I reckon that the new to the industry drivers are probably safer than a lot of the ‘been a driver all my life’ gang, they will have respect for the vehicle and the road conditions, whereas the old school will be complacent 
People who come from different industries also tend to appreciate the good points of the job, rather than spend all day ■■■■■■■■ and moaning about the bad parts. They also know how to act around other people, having spent a lot of their life not in the solitary confinement of a lorry cab. I would rather sit talking to a driver who had some other experiences to share, rather than someone trying to start a ■■■■■■■ contest about speeding or waiting times at an RDC, or even worse their middle east or SAS experiences 
villa:
well its not just truck driving is it
look how the standars of car drivers has dropped
no one has patience nowadays
every car is in a rush and most have no idea about courtesy
some cant even spell it
as for tailgateing truckers
these are the ones yet to have an accident
so they take more risks and become over confident
but its only a matter of time
thier day will come
+1
Stay as far away from the accident as possible - it’s not rocket science is it…
I bet most of the drivers you see tail gating in bad conditions have cruise control on, stubbornly refusing to knock it off as you see everywhere.
A bit of me is half tempted to say that in the UK cruise control should be banned because the roads are too busy and drivers can’t be trusted, but then again why should the idiots ruin it for everybody else. As soon as the traffic on the motorway starts to become dense the first thing I do is turn off cruise control, it isn’t safe.
i always respect the road and conditions but most drivers these days are complete knob heads just read most of the comments on here only had my licence 14 years and cant wait to get out of it,every driver you speak to these days have always done more miles in reverse looking for a chippy than you have,was on that ferry that sunk,was in the channel tunnel fire,they all talk ■■■■■■■■ and puts the job in a bad light AT THE END OF THE DAY ALL TRUCK DRIVERS ARE ■■■■■■■
Carryfast:
Big Roy:
But this still makes no sense, I passed the same test as everyone else and have been driving for 7 accident free years, Phantom Mark is saying “the reason the standard has slipped so low” is due to re training, now surely every driver on the road has re trained to gain their licence, so because I have come into the game via a different route it makes me a “lower standard” unbelievable
As he said it was a stereotypical view,which won’t always be fair in all cases,but the fact is the issue needs to be viewed in that way.The job is being progressively undervalued and seen as an increasingly unskilled one when it should actually be viewed as one of the most skilled occupations out there certainly on the same level as train driving.You don’t see opportunities for ‘retraining etc’ at the job centre,which would put someone who’s spent 10-20 years working as a building labourer or in a factory or a warehose etc etc,behind the wheel of a Eurostar,let alone an aircraft,even though driving a loaded 44 tonne truck properly probably needs more judgement and human input.Dumbing the job down with synchro boxes,speed limiters,and automatic tailgating devices,to allow employers to put a trained gorilla behind the wheel of a 44 tonner,won’t make the slightest difference in stopping the idiot eventually finding a way of crashing the thing. 
Steady on old chap, you were doing well, but you’ve now overextended yourself 
I think landing a fully laden 747 on a rain and wind swept runway at night is a bit more skillful isn’t it??
Carryfast:
Big Roy:
But this still makes no sense, I passed the same test as everyone else and have been driving for 7 accident free years, Phantom Mark is saying “the reason the standard has slipped so low” is due to re training, now surely every driver on the road has re trained to gain their licence, so because I have come into the game via a different route it makes me a “lower standard” unbelievable
As he said it was a stereotypical view,which won’t always be fair in all cases,but the fact is the issue needs to be viewed in that way.The job is being progressively undervalued and seen as an increasingly unskilled one when it should actually be viewed as one of the most skilled occupations out there certainly on the same level as train driving.You don’t see opportunities for ‘retraining etc’ at the job centre,which would put someone who’s spent 10-20 years working as a building labourer or in a factory or a warehose etc etc,behind the wheel of a Eurostar,let alone an aircraft,even though driving a loaded 44 tonne truck properly probably needs more judgement and human input.Dumbing the job down with synchro boxes,speed limiters,and automatic tailgating devices,to allow employers to put a trained gorilla behind the wheel of a 44 tonner,won’t make the slightest difference in stopping the idiot eventually finding a way of crashing the thing.
