If you roll out of bed, shove your digicard in so you don’t forget, but don’t alter the mode, will your spreadover count from when the card went in or from your first actual move?
(Yes, yes, I know about showing other work, but personally I find it’s safer to do my checks at night and just look over my tyres and coupling on my way past to go for a ■■■■ in the morning. I’m in the same truck 24 hours a day, 5 days a week at least, so monitor defects on an ongoing basis.)
I can’t answer for Geebee45 but as the digital tachograph defaults to “other work” then the answer has to be that your time will start when you insert the card and not when you first move.
Sorry that’s not the answer you wanted but blame the people who gave the specifications for the digital tachograph 
Wrong. If it’s on rest when you do the shoving, it stays on rest after you’ve shoved. My Siemens does, anyway.
Hence the question, you see. 
Lucy:
Wrong. If it’s on rest when you do the shoving, it stays on rest after you’ve shoved. My Siemens does, anyway.Hence the question, you see.
I wasn’t aware of that as I’ve never finished work with a digital tachograph on rest 
Lucy:
Wrong. If it’s on rest when you do the shoving, it stays on rest after you’ve shoved. My Siemens does, anyway.Hence the question, you see.
Yep, that’s the way it works on my digi as well. I often get in it after the agency driver has used it at night, shove my card in then have to switch it from rest because that is how he left it. I never leave it on rest when I eject the card as I am not on rest at that point as I still have to sling keys into the office. Manual entry next morning to cover the period after card came out.
As for your original question I have no idea but I guess the act of shoving the card in is by default work so…
Coffeeholic:
As for your original question I have no idea but I guess the act of shoving the card in is by default work so…
True. But, arguably, so could the act of opening the curtains, thus attaining a clear view ahead of, and around the vehicle.
One would hope that a sense of proportionality would endure.
“Other work” is defined in REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 as all activities which are defined as working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC except ‘driving’.
Article 4 REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006:
(e) ‘other work’ means all activities which are defined as
working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC
except ‘driving’, including any work for the same or
another employer, within or outside of the transport
sector;
Working time is defined in Article 3 (a) DIRECTIVE 2002/15/EC as time you’re “at the disposal of the employer and exercising his functions or activities”, I wouldn’t have thought that the act of inserting the card would necessarily mean that you were not able to dispose of the time as you wish, therefore not at the disposal of the employer, therefore not in working time as defined by the regulations if the tacho shows a continuation of the rest period.
DIRECTIVE 2002/15/EC:
(a) ‘working time’ shall mean:
- in the case of mobile workers: the time from the beginning
to the end of work, during which the mobile
worker is at his workstation, at the disposal of the
employer and exercising his functions or activities,
I am taking cover as a precaution though 
See now, my arguement is that I’m not paid by the hour and what I do with my time is entirely my own business as long as the freight gets there when it needs to.
If I choose to go early and chance an early tip-out that’s my look out, and if I shove my card in as soon as I get up because I know I’m a bit dopey and liable to forget until the dashboard lights up and tells me otherwise, that’s down to me as well. I’m certainly not at anyone’s beck and call, I can go several days without speaking to our office on a good week. They know I’m reliable enough that they can just keep sending me work by text and if they haven’t heard from me it’s because there hasn’t been a problem.
Ergot, the act of shoving in the card does NOT mean I am working. It means I have potentially banged my head on the tacho - I just leave it resting in the slot all week after ejecting, I don’t actually take it out. Wouldn’t be the first time. Besides which, if I was on the Continent it would be in all the time, in fact I may well start doing that anyway… 
The reason I’m wondering, btw, is that the other day I got caught in traffic and pushed into a plus-13 spread as a result, based on the time I shoved the card in. However, I didn’t actually move until 20 minutes later, and the spread would have been bang on 13 based on that time. I had over 11 off. In the event, I was able to get home on the Friday without needing an extra 15, but if I had, could I have dismissed that day because of the difference between the times or would that have been too cheeky by far?
Will wait for the definitive answer, I think. 
I like this question as it has answered one for me.
I too wake up, turn the ignition on, shove the card in and work out if i have had 9 or 11
I then let the truck do the automatic compulsory checks while I make my first cup of tea.
I always wondered if the act of shoving it in was the start of my day, or is it the time I push the mode switch?
Oh I just love questions like this one (NOT).
However, Lucy, you have raised a very valid point.
In my opinion if you want to stick the card in the tacho when you are still ‘resting’ then that is fine by me. As we are talking digital here, make sure that the VU is recording ‘rest’ and DO NOT enter the ‘start of duty location’ when you put the card in. Now go off and have tea, a pee or whatever else you want to do that is counted as ‘driver free to dispose of their time,’ the definition of rest.
Before you start your tyre / coupling check; enter the ‘start of duty location,’ you’ll have to go into the VU menu to do this, then change the mode to ‘work.’
It may be easier to leave the card in the VU the whole time. If you do, remember to to enter ‘start / finish locations’ each day (accessible via the menu) and most important, change the mode to ‘rest’ after you have done your evening vehicle check.
