PROPOSED changes to LGV training vehicles and licence

PROPOSED changes to LGV training vehicles and licence
6.2 Removing the need for 8 forward gear ratios for category C vehicles used for the large vehicle test

We propose to remove the need for category C test vehicles (large lorries) to have 8-forward gear ratios when used for the driving test. We will instead, allow a vehicle with any number of gear ratios to be used for the test.

Minimum standards for vehicles used for current driving tests, were first set by European driver licensing legislation back in 2000. Manufacturers are phasing out production of the types of vehicles that were commonly used all those years ago and producing instead, safer, more energy efficient vehicles. The minimum standards that are currently set in regulations for driving test vehicles therefore need to change to allow these newer vehicles to be used for driving tests. If the changes were not made, trainers and operators would find it increasingly difficult to find vehicles that met the current statutory criteria for driving test vehicles.

Many of the newer vehicles are equipped with a range of semi-automatic or hybrid transmission systems. This means that it is becoming increasingly difficult and expensive to find a large vehicle that meets the current standard in the 3rd Directive of having 8-forward gear ratios and a fully manual transmission system.

From discussions with trainers and the DSAs own Large Vehicle examiners, we understand that this proposal would have no adverse impact upon road safety and instead may have benefits, as trainers will be providing training in the types of vehicle that the driver will be required to operate once they have passed their driving lorry test. Large vehicle drivers are already required to undertake statutory on-going training every five years to maintain their professionalism and are more heavily regulated than other drivers on the road today. The DSA proposes to amend legislation so that candidates for the large vehicle (lorry) test are no longer restricted to using a vehicle with 8-forward gear ratios. However, if trainers or employers have these vehicles in use, it will be their choice of whether they continue to use them for test. DSA will continue to accept them as test vehicles as long as they remain legally roadworthy.

6.3 Allowing those persons who take a lorry or bus test on an automatic vehicle to gain a manual entitlement for those vehicles, if they already hold a manual entitlement in the following categories: B, B+E, C, C+E, C1, C1+E, D, D+E and D1+E

We are consulting on whether to allow those persons who take a test on an automatic vehicle, to gain a manual driving entitlement to drive that vehicle, if they already hold a manual entitlement in another vehicle category.

We also want to know if you agree that those persons who already hold an automatic large vehicle licence, should also be allowed to drive manual vehicles in those categories, if they already hold a manual licence in another vehicle category.

At present, where a driver holds a car driving licence, and then takes his lorry or bus test on an automatic vehicle, his driving licence will restrict him to only being able to drive large automatic vehicles. This change removes this restriction. In future, if a driver takes their large vehicle test on an automatic vehicle, as long as they already hold a manual entitlement for another vehicle, they will not be restricted to driving large automatic vehicles. So, a driver who had passed a test on a manually operated vehicle (other than motorcycles) would be able to hold a manual driving licence on another vehicle, even if they had taken a test on an automatic vehicle.

We also want to allow this relaxation to current holders of a large vehicle automatic licence, as long as they also hold a manual entitlement in another category (except motorcycles). Their licence would be updated when they exchanged it for any reason - NB large vehicle drivers are required to update their driving licence every five years, so in the main it would be updated at that time. If they wished to exchange the licence earlier it would be their decision and they would be responsible for paying the cost of exchanging the licence at that time.

To get a large vehicle driving licence a driver must first hold a car driving licence. This is known as staged access and is the requirement across all European Member States.

We have identified no direct costs to business. As well as being beneficial to drivers, the change will offer flexibility to driver trainers. Such trainers will have the option of being able to provide an automatic vehicle for tests where the driver has passed an earlier test, in another category, in a manual vehicle. Whilst the take up of this option may not be high — we believe that most driver trainers currently use manual vehicles (as they will have to currently comply with the requirement for 8-forward gear ratios discussed above at Section 3.2), it will not mean there is a cost to business. In future it means that driver trainers can opt to use cheaper, more readily available automatic vehicles.

