Recommended cpc trainers

Is it time to start a list of recommended cpc trainers? Going from another current thread, there’s a fair bit of poor training on offer (we always knew there would be) and it’s impossible for anyone to decide who’s good and who aint. So it’s bought on price and availability at the moment.

There are some LGV trainers who simply dont offer periodic cpc (and that’s how it should be if they’re not set up for it) and there are some colleges presenting excellent driver cpc who clearly wont appear on the current LGV trainer’s list.

It seems that with only a couple of years to go, we need to get this sorted.

All the best, Pete :laughing: :laughing:

In that case, I’ll recommend Novadata at Braintree, Essex. I’ve done all four of my days there so far, and will be back for the last one as well. Not too pricey, although not the cheapest, but in my limited knowledge, everything seems to be accurate.

So far I’ve done:

Drivers Hours & Tachographs
First Aid
Stop, Load & Go
Drive Safe, Stay Legal

They have a good balance of films, slides, discussion, & quizzes, and the day certainly seems to pass quickly, rather than sitting there bored!

Gary

I wonder just what proportion of drivers pay for their own CPC as opposed to it being paid for by their employer. I work for a company that will pay for my CPC but many drivers aren’t in that position.

If I was paying for my CPC, I would be looking for three main qualities: accuracy of information, relevance to my job and entertaining delivery (i.e. not boring). Price would be a secondary consideration to these factors. I guess not many employers would share my viewpoint and price would be their main consideration. Maybe this is what keeps the poor trainers in business.

There is nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and he who considers price only is that man’s lawful prey.” (John Ruskin)

I have even heard employers say, “You train people and then they leave”. Well, the worse alternative is; ‘you don’t train them and they stay’.

So I agree, a list of decent DCPC trainers on this forum is a good idea, particularly if the people who contribute to the list also say what made the training good.

Alan

(Ironic, isn’t it that DCPC trainers (whose purpose is to improve skills) must be approved, checked, and deliver an approved course whilst anyone who has held a licence for three years can be an LGV Driving Instructor without any approval or training skills? But I suppose that is a different story.)

OnlyAlan:
I wonder just what proportion of drivers pay for their own CPC as opposed to it being paid for by their employer. I work for a company that will pay for my CPC but many drivers aren’t in that position.

Well. I’ve paid for mine, basically because I don’t have an employer - or at least not one who is in any way remotely connected to the transport industry! I fully agree with what you’ve said in your post about relevance, delivery & price, which is why I’ll be sticking with the one I’ve been to, and will probably do my ADR & Operator CPC through them as well. I haven’t got any need for the latter 2, but I’m the sort of person who needs to know everything about an area when I start to get involved in it - have always loved the learning process! I’d be the sort of driver who wants to fix the truck at the side of the road, and views calling out recovery as a personal failure!!

Gary

scaniason:
In that case, I’ll recommend Novadata at Braintree, Essex. I’ve done all four of my days there so far, and will be back for the last one as well. Not too pricey, although not the cheapest, but in my limited knowledge, everything seems to be accurate.

So far I’ve done:

Drivers Hours & Tachographs
First Aid
Stop, Load & Go
Drive Safe, Stay Legal

They have a good balance of films, slides, discussion, & quizzes, and the day certainly seems to pass quickly, rather than sitting there bored!

Gary

Hi Gary,

That’ll be because Novadata are a well-respected training provider who have been around for many years before the DCPC came out.

If you had Bob as your instructor, you’ll have had a good course. :wink:

This is a good idea but where the course is purely DCPC and not something like ADR ec’t any recommendations should include the course subject and course price where the driver knows it.

This way it may be possible to get a list of the good and affordable courses.

I’ve done one day but couldn’t seriously recommend the course :frowning:

Surely if it’s all crap then it’s a tick box exercise, therefore cheapest book stamped wins. Nothing to do with good/bad. The best way to pay a tax is the lowest cost.

dieseldave:
Hi Gary,

That’ll be because Novadata are a well-respected training provider who have been around for many years before the DCPC came out.