What you keep quoting as ‘dumbing the job down’ I see as allowing me to concentrate more on the vastly increased amount of vehicles on the road, signals, signs, drunks etc…
For every second you’re changing gear in a ‘crash box’ for example, is 1 second that you’re not 100% concentrating on what’s going on around you.
My 1 argument for all this is, with the increase in trackers and other monitoring devices, why do companies feel it’s ok to phone you whilst you’re driving?? Even hands-free, when a phone rings, you automatically look at it - even the iso-track system causes you to glance at it when it rings and even can sometimes make you jump - you know, towards end of shift, raining, dark, reversing into bay and you get an unexpected noise.
But for the most part, I think the improvements are making our job safer, not dumbing it down.
Big Roy:
But this still makes no sense, I passed the same test as everyone else and have been driving for 7 accident free years, Phantom Mark is saying “the reason the standard has slipped so low” is due to re training, now surely every driver on the road has re trained to gain their licence, so because I have come into the game via a different route it makes me a “lower standard” unbelievable
Wrong…Phantom Mark is NOT saying that, read my post again.
PART of the problem is people who hold licences now are doing the job because it’s a job rather than a genuine passion or interest, people who do the job because they are genuinely into it GENERALLY put more pride and effort into it, take a ride around any RDC these days and see how many crooked trucks you see half parked on a bay, the people who give a £$%^&* about the job will be the guys parked neat and tidy, because it’s personal pride, the cash earners will be on a bay and that’s all that matters, and it’s the same on the open road, I curse myself if I mis-judge a pass on another truck and up coming back in too close to a junction I am planning on leaving at, “Johhny don’t give a FFF” won’t give it a second thought, cut you up and think no more of it, he doesn’t care, he is just earning money.
I don’t live the trucker life (as an old boss said to me once), but I do take great pride on how I drive, and how people see me driving.
And FYI, I was made redundant from another industry, Simulation Software…and came back to Professional Driving after a break from from driving for a living for a few years.
waynedl:
Carryfast:
Big Roy:
But this still makes no sense, I passed the same test as everyone else and have been driving for 7 accident free years, Phantom Mark is saying “the reason the standard has slipped so low” is due to re training, now surely every driver on the road has re trained to gain their licence, so because I have come into the game via a different route it makes me a “lower standard” unbelievable
As he said it was a stereotypical view,which won’t always be fair in all cases,but the fact is the issue needs to be viewed in that way.The job is being progressively undervalued and seen as an increasingly unskilled one when it should actually be viewed as one of the most skilled occupations out there certainly on the same level as train driving.You don’t see opportunities for ‘retraining etc’ at the job centre,which would put someone who’s spent 10-20 years working as a building labourer or in a factory or a warehose etc etc,behind the wheel of a Eurostar,let alone an aircraft,even though driving a loaded 44 tonne truck properly probably needs more judgement and human input.Dumbing the job down with synchro boxes,speed limiters,and automatic tailgating devices,to allow employers to put a trained gorilla behind the wheel of a 44 tonner,won’t make the slightest difference in stopping the idiot eventually finding a way of crashing the thing.
What you keep quoting as ‘dumbing the job down’ I see as allowing me to concentrate more on the vastly increased amount of vehicles on the road, signals, signs, drunks etc…
For every second you’re changing gear in a ‘crash box’ for example, is 1 second that you’re not 100% concentrating on what’s going on around you.
How does the correct timing of a shift and hand and feet co ordination required for it make the slightest difference to the concentration which you’re applying to what’s going on around you which is all visual 
. 
As has been discussed on the rollover topic it’s more likely that modern driving ideas cause more problems than they solve.The old constant mesh boxes like to be driven by bringing a wagon down to a standstill,or almost,at a roundabout for example,using braking and sequential downshifting and then pulling away again in the right gear which has been selected before the point of actually driving through the hazard,so it’s pulling the load through not being pushed through by it,just for one example.In which case,contrary to your idea,they actually help to make sure that a truck is driven properly on the approach and through hazards.
