Putting a Bedford KM back to work

[looooo]

I have been daydreaming about doing this for ages so its about time I got someone to pour cold water on the idea.

We deliver topsoil, bark etc in tonne bags as well as turf to a range of private addresses and building sites inside the LEZ.

Always down tiny residential streets with parked cars everywhere and the customer is especially happy if we can get through the back access road, under all the branches, to crane directly in to the back garden.

We use 18t 4 wheelers, wheelbase 5120 (about 200") with a 20’ body (high mesh dropside) and a Hiab XS 099 (forward mounted foldable) or similar… has to be able to hold a bag at about 7 meters. Vehicle height is 11’6". Couldn’t really go above those dimensions, smaller would be advantageous as long as payload remains as close to 9 ish tonnes.

Since the LEZ came in I know vehicles built before 01/01/1973 are exempt.

Bedfords were unfortunately before my time so I have no first hand experience of them, but a number of things about the KM jump out at me.

Lovely high ground clearance. -Modern 4x2 vehicle bumpers have very low clearance which can be a real pain on rough terrain and avoiding garden features.

Lovely small cab. -I know this was a criticism of the KM (a TK cab) but in this application it would be an advantage for access/avoiding trees etc.

Good visibility. -The driving position means you are at the top of the windscreen so good for immediately in front, and the glass to rear and all round give you nearly 360 view.

Those lovely big double bumpers. -Ideal

What was the turning circle like?

So I have been imagining getting hold of a well restored example of a 1972 Bedford KM, 466 engine (no adblue or electronics/computers!) mounting a modern crane and 20’ mesh dropside body and making myself a very suitable, LEZ compliant, eye-catching vehicle for my application.

So the sort of things I am wondering are…

How difficult would it be to fit a modern crane? Find PTO to fit?

Could I retrofit a digital tacho ?

At 16 tonne gross I understand the front axle was rated at only 6 tonnes (10 tonne rear) which could be a problem with a forward mounted crane.

I’d be thinking of adding some modern wide angle mirrors for improved visibility and also to make it as close to a usable everyday vehicle as possible.

Vehicle safety has come a long way since the early 70’s. Those bumpers look very solid but with the parcel shelf behind and your legs VERY close to the front I wonder about crush in a forward collision.

Mileages we do are relatively small as they are “urban” deliveries but a blast round the North Circular or M25 is occasionally required. Consequently there is no real need for speed (usually in London traffic) but would this vehicle feel hopelessly underpowered around todays lorries? Does anyone know what kind of MPG I might expect? Am I right the first couple of gears require double clutch? I would very much appreciate developing the left leg and skill required.

I have no real experience of the classic scene so…

I imagine parts availability could make this a non starter, though googling produces a few specialists.

What are the chances of finding a garage that would be willing to maintain such a vehicle to standard.

What are the legalities of running a classic commercially?

Are there any major stumbling blocks that I am missing?

Also any comments about the costs of fitting any of the above or general running costs would be great.

Just a dream at the mo. but the radio has stopped working in mine so I’ve had lots of time to turn this over for the last week!

Any help or insults gratefully received.

[3300john]

Hiya i had a string of Km’s in the 80s,i ran them into the ground as new lorries appeared. id do leek 4am(staffs into London )10 drops
in the middle of London (Drury land petty France Parliment and surrounding area back to Palmers green load then park up at
Toddington at 1500hrs. cruse speed was 65 to 70 mph mirrors was as big as you could get. brillant lorry really very underestimated.
its finding one. most have been exported to India. they love them out there. well they did the supply has dried up i think.
we had techo,s in ours so no trouble, power take off no trouble there. there,s army ones about but they are 4 wheel drive.
you don’t get any turning circle with 4x4 as the UJs restrict the lock.

[cav551]

A KM has the turning circle of the Ark Royal, but apart from that and finding someone willing to drive it every day the rest of it should be solvable. The biggest problem with parts will be that the parking brake used lock actuators, which haven’t been around for a long time, but you should be able to modify the system. A KM flat ought to carry 10.5 tons imperial. Perhaps your biggest problem will be persuading someone to part with a ‘well restored example’ for you to knock about. The cost of getting the vehicle to that condition will have way exceeded your idea of what it is worth to you as a secondhand vehicle… think brand new, top of the range with all bells and whistles with a custom paint job.

[wheel_nut]

Lovely idea, but I think you would struggle to find one to use, if they are available, they will be expensive to buy. Try somewhere like Leavesleys or an Army dispersal sale. PTO’s will still be available for a Turner gearbox

[dave_the_renegade]

I drove a Bedford KM tipper with a payload of 10 ton 8 cwt,running at 16 ton gross. 466 engine with a 5 speed gearbox and a 2 speed axle,it was ahead of most other vehicles of that generation for power and speed, but lacked the comfort of the Ergo cabbed Leylands.
Cheers Dave.

[tonyj105]

if your really serious on this kind of project, try looking at a later bedford or awd TL instead of a KM, basically the same cab but were better inside , AWD TL had a perkins phaser engine,Bedford TL 8.2 blue series , power steering etc, oh and a TILT CAB as opposed to the 466 bedford engine ,and usually armstrong steering , and engine access via side flap

fyi there’s an 84 16 tonne TL for sale on autotrader for 1500 plus vat, to get your juices flowing

[newmercman]

I had a KM with a 24’ flat, used to deliver Sarson’s Vinegars on it, not the easiest vehicle to negotiate the streets of London I have to say

[gingerfold]

I admire your enthusiasm and don’t want to pour cold water on your ambitions, but I think that in reality you would find it very hard work in London with a vintage era vehicle. You would be bound to attract the wrong sort of attention from the authorities no matter how pristine you kept it. I speak as someone who has restored several old lorries and I used to enjoy road runs with them in the show season, sometimes covering as much as 400 miles in a weekend, but putting one to work every day, no thank you.

