I’ve just been talking to Rikki, as it goes. All six of his current trailer axles are both positive and command steered.
I think the thing you also forget, and which you can’t get through technical knowledge, no matter where it came from, is that the official name and the vernacular are often quite different things. I know some of the things we talked about in Short Sea shipping confused me when I first moved onto it from Deep Sea, for example. The first time I was told go and load a Jumbo I was too embarrassed to admit I’d never heard of one, never mind the “Tinsley or Bell” I was being told to load it on…
But that’s the difference between book learning and hands on experience, a trap we as journalists have to beware falling into.
Carryfast, much like the other thread where I asked what real world experience you had of that particular subject you were trying to he authoritative on but got zero answer… I believe it was also about rear steer, maybe overhang with the van?
Anyway the question is still open and applies here also… how many of these vehicles have you pulled? It wasn’t “flaming” from me… I was just pointing out that I’ve driven them for years in many scenarios and experienced none of what you say so I was just seeing where your experience in the subject was gained bit got bo answer? Obviously now I know you read it also so it’s another chance to answer…
toonsy:
Carryfast, much like the other thread where I asked what real world experience you had of that particular subject you were trying to he authoritative on but got zero answer… I believe it was also about rear steer, maybe overhang with the van?
Anyway the question is still open and applies here also… how many of these vehicles have you pulled? It wasn’t “flaming” from me… I was just pointing out that I’ve driven them for years in many scenarios and experienced none of what you say so I was just seeing where your experience in the subject was gained bit got bo answer? Obviously now I know you read it also so it’s another chance to answer…
By definition if I didn’t understand the difference between everything behind a fixed axle or axles = overhang and as some call it ‘tail swing’ ( sweep ) around that resulting fulcrum point them I’d be a danger on the road pulling a 45 ft Tri axle.Let alone tandem axle without the relative brake on that swing/ sweep provided by the fixed rear axle of the Tri.
The type of ‘rear steer’ being described here just means an axle which supports and tracks that same overhang and resulting tail sweep around the fixed axles ahead of it.In the case of the daft extended trailer design that’s a dangerous amount of it.
That danger is magnified if we’ve got drivers who don’t understand that difference.
In them thinking that rear steer is all the same and means the same thing, as having an actually even longer trailer but with less or negligible overhang but all trailer axles counter steer to cancel out the resulting increased cut in.
A decent grounding in truck building combined with knowing that a 45ft tandem axle UK spec trailer has more than enough tail sweep to handle actually helps in that regard.
It’s unbelievable that I’m getting flak for trying to help drivers understand a critical safety issue.
Lucy:
I’ve just been talking to Rikki, as it goes. All six of his current trailer axles are both positive and command steered.
I think the thing you also forget, and which you can’t get through technical knowledge, no matter where it came from, is that the official name and the vernacular are often quite different things. I know some of the things we talked about in Short Sea shipping confused me when I first moved onto it from Deep Sea, for example. The first time I was told go and load a Jumbo I was too embarrassed to admit I’d never heard of one, never mind the “Tinsley or Bell” I was being told to load it on…
But that’s the difference between book learning and hands on experience, a trap we as journalists have to beware falling into.
To put it simply if drivers think that the type of ‘rear steer’ axle that just supports and tracks the overhang, created by the fixed axles ahead of it, is there to help them regarding reducing or cancelling the resulting tail sweep, as opposed to it might as well not even be there in that regard,
then we’ve got a big safety issue with the van crash topic being the alarm bell.
Lucy:
I’ve just been talking to Rikki, as it goes. All six of his current trailer axles are both positive and command steered.
I think the thing you also forget, and which you can’t get through technical knowledge, no matter where it came from, is that the official name and the vernacular are often quite different things. I know some of the things we talked about in Short Sea shipping confused me when I first moved onto it from Deep Sea, for example. The first time I was told go and load a Jumbo I was too embarrassed to admit I’d never heard of one, never mind the “Tinsley or Bell” I was being told to load it on…
But that’s the difference between book learning and hands on experience, a trap we as journalists have to beware falling into.
To put it simply if drivers think that the type of ‘rear steer’ axle that just supports and tracks the overhang, created by the fixed axles ahead of it, is there to help them regarding reducing or cancelling the resulting tail sweep, as opposed to it might as well not even be there in that regard,
then we’ve got a big safety issue with the van crash topic being the alarm bell.