DSA does not believe that this change would have any effect upon road safety. Large vehicle drivers will have already proved competence in a manual vehicle in a lower category, which may be a slightly smaller lorry or bus (categories C1 and D1). Large vehicle drivers or vocational drivers as they are commonly known are also required to undertake regular, statutory, periodic training to maintain their driving competence and professionalism. This is not a requirement made of either car drivers or motorcycles riders. It is also relevant that manufacturers are phasing out the production of manual vehicles and increasingly producing vehicles that have either a semi-automatic or hybrid transmission system, that are more energy efficient (see section 3.2).

DSA and DVLA propose that when current holders of large vehicle automatic licences, exchange or renew their licence for any reason, they are also given the manual entitlement — subject to them also holding a manual entitlement in another category (can be in either category B, B+E, C, C+E, C1, C1+E, D, D+E, D1+E).

Rog

Do you know if they propose to allow B+E to be done in an auto without restrictions providing the candidate holds a cat B manual .

Steve

Noworries:
Rog

Do you know if they propose to allow B+E to be done in an auto without restrictions providing the candidate holds a cat B manual .

Steve

That would be part of these proposals

NI already has this - B manual passing B+E auto = B+E manual

Rog,
Its still a discussion paper …you have until the 26th August to have your say to the authorities .
I posted about this a while back.

gov.uk/government/uploads/s … -rules.pdf

Im 50/50 over this one… trucks are called large good vehicles for a reason hence there large gearboxes and multiple controls… to suggest 18 year olds with little car experience could learn to drive a rigid with a 5-6 speed gearbox passing a test then working solo in a range change with no training etc would make road safety an increase in my opinion… a new vehicle with a different gearbox requires skill and ment to be mastered… if the dsa are going to make stupid and unsafe changes like this… may I suggest scrapping the reverse exersise for Cat C+E and charging hgv tuition to standard car lesson fee’s.

wilko77fc:
… to suggest 18 year olds with little car experience could learn to drive a rigid with a 5-6 speed gearbox passing a test then working solo in a range change with no training etc would make road safety an increase in my opinion…

The same argument could be said for a driver who passes in a straight 6 splitter then goes on to drive an eaton twin splitter

I thought about this and to me it seems logical to say that a driver who knows how to use a clutch can then adapt that knowledge to other vehicles

Good point ROG… and whilst drivers should be able to adapt their skills using own initiative. it can make them a better driver… but all that bothers me is that when I was in learner mode it took me a good 3 days to master the range change… constant wrong gears etc so for a young driver having no choice to just shut up and get on with it with no idea/experience with the gearbox could comprise road safety thats all :slight_smile:

My feelings are that overall if these changes are approved it will not seriously affect road safety. It may even improve it. Very very few people fail the LGV test through incorrect gearbox use. Far more fail through lack of correct planning, awareness of the situation around them and anticipation of the likely actions of other road users.

It is also more likely nowadays that the person will be driving an automatic vehicle afterwards. If the candidates can use the time spent mastering just 1 type of gearbox on the issues already mentioned I believe their overall driving style will be more polished.

Over the years there have been many changes to the test and they all seem a bit strange at the time. This is just another change and it has been proposed to reflect the type of vehicles most companies are using.

Even if the changes are brought in I would not expect most trainers to rush out and change their trucks. This industry moves slowly.

The vehicles being loaded from Nov 15th is a far bigger hurdle to overcome unless the course length increases which is unlikely due to cost implications but that is a story for another day.

Shame the weight increase is so small , they should have used realistic real world weights
15t artic
8t rigid
1t b+e
Would have been better

Noworries:
Shame the weight increase is so small , they should have used realistic real world weights
15t artic
8t rigid
1t b+e
Would have been better

50% of GTW would have made more sense

Only problem with a percentage is then people will try to buy lighter smaller outfits :frowning:

Noworries:
Only problem with a percentage is then people will try to buy lighter smaller outfits :frowning:

Would not matter as half of possible is still half of possible whatever the size