Query regarding B+E Requirement

[jjcymru]

Having done a bit of reading the licencing rules are a bit of a headache.

I dont have the B+E category as havent done the trailer test or a class one licence.

However i need to know what i can tow my MAM 1420kg caravan with, i already have nissan patrol but i believe i cannot drive the combination as the plated weights outweigh the 3500kg im restricted to without the B+E category.

Am i right in saying i need something like a volvo estate with a GVW of 1900kg ish to tow the 1420kg caravan so that im under the “plated” 3500kg rule?

[gembo]

All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM. They also have entitlement to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kgs MAM.

[gembo]

jjcymru:
I dont have the B+E category as havent done the trailer test of a class one

Forget the bit in red for a minute. Its the B+E entitlement you need to worry out, if you dont have this, you cant tow a trailer period!

jjcymru:
Am i right in saying i need something like a volvo estate with a GVW of 1900kg ish to tow the 1420kg caravan so that im under the “plated” 3500kg rule?

Thats irrelevant. You need a B+E to tow. But i digress, if the Patrol is heavier (kerb weight) than the van which im sure it is, you can tow it leggaly. I tow a 1350 MAM with a 1600kg kerb weight Passat.

More here-
direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr … G_10013073

[jjcymru]

i passed post 1997 so dont have the category at the moment.

the caravan has a gvw of 1420kg

the nissan patrol is 2300kg unladen with a gvw of 3150kg, its towing capacity is 3500kg.

[saaamon]

You can tow a car trailer on a cat b license providing the trailer doesnt weigh more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle and the train weight is under 3500kg. So your exactly right you need something more than around 1600kg ideally because remember you’ll no doubt take luggage and passengers.

[saaamon]

jjcymru:
i passed post 1997 so dont have the category at the moment.

the caravan has a gvw of 1420kg

the nissan patrol is 2300kg unladen with a gvw of 3150kg, its towing capacity is 3500kg.

whats the actual weight of the caravan? Could only weigh a ton?

[djw]

jjcymru:
i passed post 1997 so dont have the category at the moment.

the caravan has a gvw of 1420kg

the nissan patrol is 2300kg unladen with a gvw of 3150kg, its towing capacity is 3500kg.

You are not licensed to tow this combination.

The current B+E rules take some understanding! The important thing to remember with B+E is that it is based on MAM (maximum authorised mass), not actual weights.

Any trailer of up to 750kg MAMÂ can be towed behind a category B vehicle on a category B licence.

Your caravan is 1420kg MAM, so you have to look at the other possibility:1. trailer MAMÂ more than 750kg, and

1. vehicle MAM + trailer MAM less than 3500kg, and
2. vehicle unladen weight (kerbweight) greater than trailer MAM

Your combination satisfies 1 and 3, but not 2 - the total MAMÂ is 4570kg. With the vehicle you have, this second route will never be possible as you will never be able to satisfy 2. The heaviest trailer you can tow with this vehicle without B+E on your licence is 750kg.

To tow this caravan with your current vehicle, you’re going to need to take a trailer driving test - which will be cheaper than buying a second vehicle. If you already have C, it seems silly to take the B+E test - you may as well take the C+E (Class 1) test. C+E upgrades your B to B+E (though make sure DVLA include B+E on your licence) and, under current rules, will also upgrade any PCV entitlement you have now, or gain in the future, to the +E version.

If you want to buy a different vehicle to use your category B licence, you will need a vehicle with kerbweight greater than 1420kg and MAM less than 2080kg. You may well likely struggle to find anything that will tow your caravan satisfactorily in that range.

For example, the new Vauxhall Zafira Tourer 2.0CDTi (165PS, stop/start, manual version) can tow 1450kg maximum - but is 2430kg MAM. Cars have got heavier over time.