If you had Bob as your instructor, you’ll have had a good course. :wink:

Don’t remember a Bob on any of them (just looked at his photo on their website, and definitely didn’t have him for any of them). From memory, it was Mark for Drivers Hours & Drive Safe, can’t remember the First Aid trainer’s name, and Paul for Stop, Load, Go. All of them were good - Paul especially so - didn’t think anybody could be quite so lively at 830 on a Saturday!

As for prices, as asked, £86.75 all in per day for most of them, and £96.75 all in for First Aid (includes the First Aid at Work qualification & card etc). I’ve found cheaper courses out there, but I’d struggle to fault Novadata on their quality, so don’t want to take a chance on somewhere else not being so good.

(If Novadata read this, do I get any commission? :smiley: (joke!!))

Gary

Redrorry:
Surely if it’s all crap then it’s a tick box exercise, therefore cheapest book stamped wins. Nothing to do with good/bad.

Depends on what you want out of it. I’m new at this game, and I want to learn things of use to me. At the start, this included drivers hours, safe loading, how the lorry operates etc. So I want to go on a course which meets the following criteria:

Not too expensive
Relevant syllabus
Good delivery
Interesting material
Ideally local to me

The one I went to met all of that criteria, so I’m happy. For people who already know everything, they just want to go to sleep in a corner, then yes, the cheapest would be the best option. But then how many really do know everything? From reading a lot of the questions and answers that get posted on this forum (and the others on the site), it seems not many. Yes, there are experts in some fields, but all fields?

Gary

scaniason:

Redrorry:
Surely if it’s all crap then it’s a tick box exercise, therefore cheapest book stamped wins. Nothing to do with good/bad.

Depends on what you want out of it. I’m new at this game, and I want to learn things of use to me. At the start, this included drivers hours, safe loading, how the lorry operates etc. So I want to go on a course which meets the following criteria:

Not too expensive
Relevant syllabus
Good delivery
Interesting material
Ideally local to me

The one I went to met all of that criteria, so I’m happy. For people who already know everything, they just want to go to sleep in a corner, then yes, the cheapest would be the best option. But then how many really do know everything? From reading a lot of the questions and answers that get posted on this forum (and the others on the site), it seems not many. Yes, there are experts in some fields, but all fields?

No amount of DCPC courses will make you an expert on every subject, in fact no 7 hour DCPC course on it’s own will make you an expert in any subject

You’ve mentioned certain criteria for courses that you want, (Not too expensive, Relevant syllabus, Good delivery, Interesting material, Ideally local to me).
All of that criteria can be fulfilled with a little time and an Internet connection, furthermore I would suggest that if you really want to learn virtually any transport related subject then it’s never in the history of mankind been easier or cheaper with just an Internet connection, so how is sitting in a classroom listening to someone who may or may-not know what he’s talking about going to change anything.

People who want to learn will and people who don’t want to learn or who think they already know it all won’t, DCPC courses in the current format will not make any difference to that.

Hmmm I’ve got full DCPC, cost £100 quid and had only drove a Vauxhall Corsa previous. There are drivers who have been in this “game” forever how does DCPC change anything except taxing their pocket. Why train in something you already do or have done it’s an oxymoron, surely training comes first. Did the Prime Minister take Prime Ministering training or was he just a product of Eton. Granny eggs and sucking exercise is what it smacks of.

tachograph:
No amount of DCPC courses will make you an expert on every subject, in fact no 7 hour DCPC course on it’s own will make you an expert in any subject

Agree totally with that. However, if you start off with no, or very little, info, and carry on by listening to other drivers passing on what they know, you can come very unstuck, very quickly. How often has the subject of split breaks come up across these fora, and how often has the 3 x 15 minute break option been passed on as acceptable. If you don’t already know these regs, you’ll just be helping to pay off the country’s national debt a bit quicker than you would otherwise do so.

tachograph:
You’ve mentioned certain criteria for courses that you want, (Not too expensive, Relevant syllabus, Good delivery, Interesting material, Ideally local to me).
All of that criteria can be fulfilled with a little time and an Internet connection, furthermore I would suggest that if you really want to learn virtually any transport related subject then it’s never in the history of mankind been easier or cheaper with just an Internet connection, so how is sitting in a classroom listening to someone who may or may-not know what he’s talking about going to change anything.