Rear steers added to the Carryfast strong opinions on things he has no idea about list then
toonsy:
Carryfast, much like the other thread where I asked what real world experience you had of that particular subject you were trying to he authoritative on but got zero answer… I believe it was also about rear steer, maybe overhang with the van?
Anyway the question is still open and applies here also… how many of these vehicles have you pulled? It wasn’t “flaming” from me… I was just pointing out that I’ve driven them for years in many scenarios and experienced none of what you say so I was just seeing where your experience in the subject was gained bit got bo answer? Obviously now I know you read it also so it’s another chance to answer…
By definition if I didn’t understand the difference between everything behind a fixed axle or axles = overhang and as some call it ‘tail swing’ ( sweep ) around that resulting fulcrum point them I’d be a danger on the road pulling a 45 ft Tri axle.Let alone tandem axle without the relative brake on that swing/ sweep provided by the fixed rear axle of the Tri.
The type of ‘rear steer’ being described here just means an axle which supports and tracks that same overhang and resulting tail sweep around the fixed axles ahead of it.In the case of the daft extended trailer design that’s a dangerous amount of it.
That danger is magnified if we’ve got drivers who don’t understand that difference.
In them thinking that rear steer is all the same and means the same thing, as having an actually even longer trailer but with less or negligible overhang but all trailer axles counter steer to cancel out the resulting increased cut in. A decent grounding in truck building combined with knowing that a 45ft tandem axle UK spec trailer has more than enough tail sweep to handle actually helps in that regard.
It’s unbelievable that I’m getting flak for trying to help drivers understand a critical safety issue.
Politely described as a gross exaggeration. Only in your mind Carryfast, could a failed, incomplete apprenticeship be described as a “decent grounding”, in technology that didn’t exist at the time of that failure.
toonsy:
Carryfast, much like the other thread where I asked what real world experience you had of that particular subject you were trying to he authoritative on but got zero answer… I believe it was also about rear steer, maybe overhang with the van?
Anyway the question is still open and applies here also… how many of these vehicles have you pulled? It wasn’t “flaming” from me… I was just pointing out that I’ve driven them for years in many scenarios and experienced none of what you say so I was just seeing where your experience in the subject was gained bit got bo answer? Obviously now I know you read it also so it’s another chance to answer…
By definition if I didn’t understand the difference between everything behind a fixed axle or axles = overhang and as some call it ‘tail swing’ ( sweep ) around that resulting fulcrum point them I’d be a danger on the road pulling a 45 ft Tri axle.Let alone tandem axle without the relative brake on that swing/ sweep provided by the fixed rear axle of the Tri.
The type of ‘rear steer’ being described here just means an axle which supports and tracks that same overhang and resulting tail sweep around the fixed axles ahead of it.In the case of the daft extended trailer design that’s a dangerous amount of it.
That danger is magnified if we’ve got drivers who don’t understand that difference.
In them thinking that rear steer is all the same and means the same thing, as having an actually even longer trailer but with less or negligible overhang but all trailer axles counter steer to cancel out the resulting increased cut in. A decent grounding in truck building combined with knowing that a 45ft tandem axle UK spec trailer has more than enough tail sweep to handle actually helps in that regard.
It’s unbelievable that I’m getting flak for trying to help drivers understand a critical safety issue.
Politely described as a gross exaggeration. Only in your mind Carryfast, could a failed, incomplete apprenticeship be described as a “decent grounding”, in technology that didn’t exist at the time of that failure.
Enough of a grounding to know that a rear steer axle behind the fixed axles of an extended overhang trailer ain’t there to make the slightest/any difference to the resulting massive tail sweep/swing.
Gave up to take up the better offer of works test driver passed with credit up to that point isn’t a ‘failure’ in my book.
Lucy:
I’ve just been talking to Rikki, as it goes. All six of his current trailer axles are both positive and command steered.
