Started new job and got a question, my employer asking me to do:
Sart at 16.00 and finish at 4.00 driving HGV and VAN let me explain route
Start 16.00 (HGV)
vehicle check 16.00-16.10 (HGV)
drive for 4.15h then break 45 min + around 2h other work, returning to depot around 00.00 (HGV)
Pick a VAN up and do driving and other work until 4.00 am
Now is this leagal start 16.00 finish 4.00 with 45min break it works out 11.15H in total now thats x5 days = 56.15H per week, I think I should not work more then 48 average over 27 weeks, what they saying is ok to do this because when I drive VAN I’m under domestic driving regulation, but then they asking to do manual entry on tacho as other work when driving van.
Not sure if you would be able to understand my question but I hope you do and someone could help me out.
secondly you sound like a new driver… the driving industry isnt full of sunny days and loads of rose petals floating throught the air, sometimes you are going to have days or nights or being away all week when things are going to go against you and you sail very close to the edge of the law or maybe even break the law by the way of infrigement ect… thats just the way the industry is, its very busy lots of rushing around and the managers couldnt give 2 hoots for you or your welfare. as long as their load gets delivered quickly and cheaply as possible then thats all that matters to them.
if you want the job then get on and do it because if you start moaning and questioning them they will tell you either like it or lump it its your choice cos there’s plenty out there who will do it.
another point is you will proberly find you know more about the hours and rules and regulations than they do.
Isn’t there a Polish Truckers website where you can ask these questions? (Orys ) You’ll get no help from me mate unless you want me to chip in for a one way ticket back to your neck of the woods but the do good brigade will be along shortly and I’ve no doubt they’ll help you out.
If I am reading this correctly you are driving HGV for approx 6 hours per night, before jumping in van and driving for 4 hours? making total driving time per day 10 hours?
Because you are driving a combination of HGV and van you are within scope of the EU regs, which means you must operate under them for the whole of that day / night. EG you must only drive for 9 hours per day, increasing to 10 hours twice per week.
Also, you should be recording your driving of the van as a manual entry either in a job book, or on the tacho, but this must be identified as driving time and not as other work.
So in short the answer to your question is no it isn’t legal to operate like this (assuming I have understood your question).
On the working time bit… if you are full time employed by this employer and not self employed, and provided you havent signed an opt out agreement you should come under the working time regs, which means you should be working an average of 48 hours, based of 17 or 27 weeks.
Hope this helps, and if I have fluffed anything up Im sure someone who knows what they are talking about will be along soon!
well I think you got me wrong I don’t moan just trying to stay leagal and I don’t mind doing the hours ect. , what I’m trying to understand is this ok to do so I want get problem with vosa ect., I work for the company for a bit but never had to the van run so not sure how they mixed, EU rules and domestic driving rules.
Thanks welltin that’s what I was asking for, like I said in other post I don’t mind do it if is leagal but what they asking me to do is not leagal, and I’m sure they not aware of this but because I know them for a bit of time I will ask the question and see what they say, once again thanks.
malenki22:
Sart at 16.00 and finish at 4.00 driving HGV and VAN
That puts you under the RT(WTD)R night time rules. 4. Working at Night
Do you have a workforce optout agreement for the RT(WTD)R night time rules
If YES, then doing over 10 hours WORK (do not include POA or breaks) is legal
malenki22:
56.15H per week
The average over the reference period (17 or 26 weeks) is the responsibility of the EMPLOYER.
The average is unlikely to ever get checked upon unless there is an incident (perhaps one involving an overtired driver) or an employee tells VOSA.
welltin:
If I am reading this correctly you are driving HGV for approx 6 hours per night, before jumping in van and driving for 4 hours? making total driving time per day 10 hours?
The van driving is ‘other work’ and not counted as ‘driving time’ if the vehicle does not require a tachograph.
So is legal that’s fine, no I don’t optout but do I put manual entry on tacho as other work or driving as the vehicle is no on tacho and is under 3.5t?
malenki22:
well I think you got me wrong I don’t moan just trying to stay leagal and I don’t mind doing the hours ect. , what I’m trying to understand is this ok to do so I want get problem with vosa ect., I work for the company for a bit but never had to the van run so not sure how they mixed, EC rules and domestic driving rules.
You cant mix domestic and EU regs in any week together let alone in one shift
You start on EU you run on EU you start on Domestic you run on domestic
As its been said drive on tacho you can must record your van work be it as other work on the tacho you started on or if yu start on the van you record it at the start before you place in the tacho
As JD said who’s checkin WTD in this world ■■ but if you wanna stay legal do it the right way 1st time every time and the sh17 dont come back on you
malenki22:
So is legal that’s fine, no I don’t optout
So not legal if doing more than 10 hours WORK in a night shift under the RT(WTD)R with no opt-out
Whether that aspect of the rules is ever checked upon I do not know…
nick2008:
You cant mix domestic and EU regs in any week together let alone in one shift
You start on EU you run on EU you start on Domestic you run on domestic
That’s not quite correct -
From Vosa’s GV262;
Many drivers spend some of their time driving under one set of rules and some under another set, perhaps even on the same day. If you work partly under EU rules and partly under GB domestic rules during a day or a week, the following points must be considered:
The time you spend driving under EU rules cannot count as an off-duty period under GB domestic rules.
Driving and other duty under GB domestic rules (including non-driving work in another employment) count as attendance at work but not as a break or rest period under the EU rules.
Driving under EU rules counts towards the driving and duty limits under GB domestic rules.
Any driving under EU rules in a week means that you must take a daily rest period on those days when you actually drive under EU rules, as well as a weekly rest period.
malenki22:
start 16.00 finish 4.00 with 45min break it works out 11.15H in total
So over the 11 hours max daily limit for domestic and therefore on EU rules
just like to add this Rog that make it more or less all hour worked do come under RTD
2.5 Working for two or more employers or another organisation
For the purposes of the Regulations, working time is restricted to work for employers for
whom a mobile worker carries out any in-scope road transport activities (i.e. work covered by
the European drivers’ hours rules). It includes both road transport activities and any other
work for such employers (for instance when a driver also works in an employer’s warehouse).
so therefore all the work the OP does come under RTD regardless of which driving regs he on cos it for the same transport company
malenki22:
start 16.00 finish 4.00 with 45min break it works out 11.15H in total
So over the 11 hours max daily limit for domestic and therefore on EU rules
Doesn’t matter if his duty time is 11 hours 15 minutes, 10 hours or 5 hours. That isn’t what decides if he is on EU or Domestic. Each shift he drives a vehicle which comes under EU rules so he is on those rules for each shift.
If I am reading this correctly you are driving HGV for approx 6 hours per night, before jumping in van and driving for 4 hours? making total driving time per day 10 hours?
6 Hours, the van driving is other work
welltin:
Also, you should be recording your driving of the van as a manual entry either in a job book, or on the tacho, but this must be identified as driving time and not as other work.
It must be recorded on his tacho, not a job book, and it goes down as other work.
Coffeeholic:
Each shift he drives a vehicle which comes under EU rules so he is on those rules for each shift.
That’s the bit I could not find
I thought you had a copy of the regulations and the VOSA guide?
There is nothing to find, he drives a vehicle which comes under EU regs so he is under them, he is using a tacho so I assume it comes in scope of EU regs.
You seem to be saying saying you thought the artic driving would fall under domestic regs, depending on duty time, because he drove a van for part of each shift?
) You’ll get no help from me mate unless you want me to chip in for a one way ticket back to your neck of the woods but the do good brigade will be along shortly and I’ve no doubt they’ll help you out.
