why when someone ask’s a sensible question on this forum they get shot down in flame’s the op asked for some help and got abused if you are not fit for work then phone in sick nobody should be driving when they are tired tiredness kill’s how many more crossover’s wiping out families or bus load’s do we need we all get tired/sick at some time any self respecting boss will/should accept that if not then he is a ■■■■■■ with a capital T
ask on any forum you will always get the forum police/tossers 
What I was trying to explore was that if YOU the driver felt you were not safe to drive … at the end of the day YOU are the driver, it is YOUR driving licence, AND if you think you might be a risk on the road YOU are morely obliged obliged to say NO,
I don’t need to grow nuts, I have worked the whole of Europe and used every trick in the book to get where I needed to be!! (and, I am not proud of that) it was illegal, END of, but that was 15 years ago, I am disappointed that the industry still have operatives that think it is OK to break the rules
But it seems that there are drivers that think rules are for other drivers I work with a few.
Tim85:
ask on any forum you will always get the forum police/tossersWhat I was trying to explore was that if YOU the driver felt you were not safe to drive … at the end of the day YOU are the driver, it is YOUR driving licence, AND if you think you might be a risk on the road YOU are morely obliged obliged to say NO,
I don’t need to grow nuts, I have worked the whole of Europe and used every trick in the book to get where I needed to be!! (and, I am not proud of that) it was illegal, END of, but that was 15 years ago, I am disappointed that the industry still have operatives that think it is OK to break the rules
But it seems that there are drivers that think rules are for other drivers I work with a few.
Then perhaps that’s the question you should have asked instead of “you have just had a [zb] (rubbish) nights sleep (for whatever reason) you might have even had a couple. What do you do?”.
Having a rubbish nights sleep does not necessarily equate to being “not safe to drive”, though I’ve no doubt some will say it does.
I fight jet lag constantly. I’ve worked a 20 hour last week, then rest then 15 hours and it continues. All different time zones with a changing body clock and no real quality days off. After 21 days you are completely, utterly destroyed. I’m talking wrecked. Nothing I ever did in road transport touched the sides of the fatigue and obliteration I’ve felt doing this yet, it’s legal.
There’s many a job that has fatigue and not being fit for the job mentioned in some rules stashed away. It’s a get out on small sprint. The reality is these jobs rely on a compromise. What one man thinks is fatigue may be to another tiredness. It’s so hard to quantify. I’ve worked “just” tired. But tiredness is different, you can normally function well, especially under duress with adrenaline. But fatigue is different and not appreciated until you get it and then you know the difference! Drivers suffer the equivalent of jet lag if they reverse their body clocks suddenly.
If I refused to work just on being tired they’d never have any people working for them. But there is a limit. The rules don’t help there. It’s down to you to be honest (not looking to get out of work easy).
lolipop:
alix776:
Grow some nuts and get on with the job. If you need a couple of extra rests during the day take them.Just goes to show how “professional” you are,remember your words if or when you have an accident through being tired.
TIREDNESS KILLS
Love this statement Professional! Who’s professional? Do you get a Professional wage to go with the job.
You have believed everything that has been written down regarding the law and road transport. Your only professional when the laws being quoted. Hope your making use of all the professional facility’s up and down the country to help you do your job.
Oh and before I forget remember how professional you are the next time some 16 year old tells you to wait over there for the next 4 hours, as it’s busy and we can’t tip you.
In a word Caffeine.
wired4smoke:
lolipop:
alix776:
Grow some nuts and get on with the job. If you need a couple of extra rests during the day take them.Just goes to show how “professional” you are,remember your words if or when you have an accident through being tired.
TIREDNESS KILLSLove this statement Professional! Who’s professional? Do you get a Professional wage to go with the job.
You have believed everything that has been written down regarding the law and road transport. Your only professional when the laws being quoted. Hope your making use of all the professional facility’s up and down the country to help you do your job.
Oh and before I forget remember how professional you are the next time some 16 year old tells you to wait over there for the next 4 hours, as it’s busy and we can’t tip you.
