too. All ancillaries removed and the block melted down for new casting.
Things such as compressors are manufactured by companies such as Wabco and are available as spares from Commercial vehicle factors at a fraction of the manufacturers prices. When I last worked for an MAN dealer, we even obtained and fitted these parts for MAN warranty and claimed the price listed by MAN for warranty repair.
Occasionally strange things pop up at low prices.
Back in the 90s I had volvo estate that needed a replacement headlamp , none available from the scrappy , non listed by aftermarket suppliers so it had to be from the main dealer . £83 !!! . Then the yard manager said that they looked the same unit as a Volvo truck so he ordered one in that arrived to the yard an hour later , cost me £11 ! That was cheaper than the scrappy would have charged if they had one .
They do have you by the short and curlys if the parts are maker or model specific . It is getting rare for common parts to be used across multiple makes .
If you want to see eye watering prices go and look at aircraft spares !!
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I know Holset had a turbo remanufacturing facility 20+ years ago; at one time they offered generous part ex-prices to get hold of old turbos for two reasons, 1) to provide parts to re-man, 2) to stop cowboy operators getting hold of genuine parts to re-use and thus damage the brand name.
(Their process was a full strip, replace worn parts and rebuild to original specifications, with a guarantee)
beefy4605:
as an example of genuine versus cheap alternative parts .
Our FH4’s (we have 5 now) started “eating” headlight bulbs - aftermarket specials at £3 a pop - and not lasting a couple of weeks .
One day I needed a bulb _ going out on the boat and not wanting to give Police Scotland the invitation to stop me I called at the local Volvo dealer to get a couple of bulbs .
Do you want genuine or other part bulbs ?
Whats the difference ?
Genuine £20 / bulb Other part bulbs £3
Give me 6 genuine bulbs please (I needed 2 , I wanted 2 spares and I was to get another driver 2 as well )
Had a similar conversation with my local Ford dealership. Ultimately it turns out the only difference between the one in the Ford box that they sell for £20 and the one from Lucas they sell for £5 is the Lucas bulb in a Ford box you pay four times the money for.
poleman:
cav551:
Going back to the 1970/80s IIRC there were some poor quality recon units coming through the British Leyland exchange programme: Power something or other or some name like that. A few years later fuel injection equipment was another item to steer clear of the dealer network, with again poor quality units appearing.I was told the same thing at Swindon on a course in the early 90’s too. All ancillaries removed and the block melted down for new casting.
It’s probably the only way to sort out the old dodge of putting in a cooked engine for exchange.Having said that BMC Gold Seal engines had a name second to none in the trade as did Stanpart while Unipart which followed wasn’t bad.While the last engine I bought was a totally different larger capacity genuine replacement for a 1990’s XJRS which I put i n my mid 80’s series 3 XJ saloon.Which wouldn’t have been possible unless it was supplied on the no exchange unit required basis seeming to a confirm a new engine in all but name.