[looooo]

Thanks a lot for the replies.

A rarer thing than I might have thought, and at 42 years old it would be!

Useful comment about the 4x4 having a wider turn as I had half considered 4x4s. Thanks 3300John.

Great to hear first hand experience of them. We get about 10t payload now so 10t on a flat sounds pretty good.

Keen on the very basic but effective philosophy. I have a 1977 motorbike, nothing fancy, a very basic Honda CG125. Thats the beauty of it, very basic, simple to work on and parts still cheaply available because the design was so good it has changed very little and they are still produced. Use it all the time.

I appreciate taking such a collectors item to “knock about” might not be the best idea. I knew they were rare, but not perhaps just quite how rare. Had thought restored OR relatively straight and salvageable… but perhaps not.

Still love the design though.

Last two replies come in while I was typing this. Yes, you pre-empted me there tonyj105. Was going to say maybe I should look at later ones after all. Defeats the LEZ workaround but that wasn’t the only reason I’m drawn to them, its more the shape size and what not.

I’d have thought it would be really messy and expensive (and counterproductive) to be fitting filters to try to get compliant with something like an 80’s AWD TL? Saying that I notice a lot of very old Volvo FL skip wagons and such like still working away.

Still think a Bedford would do my job brilliantly though! (and yes a tilt cab would help)

[shirtbox2003]

KMs, biggest pile of (zbs) ever made.nice to drive but had problems with camshaft gears sheering,rear hubs shearing off,underpowered,clutch wear,gearbox selectors.Nearly broke many a small oporater. steer well clear,buy an old Leyland if anything.

[looooo]

This is pretty close the sort of thing I have in mind. Spruced up obviously.

trucks.autotrader.co.uk/used-tru … odel/other

[cav551]

The picture shows a TL tilt- cabbed chassis. The 4x4 Army Bedford - MK or MJ does not use the heavyweight KM chassis and is only rated at about 9 tons Gross, so the payload is only about 4 tons. You would need to go up to an Army 4x4 TM to get 16tons gvw which means a much larger cab.

[looooo]

It is the ground clearance I am most interested in. We don’t spend sufficient time off road to justify additional costs of 4x4.

This one of ours.
All that stuff down at the front is a pain.

Plan is fitting that sort of body to something like this.
Or this.
Or this.

[tonyj105]

i tend to favour having the crane on the rear end, gives more flexibility in offloading as you can off load over the rear as well. had a detachable one on a scania 92 years ago , 16 tonnes of steel up to lancs without the crane on and 14 tonnes of bricks back down , stick the crane on the back and away to offload.

[emmerson2]

I think its a cracking idea! Go for it. I drove a TK1475 in 1976 which carried 10 ton, Aluminium flat bed but no Hiab.

[looooo]

Thanks emmerson2 !

Having the crane up front is easy to see where you are placing it and makes things quicker, though you could sometimes get better access if it was on the back.
Advantage of having it on the back is you could then add a drawbar hitch which would be great!

Your detachable one sounds pretty clever.

Interesting how there is a mix of good and some bad experiences with the reliability of them.

Still interested to know, what kind of Mpg you would get.

[lemonmouth]

I’d keep scouring all the classic and vintage magazines for one, over the last 12 months or so there has been quite a few decent KM’s for sale across the country! Hope you find one, would love to see it at work in the smoke

[cav551]

I don’t know what sort of an answer you will get, but if you really are serious Rumsey oils from near Bexhill run two TK Bedfords on daily cooking oil delivery and collection round East Kent and Sussex, they may be worth a call to find out what they think.

These are NOT KM Bedfords, but the smaller models I think one is a KH and the other a KE, but I may be wrong.

I passed ODY on Tuesday.

rumseyoils.com/

flickr.com/photos/29485695@N … 49422@N21/

[parkroyal2100]

For some reason your post reminded me of Butser Turf (I lived in a village between Waterlooville and Petersfield as a youngster), and then I had an image in my head that they used Bedfords. Unusually, I was right:

Not much use to you I know, but there it is. I think the subject of the photo may be an ex-Army MK (bumper off a later TL) tho’ I have a suspicion some were used by P.O.T.

Best of luck with your project. I like the idea but (isn’t there always a but) I think you might find a KM feels pretty gutless if you’re used to modern turbocharged motors, not to say slow-steering, noisy, stinking hot in the summer and freezing [zb] cold in winter, and any driver over 5’6" will get a hunchback.

[looooo]

Thanks for the useful link Cav551. That’s great…

And ParkRoyal good to see that turf pic too!

Noise is something I wondered about. I play with Listers (in boats) a bit and they can certainly make a racket. Might make the wrong kind of impression pulling up to some of the posher mansions we frequent.

I really need to get myself to some classic shows and try to find some running to get an idea if the smoke and noise would make it too impractical.

By the sound of it though so far there are a good few reasons I shouldn’t pursue this… but not yet any reasons I couldn’t.

Apart from the useful info earlier about specific parts which may be hard to source, it does seem there is generally still a reasonable stock around.

Countries around the world continue to maintain ancient vehicles so it should be doable, its just that the Lez gives us a reason to make it worthwhile.

I am not dismissive of the lez. To reduce the impact on air quality I’d be considering running it on iso standard biodiesel, something like this.
uptownoil.co.uk/index.html

Its good news that fitting a crane shouldn’t be a problem and a body is straightforward enough so not much else to sort out beyond that.
All assuming you could find one… and had the cash!
Sounding pretty expensive at the mo.