I think the thing you also forget, and which you can’t get through technical knowledge, no matter where it came from, is that the official name and the vernacular are often quite different things. I know some of the things we talked about in Short Sea shipping confused me when I first moved onto it from Deep Sea, for example. The first time I was told go and load a Jumbo I was too embarrassed to admit I’d never heard of one, never mind the “Tinsley or Bell” I was being told to load it on…
But that’s the difference between book learning and hands on experience, a trap we as journalists have to beware falling into.
To put it simply if drivers think that the type of ‘rear steer’ axle that just supports and tracks the overhang, created by the fixed axles ahead of it, is there to help them regarding reducing or cancelling the resulting tail sweep, as opposed to it might as well not even be there in that regard,
then we’ve got a big safety issue with the van crash topic being the alarm bell.
Rear steers added to the Carryfast strong opinions on things he has no idea about list then
To be fair though, he’s spot on here.
That’s exactly what I say to people, pretend that the steering axle just isn’t there
Carryfast:
To put it simply if drivers think that the type of ‘rear steer’ axle that just supports and tracks the overhang, created by the fixed axles ahead of it, is there to help them regarding reducing or cancelling the resulting tail sweep, as opposed to it might as well not even be there in that regard,
then we’ve got a big safety issue with the van crash topic being the alarm bell.
Rear steers added to the Carryfast strong opinions on things he has no idea about list then
To be fair though, he’s spot on here.
That’s exactly what I say to people, pretend that the steering axle just isn’t there
^ Exactly.It’s not there to help or immunise the driver from tail sweep issues of which there are obviously a lot in the case of an extended overhang trailer and that’s exactly what they are no more no less.
Or in the case of those who prefer to ignore or argue with the fact, that it’s just there to support and track the over hang,
go for it.
As if by magic it will cancel out the tail swing/sweep which would otherwise be created by the over hang behind the fixed axle/s if it wasn’t there.
Carryfast:
To put it simply if drivers think that the type of ‘rear steer’ axle that just supports and tracks the overhang, created by the fixed axles ahead of it, is there to help them regarding reducing or cancelling the resulting tail sweep, as opposed to it might as well not even be there in that regard,
then we’ve got a big safety issue with the van crash topic being the alarm bell.
Rear steers added to the Carryfast strong opinions on things he has no idea about list then
Unlike you I I know that a rear steer axle would make absolutely no difference whatsoever to this issue nor is it designed to.
Carryfast:
To put it simply if drivers think that the type of ‘rear steer’ axle that just supports and tracks the overhang, created by the fixed axles ahead of it, is there to help them regarding reducing or cancelling the resulting tail sweep, as opposed to it might as well not even be there in that regard,
then we’ve got a big safety issue with the van crash topic being the alarm bell.
Rear steers added to the Carryfast strong opinions on things he has no idea about list then
Unlike you I I know that a rear steer axle would make absolutely no difference whatsoever to this issue nor is it designed to.
Putting all fixed axles further back reducing tail sweep at the expense of ( more observable and manageable ) cut in would.
And unlike you I’ve driven many different types. However can you please point out where I expressed an opinion on them as I seem to have forgotten. I was just taking the pee.
Have you ever tried reversing a trailer with all the axles at the back?
I had a very nice one I gave £2500 for but the customers parent co shut them down so I never got to use it and a prospective buyer expressed interest but you had to be careful on reversing in places very easy to end up too close to walls ect
Unlike our friend Carryfast, I won’t claim ultimate expert status, but I will speculate, based on Australian legislation. Overhang is dictated by the wheelbase, in our situation overhang cannot exceed 60% of the wheelbase. As your (U.K.) road system is generally narrower and more crowded than ours, you seem to have smaller wheelbases on similar length trailers to us. By allowing longer trailers whilst maintaining existing cut in dimensions, which are quite probably legislated, an extra axle will have to be added, to technically reduce the overhang. Trailers can be built with enough strength to support the extra length and any driver/loader with a modicum of intelligence, can load said trailer appropriately so as not to lift or impose rediculous weights on axles, as suggested by Carryfast. As the rearmost axle is only placed to comply with existing legislation, it has created its own wheelbase to the axle/s forward of its position. To eliminate excessive tyre and bearing wear the rearmost axle will need to comply with the sweep of the overhang, either by means of a simple castor steer or a more complex, heavier and maintenance intensive positive steer.
I finished my apprenticeship.
switchlogic:
Have you ever tried reversing a trailer with all the axles at the back?