Tachograph raises a fair point about what the VU records when cards are inserted or withdrawn. Basically the record will be whatever the mode switch was set to when the card was inserted or withdrawn, the mode does not change just because the eject button has been pressed or the card has been pushed into the slot. There is some confusion because many tachos manufactured after September 2007 will automatically switch to recording ‘rest’ once the ignition is switched off. Strictly speaking this is probably not illegal in that all the Regulation requires is that; the VU records ‘driving’ when the vehicle moves and defaults to ‘work’ when no signals are received from the motion sensor. Personally, I feel the default to ‘rest’ once the ignition is switched off is a bad move, it just causes confusion, especially as its’ introduction was not widely published by the manufacturers; if you don’t know about it, then your record may be inaccurate. Imagine places where you are tipping the load. Whilst you’re in the back of the vehicle, the keys are in your pocket or in the sweaty mitts of the warehouse staff. Therefore, the ignition is off and some VU’s will record ‘rest’ unless you have changed the mode to back to ‘work.’ Others won’t, they record whatever you left the mode switch set at, which if you backed onto a bay just before unloading will probably be ‘work.’
Next Question■■?
I should add that some of my colleagues would probably disagree with the above but I would hope that in the light of no other evidence to the contrary, Krankees’ comment about ‘proportionality’ would come into effect.
geebee45:
There is some confusion because many tachos manufactured after September 2007 will automatically switch to recording ‘rest’ once the ignition is switched off. Strictly speaking this is probably not illegal in that all the Regulation requires is that; the VU records ‘driving’ when the vehicle moves and defaults to ‘work’ when no signals are received from the motion sensor. Personally, I feel the default to ‘rest’ once the ignition is switched off is a bad move, it just causes confusion, especially as its’ introduction was not widely published by the manufacturers; if you don’t know about it, then your record may be inaccurate. Imagine places where you are tipping the load. Whilst you’re in the back of the vehicle, the keys are in your pocket or in the sweaty mitts of the warehouse staff. Therefore, the ignition is off and some VU’s will record ‘rest’ unless you have changed the mode to back to ‘work.’ Others won’t, they record whatever you left the mode switch set at, which if you backed onto a bay just before unloading will probably be ‘work.’
IMO bad move and very poorly publicised, I once acquired 5:40 rest in a shift and had to record otherwise on a printout, TM wasn’t happy as I recorded in defect book that tacho was faulty
Cheers for that. I was hoping you would say I could shove card in, press buttons (which i do, else I’ll forget that too I don’t look what I’m doing, just prod between socks… ) and then sit and drink coffee until I get a bay, at which point a bang on the door will alert me I ought to, like, do something, and count my duty time from there. Guess not. ■■■■. Post-it note on the dash it is then…Along with the one to stop me absent mindly exporting my boxlock. Again.
I think I may just have too easy a life to be doing all this idling and forgetting…
geebee45:
It may be easier to leave the card in the VU the whole time. If you do, remember to to enter ‘start / finish locations’ each day (accessible via the menu) ..
I leave mine in when i’m away tramping, but i’ve not been entering start and finish locations. I just park and put it on rest. Am i likeley to flag up infringements for this or get into trouble for it?
Mike-C said;
I leave mine in when i’m away tramping, but i’ve not been entering start and finish locations. I just park and put it on rest. Am i likeley to flag up infringements for this or get into trouble for it?
Short answer, Yes, particularly if done repeatedly. The Good Book says that you are prohibited from further driving and reported for summons. The offence carries a maximum fine in Magistrates of £ 5000.
I know a couple of people who I’d best warn about that then…
geebee45:
Mike-C said;I leave mine in when i’m away tramping, but i’ve not been entering start and finish locations. I just park and put it on rest. Am i likeley to flag up infringements for this or get into trouble for it?
Short answer, Yes, particularly if done repeatedly. The Good Book says that you are prohibited from further driving and reported for summons. The offence carries a maximum fine in Magistrates of £ 5000.
If anyone making that mistake made manual entries on printouts showing the start and finish locations, presumably that would put them in the clear would it ?
geebee45:
Mike-C said;I leave mine in when i’m away tramping, but i’ve not been entering start and finish locations. I just park and put it on rest. Am i likeley to flag up infringements for this or get into trouble for it?
Short answer, Yes, particularly if done repeatedly. The Good Book says that you are prohibited from further driving and reported for summons. The offence carries a maximum fine in Magistrates of £ 5000.
i never knew this. I’m sure lots more don’t. Obviously now i know i will enter my locations. Whats the chances of being summonsed for that retrospectivley if they see you are now doing what you are supposed to be doing?
Mike-C:
Whats the chances of being summonsed for that retrospectivley if they see you are now doing what you are supposed to be doing?
One file baked into a cake coming right up Sir. 
dieseldave:
Mike-C:
Whats the chances of being summonsed for that retrospectivley if they see you are now doing what you are supposed to be doing?One file baked into a cake coming right up Sir.
macplaxton:
dieseldave:
Mike-C:
Whats the chances of being summonsed for that retrospectivley if they see you are now doing what you are supposed to be doing?One file baked into a cake coming right up Sir.
Ya pair of scoundrels !! Looks like i’m on my own