People who want to learn will and people who don’t want to learn or who think they already know it all won’t, DCPC courses in the current format will not make any difference to that.

I’m not saying that CPC in the current format is brilliant - I replied to a question some time ago saying that I thought it was good for us newbies, but not so good for time-hardened veterans. I stand by that. However, I don’t see how an internet delivered course would be any better, especially for me - firstly, how do you guarantee the accuracy etc of that course? I for one would be asleep if I had to sit in front of a computer screen for 7 hours at a stretch - I’d much rather be in a setting with other people, where you can learn a lot more from their experiences, the course can be more interactive and address individual queries etc.

As for learning from the net goes, I do use it for that, but it has to be driven by me, not someone else - For example, I decided recently to learn the technical ins and outs of air brakes (I know, I won’t deny that I’m a bit of a geek on technical stuff!). Doing this led me on to ABS systems, then onto forces under braking, which led onto loading & CG issues, and so on. I learned a lot more from that than I would if somebody had sat me down in front of a pre-scripted session, with no input from me.

I’m probably coming from a different viewpoint to a lot of people - by trade, I’m an electrician, and I have to re-qualify regularly. As a Qualified Supervisor (basically meaning that I need to ensure that everybody else is working to the regs), I have to attend training sessions whenever the regs change - which is too often. As such, I’m used to regular training & development, and tend to see it as a professional necessity. Maybe one thing which DCPC will help to achieve, if publicised correctly*, is to improve the public perception of drivers, even if only slightly.

Gary

  • This is probably one of major areas where the haulage industry as a whole lets itself down. There are 2 mainstream programmes on TV which cover the haulage industry, and one of them isn’t even set in Britain. EST&T may be (rightly at times) seen as a joke, but it’s the only insight 90% of the public get into how haulage works, and why it matters so much to their lives. Drivers in other countries are viewed with a lot more respect, it seems, than in this country. I’ll admit I don’t know how to get the message across, but sure as eggs is eggs, if the message doesn’t get over, lorry drivers are always going to be seen as something nasty on the bottom of the public’s shoes.

Tin hat on!

scaniason:

tachograph:
No amount of DCPC courses will make you an expert on every subject, in fact no 7 hour DCPC course on it’s own will make you an expert in any subject

Agree totally with that. However, if you start off with no, or very little, info, and carry on by listening to other drivers passing on what they know, you can come very unstuck, very quickly. How often has the subject of split breaks come up across these fora, and how often has the 3 x 15 minute break option been passed on as acceptable. If you don’t already know these regs, you’ll just be helping to pay off the country’s national debt a bit quicker than you would otherwise do so.

I agree that you shouldn’t take for granted information passed on by other drivers unless you have reason to believe they know what they’re talking about, but most of these things can be checked, for instance you mentioned drivers regulations well it’s all here to check that you’re getting correct information :wink:

scaniason:
I’m not saying that CPC in the current format is brilliant - I replied to a question some time ago saying that I thought it was good for us newbies, but not so good for time-hardened veterans. I stand by that. However, I don’t see how an internet delivered course would be any better, especially for me - firstly, how do you guarantee the accuracy etc of that course? I for one would be asleep if I had to sit in front of a computer screen for 7 hours at a stretch - I’d much rather be in a setting with other people, where you can learn a lot more from their experiences, the course can be more interactive and address individual queries etc.

Sorry I never explained what I meant very well, I’m not referring to Internet courses, I’m just saying that if someone wants to learn about anything road transport related the information is freely available on the Internet, and as you’ve already found this way will inevitably lead to better understanding than listening to someone talk for 7 hours.