I’m sure if I could reverse a short drawbar trailer with a single rear axle as far back as it gets with no overhang as such then I could manage an artic trailer US style.
I really don’t get the liking for a lot of tail sweep though.At least with a 6x2 lifting tag rigid you could see what it’s doing in the mirrors.But a 45ft tandem was a liability pulling off a dock between artics parked on each side.
I’d deffo walk away from one of the new extended overhang abortions.Bearing in mind that the rear steer is just there to take the weight of the overhang at the expense of the pin.While actually allowing ( helping ) it to hit things, from motorcyclists to street furniture, without the driver even knowing about it, possibly both at the same time, as if it wasn’t there.
switchlogic:
Have you ever tried reversing a trailer with all the axles at the back?
Since when did real life experience, or knowledge become a prerequisite for Carryfast claiming to be the forum authority, on all and any given subject?
switchlogic:
Have you ever tried reversing a trailer with all the axles at the back?
I’m sure if I could reverse a short drawbar trailer with a single rear axle as far back as it gets with no overhang as such then I could manage an artic trailer US style.
I really don’t get the liking for a lot of tail sweep though.At least with a 6x2 lifting tag rigid you could see what it’s doing in the mirrors.But a 45ft tandem was a liability pulling off a dock between artics parked on each side.
I’d deffo walk away from one of the new extended overhang abortions.Bearing in mind that the rear steer is just there to take the weight of the overhang at the expense of the pin.While actually allowing ( helping ) it to hit things, from motorcyclists to street furniture, without the driver even knowing about it, possibly both at the same time, as if it wasn’t there.
Why are you exaggerating the skill required for such a basic manoeuvre, was that the highlight of your short career ?
Punchy Dan:
0
I had a very nice one I gave £2500 for but the customers parent co shut them down so I never got to use it and a prospective buyer expressed interest but you had to be careful on reversing in places very easy to end up too close to walls ect
switchlogic:
Have you ever tried reversing a trailer with all the axles at the back?
I’m sure if I could reverse a short drawbar trailer with a single rear axle as far back as it gets with no overhang as such then I could manage an artic trailer US style.
I really don’t get the liking for a lot of tail sweep though.At least with a 6x2 lifting tag rigid you could see what it’s doing in the mirrors.But a 45ft tandem was a liability pulling off a dock between artics parked on each side.
I’d deffo walk away from one of the new extended overhang abortions.Bearing in mind that the rear steer is just there to take the weight of the overhang at the expense of the pin.While actually allowing ( helping ) it to hit things, from motorcyclists to street furniture, without the driver even knowing about it, possibly both at the same time, as if it wasn’t there.
Why are you exaggerating the skill required for such a basic manoeuvre, was that the highlight of your short career ?
If you think that reversing an artic trailer with set back axles takes more skill than putting that under a demount box that obviously says more about your experience.
At least in the case of one of these extended overhang heaps I’d know to walk away without even giving it the chance to get me the blame for it taking someone out driving forwards.With or without the so called ‘rear steer’.
switchlogic:
Have you ever tried reversing a trailer with all the axles at the back?
I’m sure if I could reverse a short drawbar trailer with a single rear axle as far back as it gets with no overhang as such then I could manage an artic trailer US style.
I really don’t get the liking for a lot of tail sweep though.At least with a 6x2 lifting tag rigid you could see what it’s doing in the mirrors.But a 45ft tandem was a liability pulling off a dock between artics parked on each side.
I’d deffo walk away from one of the new extended overhang abortions.Bearing in mind that the rear steer is just there to take the weight of the overhang at the expense of the pin.While actually allowing ( helping ) it to hit things, from motorcyclists to street furniture, without the driver even knowing about it, possibly both at the same time, as if it wasn’t there.
No one claimed you couldn’t, they’re just a ■■■■■ to reverse. And also a bit of a ■■■■■ for weight distribution, esp if running max weight in a 4 wheel unit.
Carryfast:
While actually allowing ( helping ) it to hit things, from motorcyclists to street furniture, without the driver even knowing about it, possibly both at the same time, as if it wasn’t there.
I think that driver needs a new profession You now sound like you don’t have a huge amount of artic experience, they really aren’t particularly difficult