The fact is the boat anchor torque converter type auto boxes,fitted in fire trucks for example,aren’t there to help with the drivers’ ‘concentration’ on the road ahead.They are just used in them because the designers know that there is,or should be,a big difference between a fire fighter with an LGV licence compared to a career truck driver.
While if a driver isn’t capable of maintaining correct seperation distances regardless of traffic conditions then all the artificial devices in the world won’t stop the idiot eventually running into something.
Phantom Mark:
PART of the problem is people who hold licences now are doing the job because it’s a job rather than a genuine passion or interest, people who do the job because they are genuinely into it GENERALLY put more pride and effort into it, take a ride around any RDC these days and see how many crooked trucks you see half parked on a bay, the people who give a £$%^&* about the job will be the guys parked neat and tidy, because it’s personal pride, the cash earners will be on a bay and that’s all that matters, and it’s the same on the open road, I curse myself if I mis-judge a pass on another truck and up coming back in too close to a junction I am planning on leaving at, “Johhny don’t give a FFF” won’t give it a second thought, cut you up and think no more of it, he doesn’t care, he is just earning money.
I don’t live the trucker life (as an old boss said to me once), but I do take great pride on how I drive, and how people see me driving.
In this case though it’s not even an issue of putting a trailer on the dock a bit zb’d it seems to be a case of driving on a motorway with a 6 foot seperation distance behind the wagon in front.
schrodingers cat:
Truth is, driving lorries is a pretty easy, reasonably well paid job. Too many people on here get on their high horse about other drivers whether that be car lorry or bus (sorry coach ).
For F sake just get on with it and stop whingeing, we all make mistakes (although theres a few on here would never admit to it). “Theres no REAL drivers any more when I was a lad we had to climb underneath the lorry to change gear with a spanner” etc.
Yes the job has changed and the working conditions are probably better these days and thats reflected in the pay so just get on with it.
very well said that man!!"
Phantom Mark:
Quite frankly mate the reason the standard has slipped so low is because every man and his dog has a HGV licence now, where before it was blokes/ladies that had a passion for the job, and that brought pride and professionalism with it, ie dole’ies with free licences given to them, a mass of people from other parts of the work force retrained when they got made redundant, foreign nationals, and general slipping of driving standards over the years has all brought the job into disrepute, my comment is a very broad generalisation of course but some valid reasons mentioned.
I find myself cursing just as many HGV drivers these days as cars to be honest, just ignore the knobs and stay clear of them and crack on with it mate 
No one pays 2k for a licence, all the hassle, zero social life, lack of family life, abuse, crap pay, long hours disgust and filth just because its a JOB. No chance.
IMO it comes down to pressure more than anything.
marsden:
Just a thought but truck drivers are supposed to be the elite of our roads,yes or no?, I have been driving trucks for 17 years so why was it then that when I was on the M62 westbound on Friday in very bad conditions that trucks were tailgating each other. Kenyon driver, unbelievable you should be sacked and your license revoked, you are dangerous, litteraly 6` from the rear of another artic in flooded conditions, you should be ashamed or are you just that thick? I have never seen driving so bad or the M62 so bad, it was like rivers flowing across the lanes, if a vehicle had aquaplaned and came to grief god knows what would have happened, never mind the “well I weigh more than him so I wont aquaplane crap” we are supposed to be professional drivers. The standard of HGV drivers now is shameful, to the point that some of you are on a par with the very people you slag off, car drivers, wake up boys and drive professionally. Rant over and no doubt open to all sorts of crap off others. 
When you get a job where being late is simply not a ■■■■■■■ option you may understand.
