A man with your skills and experience would have it down pat within a working week, Luke. It’s not difficult or particularly demanding.
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Have you ever tried reversing a trailer with all the axles at the back?I’m sure if I could reverse a short drawbar trailer with a single rear axle as far back as it gets with no overhang as such then I could manage an artic trailer US style.
I really don’t get the liking for a lot of tail sweep though.At least with a 6x2 lifting tag rigid you could see what it’s doing in the mirrors.But a 45ft tandem was a liability pulling off a dock between artics parked on each side.
I’d deffo walk away from one of the new extended overhang abortions.Bearing in mind that the rear steer is just there to take the weight of the overhang at the expense of the pin.While actually allowing ( helping ) it to hit things, from motorcyclists to street furniture, without the driver even knowing about it, possibly both at the same time, as if it wasn’t there.No one claimed you couldn’t, they’re just a ■■■■■ to reverse. And also a bit of a ■■■■■ for weight distribution, esp if running max weight in a 4 wheel unit.
Carryfast:
While actually allowing ( helping ) it to hit things, from motorcyclists to street furniture, without the driver even knowing about it, possibly both at the same time, as if it wasn’t there.I think that driver needs a new profession
You now sound like you don’t have a huge amount of artic experience, they really aren’t particularly difficult
Define experience.
If a driver approaches the job, on the basis that, unlike a rigid, tail sweep on an artic is a totally blind liability from the point when the unit starts to turn.If it then gets into a collision course with and/or it hits something the driver won’t know about it , surely that’s a good thing based on experience.
Let alone then warning any unwary drivers that a rear steer axle won’t change that fact because it’s only there to take weight.Not act as any form of brake on the tail sweep quite the opposite it’s there to follow it.
Star down under.:
A man with your skills and experience would have it down pat within a working week, Luke. It’s not difficult or particularly demanding.
Controlling the tail sweep of an artic is about as demanding as it gets because you can’t see it happening and anything on/through its course.The artic configuration basically isn’t designed to work with much if any tail sweep .
Especially in the case of any drivers who are confused about the role of a rear steer axle in that.
Punchy Dan:
0
I had a very nice one I gave £2500 for but the customers parent co shut them down so I never got to use it and a prospective buyer expressed interest but you had to be careful on reversing in places very easy to end up too close to walls ect
Star down under.:
Unlike our friend Carryfast, I won’t claim ultimate expert status, but I will speculate, based on Australian legislation. Overhang is dictated by the wheelbase, in our situation overhang cannot exceed 60% of the wheelbase. As your (U.K.) road system is generally narrower and more crowded than ours, you seem to have smaller wheelbases on similar length trailers to us. By allowing longer trailers whilst maintaining existing cut in dimensions, which are quite probably legislated, an extra axle will have to be added, to technically reduce the overhang. Trailers can be built with enough strength to support the extra length and any driver/loader with a modicum of intelligence, can load said trailer appropriately so as not to lift or impose rediculous weights on axles, as suggested by Carryfast. As the rearmost axle is only placed to comply with existing legislation, it has created its own wheelbase to the axle/s forward of its position. To eliminate excessive tyre and bearing wear the rearmost axle will need to comply with the sweep of the overhang, either by means of a simple castor steer or a more complex, heavier and maintenance intensive positive steer.
I finished my apprenticeship.
In UK, the maximum permitted overhang is also 60% of the wheelbase, on rigids at least, I’m not certain if trailers are the same.
When the maximum length of trailers in this country was permitted to be increased to 13.6 metres, the turning circle (wheelbase) was required to remain the same as the previously permitted 12.5 metre trailers, so trailers are now built with longer forward overhangs, (1.6 m ahead of the pin) and slightly longer rear overhangs also.
When permitted maximum weights (under C+U regs) were increased from 41 to 44 tons for six axle outfits, the extra weight was/is required to be borne by the tractor unit. No increase in trailer axle weights is permitted. (Currently 8 tons per axle)
Yes John, all these engineers who work this stuff out are in the same union, so singing from the same hymn sheet.
Are your mass limits enforced, per axle? Ours are calculated on the axle group, but each axle group is (allegedly) load sharing.
I’ve been weighed roadside, resulting in 9 tonne on one wheel and less than 7 tonne on another, in the same axle group. Providing the total mass of each wheel of the axle group, added together, does not exceed the maximum gross mass for scheme under which the vehicle is operating, no issue. Move the vehicle forward one metre, different weights per wheel will occur, whilst the total for the axle group will remain the same.
So much for air suspension being road friendly and load sharing.
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Have you ever tried reversing a trailer with all the axles at the back?I’m sure if I could reverse a short drawbar trailer with a single rear axle as far back as it gets with no overhang as such then I could manage an artic trailer US style.
I really don’t get the liking for a lot of tail sweep though.At least with a 6x2 lifting tag rigid you could see what it’s doing in the mirrors.But a 45ft tandem was a liability pulling off a dock between artics parked on each side.
I’d deffo walk away from one of the new extended overhang abortions.Bearing in mind that the rear steer is just there to take the weight of the overhang at the expense of the pin.While actually allowing ( helping ) it to hit things, from motorcyclists to street furniture, without the driver even knowing about it, possibly both at the same time, as if it wasn’t there.No one claimed you couldn’t, they’re just a ■■■■■ to reverse. And also a bit of a ■■■■■ for weight distribution, esp if running max weight in a 4 wheel unit.
