Railroad Tracks

On this damp and dismal Tuesday here is some “Distance Learning” for you all to tell your kids about bet it’s not on their I Players!!! But of course Gramp’s knows every thing!!!

The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That’s an exceedingly odd number.
Why was that gauge used?
Because that’s the way they built them in Scotland, and Scottish expatriates designed the US railroads.
Why did the Scottish build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that’s the gauge they used.
Why did ‘they’ use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they had used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing?
Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the long distance roads in Scotland, because that’s the spacing of the wheel ruts.

So who built those old rutted roads? Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (including Scotland) for their legions. Those roads have been used ever since.
And the ruts in the roads?
Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels.

Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore the United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot. Bureaucracies live forever…
So the next time you are handed a specification/procedure/process and wonder ‘What horse’s ■■■ came up with this?’ you may be exactly right. Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the rear ends of two war horses. (Two horses’ asses.)

Now, the twist to the story:
When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank.
These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah.

The engineers who designed the SRBs would have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site.
The railroad line from the factory happens to run through a tunnel in the mountains, and the SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track, as you now know, is about as wide as two horses’ behinds.

So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the world’s most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of two horses’ asses. And you thought being a horse’s ■■■ wasn’t important? Ancient horses’ asses control almost everything… and current Horses’ Asses in government are controlling everything else!
AND HERE ENDED THE LESSON!

Hiya …very very good… top marks… know one can disagree that measurement.
if only the romans had lived long enough to see the outcome of their ruts and their
horses ■■■,es
John

Interesting facts.
Isambard Kingdom Brunel initially built the Great Western Railway using a wider gauge which was about 7 feet. It wasn’t compatible with the standard guage and was ultimately eradicated and evantually conformed to the same gauge as the rest of the UK.
I had it in my head that the gauge used was 4 feet 11 but I stand to be corrected.

I’ve heard it mentioned a couple of times on Discoverybchannel that if we had gone with Brunels wide gauge then we could have had 200 mph trains today, but the infrastructure of today won’t support trans that fast.

Sorry to say 4foot 8 1/2 inches was from the north east England and used by George and Robert Stevenson for the Stockton to Darlington railway he got the Idear from the coal tramways from the collierys to the Tyne were he lived you can see a old tram way in tanfeild near stanley co durham but that’s me being a nerd

Angus25:
Sorry to say 4foot 8 1/2 inches was from the north east England and used by George and Robert Stevenson for the Stockton to Darlington railway he got the Idear from the coal tramways from the collierys to the Tyne were he lived you can see a old tram way in tanfeild near stanley co durham but that’s me being a nerd

At the risk of being a bigger nerd, it was adopted by George Stephenson for the very reasons that you describe. The early wagonways in the Durham coalfields of North East England were a (near enough) 4 feet 8 inches. After 15 years, it was widened to 4 feet 81/2 inches and was known as the ‘Stephenson Gauge’. It was adopted by act of Parliament in 1846. Fellow nerds can read the act here - railwaysarchive.co.uk/docume … eg1846.pdf

A similar thing was going on in the " jungly" parts of the world. The Japanese makers of 4x4s found that their motors were pretty useless unless they had the same " gauge "as the Land Rover.

All quite accurate but the tunnel/bridge dimensions are to clear a “loading gauge” which is the outline of a closed railway van plus a bit clearance.All structures on the railways including track spacing between adjacent tracks are built/positioned to take this into account.

Brunel’s 7ft gauge gave both superior comfort and safety, but someone in the North must have had a lot more influence with Westminster.

I couldn’t give 2ft 4 an a quarter inches but it was interesting :smiley: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

The broad gauge that Brunel used on the G.W.R. had a problem because the axles would break .At that time there was no differential gear so the wheels were going around curves at the same speed,this was pronounced on the 6 foot 6 inches gauge whereas with standard gauge they got away with it .The new locomotive Tornado has been built about 2 inches lower than her original class mates because the loading gauge has been lowered in the last 50 odd years.

nick2008:
I couldn’t give 2ft 4 an a quarter inches but it was interesting :smiley: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

:laughing:

Retired Old ■■■■:
Brunel’s 7ft gauge gave both superior comfort and safety, but someone in the North must have had a lot more influence with Westminster.

From what I heard somewhere in the past, the idea was it was easier to convert to the smaller gauge as the track could be laid inside the existing 7ft ones, where as to go the other way some structures around lines may have had to be moved, sections widened ect…

alamcculloch:
The new locomotive Tornado has been built about 2 inches lower than her original class mates because the loading gauge has been lowered in the last 50 odd years.

Close but no cigar. Tornado was actually built lower to comply with Overhead Line Equipment regs, effectively to increase its route availability; there have been issues with this regarding other preserved steam locomotives, and it’s to reduce the risk of damage to the wires.

There isn’t actually a “one size fits all” loading gauge in the UK; there are several lines with a restricted one necessitating specialised locomotives and stock. If anything, the maximum has actually increased in recent years with the advent of the Channel Tunnel.

It’s a shame if we didn’t rip up tracks in the 60s under beaching the rail industry may of been in good health yes the gov want more freight on trains but they cut to deep just think if we had some one like Brunel in charge of the country both us truckers and trains could work together

UK gauge was 4’10". This was originally measured from the centre of the rail. But when they discovered that the flange was better suited on the wheel, and on the inner edge, they re-measured it as 4’8.5" from the inner edge of the rail. Since then, all rail has been gauged this way.

The origins are accurate though.

Wow, I have nothing to add other than that our little TNUK history lesson was very interesting.

Congratulations to all contributors.

I too can cut and paste:

The North England tramway gauge apparently had been arrived at by starting with an overall track width of five feet and using rails that were two inches wide. Five feet minus four inches for the rails equals four-foot-eight. (I’m skipping some complicated history here, but that’s the gist of it.) Stephenson later widened the tracks a half inch for practical reasons, making the standard gauge four feet, eight and a half inches. While this is an “exceedingly odd number,” it derives from a basic track width of five feet, which is not odd at all.