The point is that generally you might as well go for the cheap courses because anything you can learn on a DCPC course you can learn for nothing with just a little research.

tachograph:

scaniason:

tachograph:
No amount of DCPC courses will make you an expert on every subject, in fact no 7 hour DCPC course on it’s own will make you an expert in any subject

Agree totally with that. However, if you start off with no, or very little, info, and carry on by listening to other drivers passing on what they know, you can come very unstuck, very quickly. How often has the subject of split breaks come up across these fora, and how often has the 3 x 15 minute break option been passed on as acceptable. If you don’t already know these regs, you’ll just be helping to pay off the country’s national debt a bit quicker than you would otherwise do so.

I agree that you shouldn’t take for granted information passed on by other drivers unless you have reason to believe they know what they’re talking about, but most of these things can be checked, for instance you mentioned drivers regulations well it’s all here to check that you’re getting correct information :wink:

Hope you don’t mind this - we could be here some time!

I agree that the truth is out there - but it sometimes needs a better setting to explain the implications and the traps inherent in some of that legislation. I’ve got that PDF printed off in a folder (one of the first things I did when I passed), but even then, there are a few stings in the tail. One which was quoted on my hours course, was the case of the driver who works his day like so:

Drives 2 hours
Sits in cafe for 1 hour chatting to mate
Drives for 2 hours
Has 30 minute break (as he took his first 15 in amongst the hour in the cafe)
Drives for 3 hours, then gets pulled by VOSA and nobbled for driving 5 hours without a 45

Easy when you understand how it’s happened, but also very easy to fall into if you’re just following the publication. It’s bits like this where I see the value in newbies like me sitting in a classroom.

tachograph:

scaniason:
I’m not saying that CPC in the current format is brilliant - I replied to a question some time ago saying that I thought it was good for us newbies, but not so good for time-hardened veterans. I stand by that. However, I don’t see how an internet delivered course would be any better, especially for me - firstly, how do you guarantee the accuracy etc of that course? I for one would be asleep if I had to sit in front of a computer screen for 7 hours at a stretch - I’d much rather be in a setting with other people, where you can learn a lot more from their experiences, the course can be more interactive and address individual queries etc.

Sorry I never explained what I meant very well, I’m not referring to Internet courses, I’m just saying that if someone wants to learn about anything road transport related the information is freely available on the Internet, and as you’ve already found this way will inevitably lead to better understanding than listening to someone talk for 7 hours.

The point is that generally you might as well go for the cheap courses because anything you can learn on a DCPC course you can learn for nothing with just a little research.

Agreed - again to a point! I can see the value in having a semi-formal introduction to a subject, and then somebody like me getting interested and going on a Google trek and learning a lot more. I can also see why they’ve gone for the DCPC formal approach to make sure that everybody develops their skills as well, as not everybody would bother if it was all self-managed. Where I think the DCPC goes wrong, is that there is too much in the way of noddy subjects being approved for the courses. I think drivers hours and First Aid should be essentials, and the remainder should be a bit more relevant. When I was looking around for courses to do, I found a lot of, for want of a better phrase, ‘social worker courses’ - for example, Conflict management, consensus thinking… Most drivers I’ve known in the past already have their own effective methods of conflict management, and I don’t think 7 hours, or even 70 hours, would change their way of thinking much!

One course which I would like to see, but I don’t think will happen, is a practical course on load security. As VOSA are having their purge on it, maybe they could set up some roadshows around the country - have a curtainsider with different types of load in it, and have practical demonstrations as to how they would secure it. Make it count for 7 hours of DCPC, and maybe it might serve to move towards a healthier relationship between VOSA & drivers / operators, and be more beneficial towards road safety. Certainly nobody apart from the Treasury benefit from the them & us attitude on both sides.

Have I bored you stupid yet? :smiley:

Gary

One course which I would like to see, but I don’t think will happen, is a practical course on load security.

Sorry, but you’re not looking very far then. There’s at least one reputable trainer on here who offers it.

