Hi Coffee…quick one for you-
example of a working day-
Start shift/driving to drops etc at 8 am, finish shift at 18:00 (10 hours WORKING)
Total driving time accumulated during shift - 3hours 20 mins.
Question is…how many tacho breaks should be taken in a typical day like i have described above, and what duration?
GlesgaBill:
Hi Coffee…quick one for you-
example of a working day-
Start shift/driving to drops etc at 8 am, finish shift at 18:00 (10 hours WORKING)
Total driving time accumulated during shift - 3hours 20 mins.
Question is…how many tacho breaks should be taken in a typical day like i have described above, and what duration?
You didn’t exceed 4.5 hours driving so no breaks are required for the tacho rules. However you might require breaks for the WTD.
I know you asked for coffeeholic but I would like to have a crack at the answer to this - don’t take this as the definitive answer though
No tacho break needed BUT at the 6 hour point, or before, you must have 15 mins minimum break for the WTD. At, or before, the 9 hour point you must have 30 mins for the WTD. These two breaks in your 10 hour day could be split into say 20 and 25 min breaks but each must be a minimum of 15 mins and total 45 mins as you went over a 9 hour day.
Now lets wait for coffeeholic to see if I got this right 
ROG:
Now lets wait for coffeeholic to see if I got this right
OK, lets see. 
ROG:
No tacho break needed
Correct
ROG:
BUT at the 6 hour point, or before, you must have 15 mins minimum break for the WTD.
Correct, can’t exceed 6 hours work without at least 15 minutes break.
ROG:
At, or before, the 9 hour point you must have 30 mins for the WTD.
No, no no. Why does he need another break at the 9 hour point? 
Nowhere in the WTD regulations does it state that a break must be taken at 9 hours work. If he takes 15 minutes at, or before, 6 hours and he is doing more than 9 hours work the next break must be taken either before exceeding 6 hours work from the end of the first break or taken before the end of the shift, whichever comes first.
I figured that as long as i wasn’t DRIVING for more than 4h 30 mins in a typical day as above, that i would only need a 15 min break every six hours…is that correct? (even though i probably could manage a 15+30 most days)
GlesgaBill:
I figured that as long as i wasn’t DRIVING for more than 4h 30 mins in a typical day as above, that i would only need a 15 min break every six hours…is that correct?
Not quite correct. You do need at least 15 minutes before exceeding 6 hours but when your working time is between 6 and 9 hours you require breaks totalling 30 minutes, which would mean, if you didn’t work more than 9 hours taking a second 15 minutes before you have accumulated another 6 hours. For working time of more than 9 hours you would need another 30 minutes of break, or 2x15 and if you worked say 10 hours those breaks would be before reaching a second 6 hours. In all cases the break(s) must be during a shift and not right at the end because they must interrupt the shift and coming at the end they wouldn’t.
Coffeeholic:
ROG:
At, or before, the 9 hour point you must have 30 mins for the WTD.No, no no. Why does he need another break at the 9 hour point?
Nowhere in the WTD regulations does it state that a break must be taken at 9 hours work. If he takes 15 minutes at, or before, 6 hours and he is doing more than 9 hours work the next break must be taken either before exceeding 6 hours work from the end of the first break or taken before the end of the shift, whichever comes first.
I’ve not still got this then 
as I THOUGHT 
I read that if getting to 9 hours of work during a shift that was,say 11 hours, then 30 mins of breaks were needed during or at the 9 hour point… back to the drawing board…
ROG:
I’ve not still got this then
Dunno where you got that from then as at no point is a break at 9 hours work mentioned in the WTD regulations. The only point mentioned is no more than 6 hours without a break. For working time of between 6 and 9 hours you must have 30 minutes but other than not exceeding 6 hours the rest can be taken when ever during the period. For more than 9 hours you nedd 45 minutes total and again the only restrictions on when it must be taken is not exceeding 6 hours and not at the end of the working time.
In your example of 11 hours work, where 15 minutes was taken at 6 hours the other 30 minutes could be as late as 10:29, leaving 1 minute after the break so it doesn’t come right at the end of the working time.
Understood!!
Thank you both for your replies…much appreciated!
“The only point mentioned is no more than 6 hours without a break”
That’s interesting because:
If I understand this correctly
Assuming your working day does not exceed 5hours 59minutes
( and you have not exceeded 4.5 hours driving )
No Breaks are required AT ALL ?
