following on from my other topic in this forum (appealing a test decision) this is the reason the chap claims to have failed for.
On a very large busy roundabout he was failed for slowing a car down. He claims that the car came from his 3 o clock position, but that the chap take no his test was on the roundabout about a second before the car. It was only due to the length and sluggishness of his artic to accelerate from a stop that the car had to brake.
It’s 19 years since I did my lgv, and I was under the impression that if you were on the roundabout then you had right of way? Am I right or have things changed?
HOpe I have explained things clearly.
alterego:
following on from my other topic in this forum (appealing a test decision) this is the reason the chap claims to have failed for.
On a very large busy roundabout he was failed for slowing a car down. He claims that the car came from his 3 o clock position, but that the chap take no his test was on the roundabout about a second before the car. It was only due to the length and sluggishness of his artic to accelerate from a stop that the car had to brake.
It’s 19 years since I did my lgv, and I was under the impression that if you were on the roundabout then you had right of way? Am I right or have things changed?
HOpe I have explained things clearly.
If the car coming onto the roundabout could be seen before the LGV starts to pull out then the LGV driver should know that cars are faster and their pulling out will inconvenience them
It is not who gets a wheel onto the roundabout first
If the LGV starts to pull out THEN the car came into view that is different because drivers do not have a crystal ball/x-ray vision
To add - if the examiner saw the situation was likely to occur then how come the driver did not
You say he was on about 1 second before the other? If you are still a driver you know full well moving off in an Arctic 1 sec will barely move an inch! When I instruct I always tell them you need a gap of around 4-5secs for the Arctic to get any sort of reasonable motion. As ROG says if the other car is visible then their is little excuse-however if it’s clear as you move and someone comes flying round it then you can’t be held responsible for that. All my opinion of course.
If you’re in an Actros then it can take 4-5 seconds sometimes (literally) for the gearbox to quit faffing about and settle on the right gear to pull away in!
I was taught that it is your responsibility as an HGV driver to be aware of your vehicle’s limitations, and to plan your manoeuvres accordingly. You should not baulk other road users, and the speed of a lorry means you will need to be much cleverer at predicting traffic flow on a roundabout. My instructor was always telling me to ‘look for your blocker’, that is the car coming round some distance away that would stop the car entering the roundabout at my 3 o’clock, giving me enough time to pull out safely.
The only argument appears to be whether the baulked car was visible at the time the candidate pulled away from the junction. The examiner considered that they were, the candidate will obviously contend that they were not (otherwise he would presumably have reacted differently). In truth, it is more likely that the candidate simply didn’t see them, quite possibly because he had so many other things going on that his brain couldn’t handle any more inputs. This is a genuine condition when someone is trying to learn a new skill - we have a finite capacity to take new information on board, and often as we concentrate on the new stuff we are learning, some very basic existing skills fall by the wayside.
The candidate will genuinely believe that he has been treated unfairly, but the official record shows otherwise. Consider the cricketer and the umpire…
“I wasn’t out, you know,” the cricketer says to the umpire. “Look in tomorrow’s paper.” the umpire replies…
This is a genuine condition when someone is trying to learn a new skill - we have a finite capacity to take new information on board, and often as we concentrate on the new stuff we are learning, some very basic existing skills fall by the wayside.
How very true!
My general rule for emerging onto a roundabout is that, if there’s anything at all in view on the roundabout (and not signalling left) or on the approach roads straight ahead or to the right, there wont be time to go, assuming you have come to a halt. Clearly this can be wound back a little in a CAT C, but works well in artic or w+d.
It’s also important to manipulate the gearbox so that it is in an appropriate gear if the opportunity presents itself to enter the roundabout straight away. The problem is the word “auto”. Trucks are not “auto”. They have a manual box with a bag of tricks attached to change gear for you. And they sometimes need some driver input. It’s true that most bin wagons and fire engines are truly auto, but we don’t use those.
The one thing I could never really get my head around with tests vs real world was this idea of “don’t cause a vehicle to slow or stop” and “must make progress” which even the examiner on my class 2 admitted was a very fine line. Must admit, when I did class 2 I was a little hesitant and figured it was better to get a minor for hesitation instead of a serious for slowing someone…just don’t get more than 3 minors for it.
From limited information here, I’d say to them just take it as experience and it’ll probably not come to the same situation again.
Yes, the issue can get confusing and with the proverbial “fine line”. My teaching is very much along the lines of “don’t make anyone slow down, stop or change direction” as this is correct - both for test and the real world. “Progress” is taught by “drive as fast as you can, all the time, legally and safely”. Consider it, it’s bombproof and I’ve used it for 40+ years of teaching.
BTW, sticking to these simple statements will not only pass a test with flying colours but works extremely well in the real world. Folks that I’ve taught myself have no need to change anything to suit normal working conditions. And yes, I do drive like that myself. It’s easy, safe and stress-free. (not to mention, pretty ■■■■ quick!)