Carryfast:
While actually allowing ( helping ) it to hit things, from motorcyclists to street furniture, without the driver even knowing about it, possibly both at the same time, as if it wasn’t there.I think that driver needs a new profession
Define experience.
If a driver approaches the job, on the basis that, unlike a rigid, tail sweep on an artic is a totally blind liability from the point when the unit starts to turn.If it then gets into a collision course with and/or it hits something the driver won’t know about it , surely that’s a good thing based on experience.
Let alone then warning any unwary drivers that a rear steer axle won’t change that fact because it’s only there to take weight.Not act as any form of brake on the tail sweep quite the opposite it’s there to follow it.
Experience: your lack of is blindingly obvious. Tens, if not hundreds of thousands of experienced and new drivers deal with it, uneventfully, all day, every day.
Star down under.:
Yes John, all these engineers who work this stuff out are in the same union, so singing from the same hymn sheet.
Are your mass limits enforced, per axle? Ours are calculated on the axle group, but each axle group is (allegedly) load sharing.
I’ve been weighed roadside, resulting in 9 tonne on one wheel and less than 7 tonne on another, in the same axle group. Providing the total mass of each wheel of the axle group, added together, does not exceed the maximum gross mass for scheme under which the vehicle is operating, no issue. Move the vehicle forward one metre, different weights per wheel will occur, whilst the total for the axle group will remain the same.
So much for air suspension being road friendly and load sharing.
Most three axle tractor units in UK have a design weight, and a permitted weight of around 26 tons. My current one has axle ratings of 7.5, 11.5, 7.5.
As long as you have the fifth wheel in the correct position on the chassis, and a reasonably well distributed(legal) load, its almost impossible to have overloaded axles on the tractor.
Most trailers have three axles with individual ratings of 8 tons, giving a 24 ton bogie(group). Theoretically, an individual axle can be overloaded, as long as it’s design weight is not exceeded, but as long as the combined weight of all the axles does not exceed 24t, then all should be fine.
In practice, that’s not the case, as most trailers here run on super single 385 tyres, which means that because of tyre capacity constraints, the design weight and the permitted weight are often the same, or very slightly different.
For myself, if in doubt, I load heavy to the front.
Thanks John.
Carryfast:
If a driver approaches the job, on the basis that, unlike a rigid, tail sweep on an artic is a totally blind liability from the point when the unit starts to turn.If it then gets into a collision course with and/or it hits something the driver won’t know about it , surely that’s a good thing based on experience.
Let alone then warning any unwary drivers that a rear steer axle won’t change that fact because it’s only there to take weight.Not act as any form of brake on the tail sweep quite the opposite it’s there to follow it.
I do love your ability to over complicate the simplest things. Learning how a lorry manoeuvres is the most basic of basic things drivers learn.
Star down under.:
A man with your skills and experience would have it down pat within a working week, Luke. It’s not difficult or particularly demanding.
I’ve driven a few on agency with axles set right at back, bloody things. Virginia had an ex Davie Malcolm fridge, all his trailers were specced with axles at back and they were a pain in the arse, in Rungis Market esp.
Old John:
Star down under.:
Unlike our friend Carryfast, I won’t claim ultimate expert status, but I will speculate, based on Australian legislation. Overhang is dictated by the wheelbase, in our situation overhang cannot exceed 60% of the wheelbase. As your (U.K.) road system is generally narrower and more crowded than ours, you seem to have smaller wheelbases on similar length trailers to us. By allowing longer trailers whilst maintaining existing cut in dimensions, which are quite probably legislated, an extra axle will have to be added, to technically reduce the overhang. Trailers can be built with enough strength to support the extra length and any driver/loader with a modicum of intelligence, can load said trailer appropriately so as not to lift or impose rediculous weights on axles, as suggested by Carryfast. As the rearmost axle is only placed to comply with existing legislation, it has created its own wheelbase to the axle/s forward of its position. To eliminate excessive tyre and bearing wear the rearmost axle will need to comply with the sweep of the overhang, either by means of a simple castor steer or a more complex, heavier and maintenance intensive positive steer.
I finished my apprenticeship.In UK, the maximum permitted overhang is also 60% of the wheelbase, on rigids at least, I’m not certain if trailers are the same.
When the maximum length of trailers in this country was permitted to be increased to 13.6 metres, the turning circle (wheelbase) was required to remain the same as the previously permitted 12.5 metre trailers, so trailers are now built with longer forward overhangs, (1.6 m ahead of the pin) and slightly longer rear overhangs also.
When permitted maximum weights (under C+U regs) were increased from 41 to 44 tons for six axle outfits, the extra weight was/is required to be borne by the tractor unit. No increase in trailer axle weights is permitted. (Currently 8 tons per axle)
Really interesting thanks
switchlogic:
Star down under.:
A man with your skills and experience would have it down pat within a working week, Luke. It’s not difficult or particularly demanding.I’ve driven a few on agency with axles set right at back, bloody things. Virginia had an ex Davie Malcolm fridge, all his trailers were specced with axles at back and they were a pain in the arse, in Rungis Market esp.
I was referring to a truck and dog combination, which Carryfast is misguided in his claim that it is the pinnacle of driving skills.