Would you like to write that in english? you have completely lost me with that post 
The point is people are complaining about drivers driving when possible tired. Then people are making comments that it is not possible to drive and be tired. So in turn someone makes a comment to man up and you will catch up with the sleep.
Tim85 incase your needing some help in the matter of reading and not understanding this and not just trying to be some ignorant type person.
Your only professional when the law suits.
There’s nothing else in this industry that suits this fake persona of this pro driver that is a knight on the road.
There are no facility’s that match this job title.
There is no where in the UK that I have been to that treats me like a professional driver.
There is no transport manager that treats me like a professional.
So why should I act like a professional driver? Oh that’s right the law says I am.
Comman working practise shows me that professional driver I am far from being treated.
Is that in clear enough English for you?
wired4smoke:
The point is people are complaining about drivers driving when possible tired. Then people are making comments that it is not possible to drive and be tired. So in turn someone makes a comment to man up and you will catch up with the sleep.
Tim85 incase your needing some help in the matter of reading and not understanding this and not just trying to be some ignorant type person.
Your only professional when the law suits.
There’s nothing else in this industry that suits this fake persona of this pro driver that is a knight on the road.
There are no facility’s that match this job title.
There is no where in the UK that I have been to that treats me like a professional driver.
There is no transport manager that treats me like a professional.So why should I act like a professional driver? Oh that’s right the law says I am.
Comman working practise shows me that professional driver I am far from being treated.Is that in clear enough English for you?
I think most people on here will agree that acting in a professional manner is a matter of personal pride. It’s not always about how others see you, but about how you see yourself.
alix776:
lolipop:
alix776:
Grow some nuts and get on with the job. If you need a couple of extra rests during the day take them.Just goes to show how “professional” you are,remember your words if or when you have an accident through being tired.
TIREDNESS KILLSWhat a stupid response typical of current health and safety culture. Back in the real world drivers work all the time when their tired. So as I’m not on hgv today and tomorrow I’ve got to be in millan in the morning and yes I’m driving both ways
tell that to this guy m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-corn … ow_twitter
Tim85:
Would you like to write that in english? you have completely lost me with that post
Another grammar ■■■■. His post was easily understandable an no worse than your attempted put down - capital ‘E’ on English, lad, capital at the start of a sentence and a full stop at the end… 
These Billy Bigbollocks types crack me up, it,s like being back at school where the lad that does his schooling properly is labelled as a swot or crawler or whatever, and in the same train of thought, if a driver comes on to discuss driving tired and wanting to do things in a proper and professional way he,s told to man up or grow a pair, I mean …ffs!
Anyway Billy (s) …I ain’t one of your PC guys, in fact I actually wrote a lot of the book of fiddling and 24hr shifts as an owner driver in the 80s, and have driven with matchsticks in my eye sockets on the limiter to avoid missing the ferry home on more occasions than I am happy to admit to, so let’s get that out of the way before you start giving me your macho trucking tales (Jeez even I could be accused of being Billy after those last remarks )
Anyway, just ignore these super truckers, if you are tired mate stay in the bunk for a hour extra, the 9 or 11 hours off is a limit or guide …not a target 
and pull in the services or a lay by for a power nap, it ain’t rocket science, and DON’T allow yourself to be pushed.
But more importantly keep a look out for the stars that boast they only need an hours kip after a 15,…coming across at you via the central reservation.
wired4smoke:
The point is people are complaining about drivers driving when possible tired. Then people are making comments that it is not possible to drive and be tired.
Your only professional when the law suits.
There’s nothing else in this industry that suits this fake persona of this pro driver that is a knight on the road.
There are no facility’s that match this job title.
There is no where in the UK that I have been to that treats me like a professional driver.
There is no transport manager that treats me like a professional.So why should I act like a professional driver? Oh that’s right the law says I am.
Comman working practise shows me that professional driver I am far from being treated.
Do you not think that your reaction to said attitudes will only go a long way to prolonging them
Don’t worry boss, I’ll make sure your load gets there on time. I’m so hard.