Saaamon:
marsden:
Just a thought but truck drivers are supposed to be the elite of our roads,yes or no?, I have been driving trucks for 17 years so why was it then that when I was on the M62 westbound on Friday in very bad conditions that trucks were tailgating each other. Kenyon driver, unbelievable you should be sacked and your license revoked, you are dangerous, litteraly 6` from the rear of another artic in flooded conditions, you should be ashamed or are you just that thick? I have never seen driving so bad or the M62 so bad, it was like rivers flowing across the lanes, if a vehicle had aquaplaned and came to grief god knows what would have happened, never mind the “well I weigh more than him so I wont aquaplane crap” we are supposed to be professional drivers. The standard of HGV drivers now is shameful, to the point that some of you are on a par with the very people you slag off, car drivers, wake up boys and drive professionally. Rant over and no doubt open to all sorts of crap off others.
When you get a job where being late is simply not a [zb] option you may understand.
I would rather be a couple mins late then drive like an arse and if you got a half decent TM he should give you some lee way in time to get there anyway. I had the same last night going up the M5 he was so close to rear of my trailer if had to slow down for anything he wouldve been sat in the cab with me there is no excuse for it… Yes I have done my fair share of time sensitive loads and yes also been paid by the shift so wuicker its done better for me before you ask
Saaamon:
marsden:
Just a thought but truck drivers are supposed to be the elite of our roads,yes or no?, I have been driving trucks for 17 years so why was it then that when I was on the M62 westbound on Friday in very bad conditions that trucks were tailgating each other. Kenyon driver, unbelievable you should be sacked and your license revoked, you are dangerous, litteraly 6` from the rear of another artic in flooded conditions, you should be ashamed or are you just that thick? I have never seen driving so bad or the M62 so bad, it was like rivers flowing across the lanes, if a vehicle had aquaplaned and came to grief god knows what would have happened, never mind the “well I weigh more than him so I wont aquaplane crap” we are supposed to be professional drivers. The standard of HGV drivers now is shameful, to the point that some of you are on a par with the very people you slag off, car drivers, wake up boys and drive professionally. Rant over and no doubt open to all sorts of crap off others.
When you get a job where being late is simply not a [zb] option you may understand.
I just read this out loud to my dog, she thinks you’re a [zb]ing idiot and I agree with her
There is not a job anywhere that requires you to risk your life (and other road user’s) There may be jobs that run on a tight schedule, but ■■■■ happens and you get more than the fair share of ■■■■ when you’re out on the roads
So here’s a scenario, you (Saaamon) are on one of your can’t be late at any cost deliveries, the Kenyon driver (who obviously has a similar load) smashes into the lorry in front because traffic suddenly stopped after a car aquaplaned into the barrier, now the whole motorway is shut down for hours while the Air Ambulance amputate the driver’s legs so they can extract him from the lump of mangled metal he is trapped in. Now there are two loads that cannot possibly be late, they’re both stuck, your’s may get there at some point, Kenyon’s load is spread all over the inside two lanes of the motorway and will never make it.
What happens
Does the factory have to shut down, putting hundreds of people out of work
Do babies and small furry animals start dropping dead
Does the sky fall in and the world come to an end
NO 
So is there any need to put your life and those around you in danger to save a few seconds
NO
Do you talk a complete load of ■■■■■■■■
YES
newmercman:
Saaamon:
marsden:
Just a thought but truck drivers are supposed to be the elite of our roads,yes or no?, I have been driving trucks for 17 years so why was it then that when I was on the M62 westbound on Friday in very bad conditions that trucks were tailgating each other. Kenyon driver, unbelievable you should be sacked and your license revoked, you are dangerous, litteraly 6` from the rear of another artic in flooded conditions, you should be ashamed or are you just that thick? I have never seen driving so bad or the M62 so bad, it was like rivers flowing across the lanes, if a vehicle had aquaplaned and came to grief god knows what would have happened, never mind the “well I weigh more than him so I wont aquaplane crap” we are supposed to be professional drivers. The standard of HGV drivers now is shameful, to the point that some of you are on a par with the very people you slag off, car drivers, wake up boys and drive professionally. Rant over and no doubt open to all sorts of crap off others.
When you get a job where being late is simply not a [zb] option you may understand.