All the best, Pete :laughing: :laughing:

We seem, not surprisingly, to have strayed from the question asked in the OP.

Maybe the Mods would like to assist in compiling a list of recommended trainers. And I totally agree that the content and cost should be quoted.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

Redrorry:
Hmmm I’ve got full DCPC, cost £100 quid and had only drove a Vauxhall Corsa previous. There are drivers who have been in this “game” forever how does DCPC change anything except taxing their pocket. Why train in something you already do or have done it’s an oxymoron, surely training comes first. Did the Prime Minister take Prime Ministering training or was he just a product of Eton. Granny eggs and sucking exercise is what it smacks of.

£100 for the FULL DCPC ?
Where was this mate ?
I would willingly give £100 to a CPC trainer for the privilege.
Any interested parties,PM me for details.

Peter Smythe:

One course which I would like to see, but I don’t think will happen, is a practical course on load security.

Sorry, but you’re not looking very far then. There’s at least one reputable trainer on here who offers it.

All the best, Pete :laughing: :laughing:

It was the bit following that quote that I was on about - VOSA running roadshows explaining how they see the world, and having that counting for DCPC. If you got stopped, you could then point to your course certificate, and say ‘well, that’s how you showed me to do it.’ At present, it seems (at least if you read a lot of what happens on here) that they’re too concerned with relying on not making things clear so they can always give themselves the benefit of the doubt.

As an aside, at a recent CPC course, one of the drivers there was talking about having to prove at a roadside stop that the 2 weeks missing form his tacho records was when he was on holiday, and having to get documentation faxed over from his office to back this up. Since I only drive occasionally, so only usually have 5-6 charts for the last 28 days, I emailed VOSA to ask what would be the best sort of records to keep in the event of a stop - I suggested that if I kept a diary filled in in advance of any stop, would that be of any use? The reply that I got back simply stated that they weren’t prepared to make any statement as to what would be acceptable, and it would be down to the individual officer on the day as to whether he would accept it. Considering I’m far from unique in this situation, wouldn’t it be of considerable value if they would state their view of the world, so that we all had at least a small chance of meeting it?

Sorry for hijacking your thread though - I fully agree with your original suggestion!

Thanks
Gary

James Bateman2:

Redrorry:
Hmmm I’ve got full DCPC, cost £100 quid and had only drove a Vauxhall Corsa previous. There are drivers who have been in this “game” forever how does DCPC change anything except taxing their pocket. Why train in something you already do or have done it’s an oxymoron, surely training comes first. Did the Prime Minister take Prime Ministering training or was he just a product of Eton. Granny eggs and sucking exercise is what it smacks of.

£100 for the FULL DCPC ?
Where was this mate ?
I would willingly give £100 to a CPC trainer for the privilege.
Any interested parties,PM me for details.

Upgrading Grandads C1 to C or C to C+E with an accredited trainer, the £100 is an “administration” fee. I did an extra days training on C+E in feb 2011 and got 35hrs of C+E as full DCPC. I actually had a full DCPC card valid to 2019 and had never drove any truck for a living. would like to have learned other stuff but for £100 quid who was I to argue.

Peter Smythe:
We seem, not surprisingly, to have strayed from the question asked in the OP.

Maybe the Mods would like to assist in compiling a list of recommended trainers. And I totally agree that the content and cost should be quoted.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

I was going to say that, we have got drift.

But Tachograph mentioned that the information is freely available either by the official documents or the threads on here, the best way to learn is to listen to the instructor and follow the course in the booklets or documents that are available.

Everyone learns at a different speed, or in a different way. I am quite fortunate in having a good memory in that I can recall where that information is, some can recall the document verbatim and others need to be jogged along.

But drifting again.

I am interested in a list of good providers with a list of the scores from customers. I can download a list from JAUPT, but all that tells me is if they have a good marketing man, not the quality of the training.

There is a provider quite close to me who charges 40 quid per module all in so for £200 I could have my very own DQC, when it gets to below half that price I may consider it.