Having got into a few heated debates over the last few days, i thought i may as well start another one
Id like peoples input on the whole publis sector pension situation and examples of how these gold plated retirement plans compare with us muggles employed in the private sector.
Personally, i cant agree with the narrowmindedness of some people, are people so naive to think that in this ever increasing and ageing population we live in that a pension scheme which pays out twice, three times and sometimes even more than that to public sector workers from as young as 55, is a sustainable system for the long term.
We all choose our career paths and as such, make our own provisions for retirement dependant on the income. I`m no tory and never will be but they are merely addressing an issue which should have been looked at decades ago and you have to admire them for having the balls to say enough is enough. This country has always fought for equality so why dont we all retire at the same age and have to all contribute a fair amount into a pension at our own expense.
russjp:
Having got into a few heated debates over the last few days, i thought i may as well start another one
Id like peoples input on the whole publis sector pension situation and examples of how these gold plated retirement plans compare with us muggles employed in the private sector.
Personally, i cant agree with the narrowmindedness of some people, are people so naive to think that in this ever increasing and ageing population we live in that a pension scheme which pays out twice, three times and sometimes even more than that to public sector workers from as young as 55, is a sustainable system for the long term.
We all choose our career paths and as such, make our own provisions for retirement dependant on the income. I`m no tory and never will be but they are merely addressing an issue which should have been looked at decades ago and you have to admire them for having the balls to say enough is enough. This country has always fought for equality so why dont we all retire at the same age and have to all contribute a fair amount into a pension at our own expense.
Obviously never worked in both the private sector and the public sector at shop floor level.The wages in the public sector are generally (a lot) lower than the same job in the private sector pays and the only good point about it is the better pension entitlements.Itâs a bit hypocritical for some overpaid MP Labour or Tory to say that someone earning a lot less and with nowhere near the pension perks that the MP has should have to work until 68 or more and pay in a lot more relative to those earnings to get a lot less.Weâre all in this together.Yeah right.
But itâs often not a case of we all âchooseâ our own career path itâs more a case of having to take whatever job is available just like when I went from earning ÂŁ110 per week in the private sector to ÂŁ80 per week in the public sector in 1980.By the way I told them to stuff the pension and luckily managed to leave after 5 years to work back in the private sector and told them the same thing.
Pensions are rigged to make sure that you die before you ever get back what youâve paid in including interest over the years and the government are just trying to rig it even more so the banks can invest even more money in China.
Carryfast:
Obviously never worked in both the private sector and the public sector at shop floor level.The wages in the public sector are generally (a lot) lower than the same job in the private sector pays
Except that on average those in the public sector earn about ÂŁ2000 per year more than those in the private sector. Private sector workers also work over 20% more hours than those in the private sector which coupled with less holidays and later retirement means they work over 9 years more than in the public sector.
Carryfast:
Obviously never worked in both the private sector and the public sector at shop floor level.The wages in the public sector are generally (a lot) lower than the same job in the private sector pays
Except that on average those in the public sector earn about ÂŁ2000 per year more than those in the private sector. Private sector workers also work over 20% more hours than those in the private sector which coupled with less holidays and later retirement means they work over 9 years more than in the public sector.
I was just going to say the same. Yet again a classic example of Carryfast not having a â â â â â â â clue what heâs talking about.
My answer to the public sector workers moaning about their lot is to go and try getting a better paid/terms job in the private sector if they reckon theyâre so hard done by. Funny how they suddenly go silent after that. Lazy arsed good-for-nothing scum, the lot of them. And like anyone will notice any difference when they go on strike anyway.
Carryfast:
Obviously never worked in both the private sector and the public sector at shop floor level.The wages in the public sector are generally (a lot) lower than the same job in the private sector pays
Except that on average those in the public sector earn about ÂŁ2000 per year more than those in the private sector. Private sector workers also work over 20% more hours than those in the private sector which coupled with less holidays and later retirement means they work over 9 years more than in the public sector.
I was just going to say the same. Yet again a classic example of Carryfast not having a [zb] clue what heâs talking about.
My answer to the public sector workers moaning about their lot is to go and try getting a better paid/terms job in the private sector if they reckon theyâre so hard done by. Funny how they suddenly go silent after that. Lazy arsed good-for-nothing scum, the lot of them. And like anyone will notice any difference when they go on strike anyway.
So now go and tell all that to a cleaner or a nurse or doctor working in the NHS versus one working in a private hospital and if no one will notice if they go on strike anyway then why is everyone so bothered about what they do considering they wonât get paid for the time off or it will be taken out of their holiday entitlement.
But what was all that bs about the so called winter of discontent when Callaghan got kicked out of office if no one even noticed.My answer was just as youâve put there I did get better paid terms in the private sector which is why if theyâve got ay sense in the NHS theyâll just walk away and let the overpaid lazy good for nothing scum MPâs privatise the lot.So just hope that youâre earning good money to pay for some decent health insurance.