I just read this out loud to my dog, she thinks you’re a [zb]ing idiot and I agree with her
There is not a job anywhere that requires you to risk your life (and other road user’s) There may be jobs that run on a tight schedule, but [zb] happens and you get more than the fair share of [zb] when you’re out on the roads
So here’s a scenario, you (Saaamon) are on one of your can’t be late at any cost deliveries, the Kenyon driver (who obviously has a similar load) smashes into the lorry in front because traffic suddenly stopped after a car aquaplaned into the barrier, now the whole motorway is shut down for hours while the Air Ambulance amputate the driver’s legs so they can extract him from the lump of mangled metal he is trapped in. Now there are two loads that cannot possibly be late, they’re both stuck, your’s may get there at some point, Kenyon’s load is spread all over the inside two lanes of the motorway and will never make it.
What happens
Does the factory have to shut down, putting hundreds of people out of work
Do babies and small furry animals start dropping dead
Does the sky fall in and the world come to an end
NO
So is there any need to put your life and those around you in danger to save a few seconds
NO
Do you talk a complete load of ■■■■■■■■
YES
Tell it how it is but why o why did you hold back lol
Saaamon:
marsden:
Just a thought but truck drivers are supposed to be the elite of our roads,yes or no?, I have been driving trucks for 17 years so why was it then that when I was on the M62 westbound on Friday in very bad conditions that trucks were tailgating each other. Kenyon driver, unbelievable you should be sacked and your license revoked, you are dangerous, litteraly 6` from the rear of another artic in flooded conditions, you should be ashamed or are you just that thick? I have never seen driving so bad or the M62 so bad, it was like rivers flowing across the lanes, if a vehicle had aquaplaned and came to grief god knows what would have happened, never mind the “well I weigh more than him so I wont aquaplane crap” we are supposed to be professional drivers. The standard of HGV drivers now is shameful, to the point that some of you are on a par with the very people you slag off, car drivers, wake up boys and drive professionally. Rant over and no doubt open to all sorts of crap off others.
When you get a job where being late is simply not a [zb] option you may understand.
You can control what time you get to your first drop/pick up - set off early enough. Beyond that, its out of your hands. It’s up to your employer to set you a realistic schedule.
It irritates the hell out of me that the dangerous idiots that race around and/or work through tacho breaks (goes on all the time in job & knock multi drop work) are the ones that set the benchmark for how long a job takes. Those of us that are sensible and take our time (not dragging the job out) are the ones that get stick for not getting stuff done fast enough and are essentially punished for keeping safe. Really grinds my gears.
newmercman:
Saaamon:
marsden:
Just a thought but truck drivers are supposed to be the elite of our roads,yes or no?, I have been driving trucks for 17 years so why was it then that when I was on the M62 westbound on Friday in very bad conditions that trucks were tailgating each other. Kenyon driver, unbelievable you should be sacked and your license revoked, you are dangerous, litteraly 6` from the rear of another artic in flooded conditions, you should be ashamed or are you just that thick? I have never seen driving so bad or the M62 so bad, it was like rivers flowing across the lanes, if a vehicle had aquaplaned and came to grief god knows what would have happened, never mind the “well I weigh more than him so I wont aquaplane crap” we are supposed to be professional drivers. The standard of HGV drivers now is shameful, to the point that some of you are on a par with the very people you slag off, car drivers, wake up boys and drive professionally. Rant over and no doubt open to all sorts of crap off others.
When you get a job where being late is simply not a [zb] option you may understand.
I just read this out loud to my dog, she thinks you’re a [zb]ing idiot and I agree with her
There is not a job anywhere that requires you to risk your life (and other road user’s) There may be jobs that run on a tight schedule, but [zb] happens and you get more than the fair share of [zb] when you’re out on the roads
So here’s a scenario, you (Saaamon) are on one of your can’t be late at any cost deliveries, the Kenyon driver (who obviously has a similar load) smashes into the lorry in front because traffic suddenly stopped after a car aquaplaned into the barrier, now the whole motorway is shut down for hours while the Air Ambulance amputate the driver’s legs so they can extract him from the lump of mangled metal he is trapped in. Now there are two loads that cannot possibly be late, they’re both stuck, your’s may get there at some point, Kenyon’s load is spread all over the inside two lanes of the motorway and will never make it.