Regards 2xQ ( Double Q )
DoubleQ:
“The only point mentioned is no more than 6 hours without a break”That’s interesting because:
If I understand this correctly
Assuming your working day does not exceed 5hours 59minutes
( and you have not exceeded 4.5 hours driving )No Breaks are required AT ALL ?
Regards 2xQ ( Double Q )
I know it’s only a minute but 6 hours exactly would also be legal without any break if the shift finished at that point because it says ‘no more than 6 hours without a break’
No Breaks are required AT ALL ?
NONE
“but 6 hours exactly”
Are we talking caesium or atomic clock resolution (like to the billionth of a second)
As the recording device in my Cab only has a resolution of +/- 1 minute 
Now seriously
The WTD is designed to ensure that provision for satisfactory Rest Breaks
Is also provided for Mobil Workers/Drivers who’s working pattern is such that they never reach the boundaries for Rest Breaks (under EU Driver Hours)
As they are confined to a small (local) area
example: Local deliveries by, Pallet[groupings] parcel[groupings], and many more.
Shame its also one of the most misunderstood pieces of EU legistration
Thanks to “Coffeeholic” and “Rog” for Clarifying it
DoubleQ:
Shame its also one of the most misunderstood pieces of EU legistration
Only because most people haven’t read it properly, it really isn’t that complicated. Every term, such as break, working time or POA, is defined and then every requirement is clearly explained.
Coffeeholic:
ROG:
Now lets wait for coffeeholic to see if I got this rightOK, lets see.
ROG:
No tacho break neededCorrect
ROG:
BUT at the 6 hour point, or before, you must have 15 mins minimum break for the WTD.Correct, can’t exceed 6 hours work without at least 15 minutes break.
ROG:
At, or before, the 9 hour point you must have 30 mins for the WTD.No, no no. Why does he need another break at the 9 hour point?
the next break must be taken either before exceeding 6 hours work from the end of the first break or taken before the end of the shift, whichever comes first.
I think i’m gonna get shot for saying this BUT, are you, cofee saying that someone can work for 12h 15m (duty time) on a 15m break, before taking their next break?
eurodad:
I think i’m gonna get shot for saying this BUT, are you, cofee saying that someone can work for 12h 15m (duty time) on a 15m break, before taking their next break?
That’s what the WTD regulations allow, you ony have to read them to see that is possible… 6 hours work, 15 minute break, 6 hours work, 15 minute break, 2 hours 14 minutes work, 15 minute break, 1 minute work and go home would be legal for the WTD, and the tacho rules if 4.5 hours driving wasn’t accumulated in that time. I’m not saying it’s a good thing, only what is and isn’t legal.
I think a lot of people have interpreted, obviously wrongly, the WTD rules to state a 45m break must be taken, by the time 9h duty time has elapsed.
Do you see what i mean?
eurodad:
I think a lot of people have interpreted, obviously wrongly, the WTD rules to state a 45m break must be taken, by the time 9h duty time has elapsed.Do you see what i mean?
I see exactly what you mean about people getting it wrong but that is simply down to the fact they haven’t read the regulations properly, there is nothing in the regulations to say 45 minutes is required by 9 hours working time. The regulations are very clear on the subject of beaks, four short statements covers it. It is so clear when you read those statements, and read them with an open mind forgetting all the MMTM* stuff that there is nothing to interpret, it is a black and white issue.
No more than 6 hours without a break.
A break can be 15 minutes.
6-9 hours work, 30 minutes of break required which can be in one period or two
More than 9 hours, 45 minutes of break required which can be in one, two or three periods.
That’s it, what could be more clear and simple than that? The confusion arises from people reading more into it than that and over complicating it.
*MMTM = My Mate Told Me
I just did 2 days for a firm who asked me to sign a disclaimer which said (IIRC)…
You must take a 30 min break when you reach 6 hours working time, if your driving time reaches 4.5 hours after that time you must take another 30 min break.
Or words to that effect… I signed it & smiled
Melchett:
I just did 2 days for a firm who asked me to sign a disclaimer which said (IIRC)…You must take a 30 min break when you reach 6 hours working time, if your driving time reaches 4.5 hours after that time you must take another 30 min break.
Or words to that effect… I signed it & smiled
Paid by the hour I would have signed that with a smile as well. It’s their money and if they want to waste it I wouldn’t argue. Not paid by the hour, pen would not have touched paper and it could have been a cracking argument. Nothing quite as much fun as arguing with a numpty. 
Paid by the hour & followed it to the letter, sat at Sony Enfield for 30 mins I didn’t need & dawdled back… it’s a hard life