Carryfast:
Obviously never worked in both the private sector and the public sector at shop floor level.The wages in the public sector are generally (a lot) lower than the same job in the private sector pays
Except that on average those in the public sector earn about ÂŁ2000 per year more than those in the private sector. Private sector workers also work over 20% more hours than those in the private sector which coupled with less holidays and later retirement means they work over 9 years more than in the public sector.
I was just going to say the same. Yet again a classic example of Carryfast not having a [zb] clue what heâs talking about.
My answer to the public sector workers moaning about their lot is to go and try getting a better paid/terms job in the private sector if they reckon theyâre so hard done by. Funny how they suddenly go silent after that. Lazy arsed good-for-nothing scum, the lot of them. And like anyone will notice any difference when they go on strike anyway.
So now go and tell all that to a cleaner or a nurse or doctor working in the NHS versus one working in a private hospital and if no one will notice if they go on strike anyway then why is everyone so bothered about what they do considering they wonât get paid for the time off or it will be taken out of their holiday entitlement.
But what was all that bs about the so called winter of discontent when Callaghan got kicked out of office if no one even noticed.My answer was just as youâve put there I did get better paid terms in the private sector which is why if theyâve got ay sense in the NHS theyâll just walk away and let the overpaid lazy good for nothing scum MPâs privatise the lot.So just hope that youâre earning good money to pay for some decent health insurance.
LOL are you for real? I guess you know all about this from your days driving council gritters right?
I was listening to a thing on radio4 the other evening, about how councils are trying (and failing) to sell their care homes to raise some money and lower their outgoings. Good idea you might be saying.
They then interviewed a a woman who owns a few private care homes in the north-west, I think. When asked if she would be interested in purchasing any of these homes, the woman said "No, we would never be able to afford the wages that workers in the public sector expect, coupled with their current pension provision, it all adds up to make them very expensive workers.
drew30:
I was listening to a thing on radio4 the other evening, about how councils are trying (and failing) to sell their care homes to raise some money and lower their outgoings. Good idea you might be saying.
They then interviewed a a woman who owns a few private care homes in the north-west, I think. When asked if she would be interested in purchasing any of these homes, the woman said "No, we would never be able to afford the wages that workers in the public sector expect, coupled with their current pension provision, it all adds up to make them very expensive workers.
What she really means is that regardless of what wages she pays she wants a big profit out of a service that should be provided without any profit being made out the job.But itâs ironic how many on here often make the case for the advantages of keeping the socialist idea of a non profit making NHS but then like to support the idea of private care homes,which are just a rip off service thatâs aim is to make as much money out of a service that should be funded in just the same way as the NHS,when it suits them.
Good idea letâs privatise the whole health care system BUT in just the same way donât complain about workers who then decide to set a rate and pension provision entitlement,for the service that they provide,in order to pay for those services without having to lose their house to pay for it.However I wouldânt be surprised if that care home provider wants to employ (exploit) care home employees at just the minimum wage with no pension provision in which case sheâd probably be happy to see them needing to claim benefits in old age to pay for their private care home costs.
In the same interview, the private care home owner said that the majority of her âcustomersâ were paid for by the local authority.
She quoted some figures, which were something like: Cost to keep someone in a decent standard home +/- ÂŁ450 per week.
What the local authority actually pay (which has
been frozen the last 3 years)
+/- ÂŁ320 per week.
So they use the more profitable private âcustomersâ to subsidise the local authority funded ones.
It was my immpression, that the local authorities are now selling off their care homes to the private sector, so that they can keep paying way under the odds, and leave it upto the private person who has sold their house to fund their residential care, to subsidise the local authorityâs financial ineptitude
drew30:
In the same interview, the private care home owner said that the majority of her âcustomersâ were paid for by the local authority.
She quoted some figures, which were something like: Cost to keep someone in a decent standard home +/- ÂŁ450 per week.
What the local authority actually pay (which has
been frozen the last 3 years)
+/- ÂŁ320 per week.
But that problem wonât just go away by cutting pension entitlements and increasing contributions and making people work longer regardless of what sector of the working population it applies to.In fact itâll just make the problem worse because itâll leave people with even less disposable income to spend in the economy therefore less earnings for people to invest for their pension provision and even more people in the future will be left with even less income provision in old age when age related problems force them into retirement and/or care home requirements,assuming they donât just die first.
It also wonât help the situation by replacing a non profit making health service with a cost + profit one which is probably what that local authority figure is based on.At the moment weâve got a dogâs dinner of a mixture of the socialist idea of an NHS system and the capitalist idea of a private profit making private health care service when whatâs needed is either one or the other.
But if itâs going to be the more expensive capitalist idea of cost + profit then we need capitalist type incomes and pension provisions,not communist ones,to pay for it all,and we areânt going to get those by opening the economy up to low wage communist competition.Although the hypocrites in the government and big business donât want to see it that way.They prefer communism when it suits them and capitalism when it doesânt just like is happening in the states and here now.