What happens
Does the factory have to shut down, putting hundreds of people out of work
Do babies and small furry animals start dropping dead
Does the sky fall in and the world come to an end
NO
So is there any need to put your life and those around you in danger to save a few seconds
NO
Do you talk a complete load of ■■■■■■■■
YES
^ This.Nuf said.
The idiots are driving cab overs which are likely to put them in that situation of the fire service having to to chop a driver’s legs off to get the driver out of a crushed cab because that driver was stupid enough to think that driving closer to the wagon in front will get the job done a bit quicker.
Or worse they run into the back of a car or even a line of traffic in which they walk away but some of those who were unlucky enough to be in front of them don’t.
Tight schedules mean driving fast when conditions allow it not when they don’t.The above says everything about the bs idea of speed limiters which slow trucks down on clear roads in good conditions where some time can be made up safely but don’t stop the idiots who want to drive nose to tail with other traffic,in zb conditions,at up to 85-90 kmh.
Carryfast:
Phantom Mark:
PART of the problem is people who hold licences now are doing the job because it’s a job rather than a genuine passion or interest, people who do the job because they are genuinely into it GENERALLY put more pride and effort into it, take a ride around any RDC these days and see how many crooked trucks you see half parked on a bay, the people who give a £$%^&* about the job will be the guys parked neat and tidy, because it’s personal pride, the cash earners will be on a bay and that’s all that matters, and it’s the same on the open road, I curse myself if I mis-judge a pass on another truck and up coming back in too close to a junction I am planning on leaving at, “Johhny don’t give a FFF” won’t give it a second thought, cut you up and think no more of it, he doesn’t care, he is just earning money.
I don’t live the trucker life (as an old boss said to me once), but I do take great pride on how I drive, and how people see me driving.
In this case though it’s not even an issue of putting a trailer on the dock a bit zb’d it seems to be a case of driving on a motorway with a 6 foot seperation distance behind the wagon in front.
I didn’t mean that quite literally, more of a highlight of examples of who can and can’t be bothered, probably an inadequate example.
ajt:
Phantom Mark:
Quite frankly mate the reason the standard has slipped so low is because every man and his dog has a HGV licence now, where before it was blokes/ladies that had a passion for the job, and that brought pride and professionalism with it, ie dole’ies with free licences given to them, a mass of people from other parts of the work force retrained when they got made redundant, foreign nationals, and general slipping of driving standards over the years has all brought the job into disrepute, my comment is a very broad generalisation of course but some valid reasons mentioned.
I find myself cursing just as many HGV drivers these days as cars to be honest, just ignore the knobs and stay clear of them and crack on with it mate
No one pays 2k for a licence, all the hassle, zero social life, lack of family life, abuse, crap pay, long hours disgust and filth just because its a JOB. No chance.
IMO it comes down to pressure more than anything.
That’s the point, not everyone pays for it
No filth in my job, home every day, relatively OK’ish money, no pressure, you clearly have a job which is just highlighting the worst aspects of the job mate.
I did my apprenticeship as a joiner I passed my test in 2008 6 years after starting college at the age of 22 I could only go for my hgv at 21 for which I paid the best part of £2500 myself! It’s in the blood with my dad and his dad being drivers, at the end of the day when I go down the road more often than not 7/10 times the next driver I meet will be 50+ so what happens when thy retire stick a load of newbies on the road! Same is happening now and the old boys do t like it, and I had at least 2 people last week telling me that young lads shouldn’t be doing it we are “cocking the job up” !? What’s the point at making the job harder for anyone! Let’s face it i been driving hgv for nearly five years and am learning everyday! The job has change from when I was going with my dad when was little! With trackers and timed delivery’s all the time! So you can understand why drivers drive like idiots and it’s not just the young lads or the ones with no experience either! At the end of the day if it rains slow down! I always keep a safe distance when it rains/snow/hails even when it’s sunny I never go to close to anyone! No point doesn’t really get you there much quicker!
I am here: maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.312277,-3.464905