Terry T:
Don’t worry boss, I’ll make sure your load gets there on time. I’m so hard.
That would be funny if it wasn’t true to life. We have these guys at our place, the ones that sleep in the yard on a Sunday afternoon so that they can leave at 1 am Monday, rather than leave Sunday pm for extra money and a night out. Knobs the lot of em.
robroy:
Terry T:
Don’t worry boss, I’ll make sure your load gets there on time. I’m so hard.
That would be funny if it wasn’t true to life. We have these guys at our place, the ones that sleep in the yard on a Sunday afternoon so that they can leave at 1 am Monday, rather than leave Sunday pm for extra money and a night out. Knobs the lot of em.
live to work or work to live know which i would prefer and it dont involve going in early on my days off
If I didn’t feel safe for any reason, I wouldn’t push myself to do anything. My life is too valuable to me to put it at risk for a few £.
news.sky.com/story/1328317/lorry … o-cyclists
Lorry Driver Jailed For Killing Two Cyclists
Robert Palmer was “exhausted” and had slept for just a few hours when he killed the two men taking part in a charity bike ride.4:10pm UK, Monday 01 September 2014 Robert Palmer court case
Robert Palmer has been jailed for eight and a half years
Email
A lorry driver who killed two cyclists after he fell asleep at the wheel has been jailed for eight and a half years.
Andrew McMenigall, 47, and Toby Wallace, 36, died almost instantly after they were hit on the A30 in Newquay, Cornwall, on July 2 last year.
The pair were 40 miles into a 960-mile charity bike ride between Land’s End and John O’Groats when they were struck by Robert Palmer’s white Renault lorry.
At an earlier hearing at Truro Crown Court, Palmer, of Bude, pleaded guilty to two charges of causing death by dangerous driving.
He also admitted another charge of dangerous driving in relation to a second crash weeks later on the A30 near Okehampton.
Toby Wallace and Andrew McMenigall who were killed during charity bike ride
Andrew McMenigall, left, and Toby Wallace with his wife Claire
At the time of the crash Palmer - a night delivery driver for Frys Logistics Ltd in Launceston - had had little sleep because he had been working on vehicle maintenance for the firm during the day.
The court heard he had also been using his iPhone to send text messages while doing deliveries for discount store Lidl.
Judge Christopher Harvey Clark QC said: "You completely ignored their presence on the road. In the words of prosecutor Mr Lee you mowed them down.
"It is clear that at the time when this tragic accident occurred you were suffering from extreme fatigue and exhaustion.
“You should not have been driving at all at that time. You failed to ensure that you took sufficient rests. People should not drive when they are feeling very sleepy or, as you were, totally exhausted.”
Palmer was also banned from driving for 10 years and ordered to take an extended driving test.
Mr McMenigall lived in Edinburgh with his wife Anne and their two children, Jennifer, 15, and 12-year-old Lucy.
Robert Palmer court case
The two men were taking part in a charity bike ride when they were killed
Mr Wallace lived with his wife Claire in Philadelphia and had twice rowed for Cambridge in the Boat Race. Both men worked for Aberdeen Asset Management.
Palmer told police he had gone home and slept up until 6.30pm after finishing his shift the day before, but an investigation revealed this was a lie and he had only had a few hours’ sleep.
Prosecutor Philip Lee said Palmer also altered his tachograph to cover up his lack of sleep.
The court heard Palmer was also involved in a second crash on September 20, where he drove into the back of another lorry.
The driver of that vehicle, Brian Rabey, was left with minor injuries after his lorry overturned.
William Sellick, defending, said Palmer was truly sorry for what he had done and had “blighted the lives of two families”.
He said: “He is only too aware of the pain and suffering he has caused and that is something that will remain with him for always.”
alix776:
And yes I am happy doing a 15 hr shift on 3-5 hrs sleep and no I’m would not be over tired am I unsafe rog you’ve no idea what amount of sleep I need also
Wonder if the guy that mowed down the cyclists was also happy to do a 15 with 3hours kip If so it looks like it unfortunately eventually caught up with him.