The only cars in the current Vauxhall range that fit your criteria are Vauxhall Astra hatchbacks with manual transmission and three of the possible engines:* 1.6i 16v Turbo (1965kg MAM, towing capacity 1500kg)

• 1.7CDTi 16v 125PS (2020kg MAM, towing capacity 1500kg)
• 2.0CDTi 16v (2060kg MAM, towing capacity 1500kg)

You would have to check to see that kerbweight was heavy enough.

Be careful, though - if you ordered one of these cars, options and even trim level may well increase the kerbweight and MAM. Automatic transmission or the Sports Tourer body leave you with insufficient towing capacity.

I doubt you’d be ordering a new car - I mention these figures to show that you are right on the limit of towing capacity and MAM to tow your caravan on a category B licence. I wouldn’t think an Astra hatchback (or similar) is really an ideal car to tow a caravan - you’d be better sticking with the car you have and taking a trailer test. Towing will be much easier when you’re not close to the limits.

Edit: added examples of possible tow cars for category B, corrected point 3 to ‘vehicle unladen weight (kerbweight) greater than trailer MAM’

[saaamon]

djw:

jjcymru:
i passed post 1997 so dont have the category at the moment.

the caravan has a gvw of 1420kg

the nissan patrol is 2300kg unladen with a gvw of 3150kg, its towing capacity is 3500kg.

The important thing to remember with B+E is that it is based on MAM (maximum authorised mass), not actual weights.

Thats where i went wrong.

Best advice then is to do your class 1 and then you’ll not only be able to tow your caravan but also get treated with respect from other class 1 drivers… only joking

[jjcymru]

so class one it is! can anyone recommend a trainer in south wales?

[miketdt]

B+e training and DSA test fee will cost £470. PM me

[djw]

miketdt:
B+e training and DSA test fee will cost £470. PM me

I think the OP is more interested in C+E, on the basis he may as well upgrade his LGV entitlement at the same time.

[gembo]

Gembo:

jjcymru:
I dont have the B+E category as havent done the trailer test of a class one

Its the B+E entitlement you need to worry out, if you dont have this, you cant tow a trailer period!

jjcymru:
Am i right in saying i need something like a volvo estate with a GVW of 1900kg ish to tow the 1420kg caravan so that im under the “plated” 3500kg rule?

Thats irrelevant. You need a B+E to tow. But i digress, if the Patrol is heavier (kerb weight) than the van which im sure it is, you can tow it leggaly. I tow a 1350 MAM with a 1600kg kerb weight Passat.

More here-
direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr … G_10013073

djw:
You are not licensed to tow this combination.

Whilst i know im in danger of repeating myself, thats what i said in the second post right at the very beginning which for your conveniance is quoted above in red
And in good ole “Coffeeholic” tradition, I hope that helps

[merc0447]

I can drive a 18.75metre drawbar or a 44ton ‘‘juggernaught’’ artic but i cannae drive a minibus lol

[repton]

Gembo:
Its the B+E entitlement you need to worry out, if you dont have this, you cant tow a trailer period!

Gembo:
Whilst i know im in danger of repeating myself, thats what i said in the second post right at the very beginning which for your conveniance is quoted above in red

You can repeat yourself all you like, it doesn’t mean you’re right.

You can tow lots of trailers legally with just a category B licence and no B+E. In fact the link you yourself quoted in your second post on this thread specifically lists what combinations of plated weights are legal for a category B licence holder.

The relevant law, from that page, is as follows:

Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

So a 1420kg MAM caravan can be legally towed by someone with B but not B+E as long as the towing vehicle has a MAM of 2080kg or less and an unladen weight of 1420kg or more.

Paul

[djw]

Gembo:

djw:
You are not licensed to tow this combination.

Whilst i know im in danger of repeating myself, thats what i said in the second post right at the very beginning which for your conveniance is quoted above in red

You did indeed - and I had seen that when I wrote my post. However, as repton has noted, you then incorrectly said that Category B did not allow any towing.

The reason for working through the rules in detail was to draw out the very limited range of vehicles that could tow the original poster’s caravan and remain within Category B, and the likely unsuitability of those vehicles to tow the caravan.

Everyone, including the original poster, is now in agreement that the way ahead is to stick with the vehicle he has and gain BE entitlement, likely by taking his CE test.

[gembo]

repton:

Gembo:
Its the B+E entitlement you need to worry out, if you dont have this, you cant tow a trailer period!

Gembo:
Whilst i know im in danger of repeating myself, thats what i said in the second post right at the very beginning which for your conveniance is quoted above in red

You can repeat yourself all you like, it doesn’t mean you’re right.

You can tow lots of trailers legally with just a category B licence and no B+E. In fact the link you yourself quoted in your second post on this thread specifically lists what combinations of plated weights are legal for a category B licence holder.

The relevant law, from that page, is as follows:

Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

So a 1420kg MAM caravan can be legally towed by someone with B but not B+E as long as the towing vehicle has a MAM of 2080kg or less and an unladen weight of 1420kg or more.

Paul

Qouted from a caravan page, Paul.
“”“”“Since 1 January 1997 all drivers who hold category C or D entitlement have been limited to trailers up to 750kgs MAM; Category C+E or D+E must be held in order to tow trailers in excess of this.”“”“”“”
So, i cant see how he can tow a cravan until he pases either his C+E or the trailer test.
We’l have to agree to disagree. Theres no way he can tow that 1400kg van until he’s done the trailer test. Matters not if pulls it with a nissan partol or the bloody space shuttle.

[djw]

Gembo:
Qouted from a caravan page, Paul.
“”“”“Since 1 January 1997 all drivers who hold category C or D entitlement have been limited to trailers up to 750kgs MAM; Category C+E or D+E must be held in order to tow trailers in excess of this.”“”“”“”
So, i cant see how he can tow a cravan until he pases either his C+E or the trailer test.
We’l have to agree to disagree. Theres no way he can tow that 1400kg van until he’s done the trailer test. Matters not if pulls it with a nissan partol or the bloody space shuttle.

The rules you quoted are for when the tractor is in category C or D. The rules when the tractor is in category B are as repton and I quoted.

[madbaz]

The rules are not complicated, no more complicated than the WTD, the same peeps seem to ad 2 & 2 & get 5 YET AGAIN. Like the 30 minutes after 6 hours thing.

Simply put,

Pre '97

Up to 8.25 tonnes.

Post '97

up to 4.25 tonnes total MAM, providing the trailer MAM is no more than 750kg.

up to 3.5 tonnes total MAM, providing the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the UNLADEN (kerb) WEIGHT of the prime mover.

The MAM and unladen weights, are different things and are clearly visible in the directgov links.

Nissan patrol unladen (as per OP) is 2300 kg, trailer has a MAM of 1420 kg, 2300+1420=3720 which is a simple NO on a post '97 cat B license.

THIS IS THE LINK TO THE DIRECT GOV WEBSITE not some wobblebox site.

[gembo]

MADBAZ:
The rules are not complicated, no more complicated than the WTD, the same peeps seem to ad 2 & 2 & get 5 YET AGAIN. Like the 30 minutes after 6 hours thing.

Simply put,

Pre '97

Up to 8.25 tonnes.

Post '97

up to 4.25 tonnes total MAM, providing the trailer MAM is no more than 750kg.

up to 3.5 tonnes total MAM, providing the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the UNLADEN (kerb) WEIGHT of the prime mover.

The MAM and unladen weights, are different things and are clearly visible in the directgov links.

Nissan patrol unladen (as per OP) is 2300 kg, trailer has a MAM of 1420 kg, 2300+1420=3720 which is a simple NO on a post '97 cat B license.

At last, thanks Baz.
So he cant tow the bloody caravan as is what ive been saying

[repton]

Gembo:
Qouted from a caravan page, Paul.

That quote refers to category C and D holders, not category B. If you read the contents of the link to an official government website that you yourself posted near the top of this thread you will realise that, with the right vehicle, a category B licence holder can legally tow the OP’s caravan.

I’m happy to agree to differ though, I know I’m right

Paul