Hi is it legal to use a private car to get home when you have run out of hours, my boss thinks its a good idea 
mc:
Hi is it legal to use a private car to get home when you have run out of hours, my boss thinks its a good idea
As long as you are within your 15 hours duty time it is ok as it is classed as ‘other work’
OH… and welcome to trucknetuk 
Are you free to dispose of your time as you wish?
If on the way, can you call in at a supermarket for a bit of shopping, or visit Aunt Edna for a cup of tea?
Not that perhaps you might want to but, would such be allowable?
If you are out of driving time but still have duty time left then there isn’t a problem, provided you record the time spent driving the car as ‘other work’ (crossed hammers). If you were a passenger in the car and someone else is driving then you must record the time as ‘available’ (square box).
If you are out of duty time, in other words require a daily rest period then you cannot drive the car home or be driven in it. Travelling to or from an ‘in scope’ vehicle parked other than at the operating centre or drivers house cannot be counted as rest. Doesn’t matter where you go or what you do on the journey.
geebee, I’m going to be mischievous here.
So you’re parked up for the night, or for a weekly rest, and you have a phutt-phutt moped strapped to the rear of the cab, are you saying that you can’t use it to ride ‘into town’ to get a meal and a drink?
Or you run out of ‘working’ hours’ with the Operating Centre 10 or 15 miles away, but your home is less than a mile away. You are saying that you can’t get the missus to pick you up, and deliver you back there the next morning!
Or, for that matter, a neighbour, to pick you up, take you ‘into town’ for a few drinks and a chat, but instead of dropping you off at home, he must deliver you back to your vehicle, where, you have no sleeping kit. A night heater that isn’t working, and possibly, no curtains (as per some of the vehicles I drive). How does that square with Health and Safety, particularly under the heading of Health. Would VOSA prefer that someone be found dead from hypothermia than to have had a restful nights sleep in their own bed and therefore more refreshed to confront the challenges ahead.
Are you able to post an ‘authoritative decision’ relative to your comments?
I am fully aware of the decision of R v Skills Coaches, but that related to drivers being transported at the commencement of their working day. The current question relates to circumstances once the working day has been completed.
And what exactly does ‘in scope’ mean? If I input that into the PNLD database am I likely to get a response?
VOSA (and the DSA) have a tendency to interpret legislation according to their own (perceived) objectives.
I would suggest that any prosecution based on the situations that I have outlined above would be dismissed with costs being ‘awarded against’.
If it even got that far. 
As has already been said It’s classed as other work or POA and to comply with the regulations it would need to be recorded on the chart/printout/card as such.
From (EC) No 561/2006
Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the driver’s
home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the
driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or
break unless the driver is on a ferry or train and has access to a
bunk or couchette.
Or you run out of ‘working’ hours’ with the Operating Centre 10 or 15 miles away, but your home is less than a mile away. You are saying that you can’t get the missus to pick you up, and deliver you back there the next morning!
I believe that you can do that as the Mrs is driving - it would be no different if you ordered a taxi to do the same IMO
If you’re on daily/weekly rest and therefore free to dispose of your time as you wish then it should be OK to travel wherever you want except back to your base of work, if you’re being paid for the travelling time I can’t imagine anyone believing that you’re free to dispose of the time as you wish.
It really boils down to how much choice you have, If your boss is telling you to get a lift home then it’s clearly not classed as rest irrespective of weather or not you’re being paid for the travelling time because you’re not free to dispose of the time as you wish.
If it’s your choice and you’re free to travel when and how you choose both on the home journey and back to the vehicle and your free to choose weather or not to get a lift home then I would have thought you’re simply disposing of your rest time as you wish.
The courts seem to have already decided that if you’re retuning to base then it’s not rest irrespective of who’s decision it was or weather or not you’re being paid.
From here
FAQ.21) If I run out of hours before I reach my normal operating base, how would time spent
driving/being driven back to base count - can it be classed as rest ?
No. In the DfT’s view, as the outward journey from home to places other than
the usual operating base cannot be considered as rest (as found by the
European Court Judgement at FAQ.20), it would be difficult to argue that the
return leg of such a journey could be considered as rest - especially if you’ve
already completed a full day’s work.
The main factor here is the degree of free choice the employer gives you as to when
and how you travel home. In the DfT’s view, you may have little or no choice as to
when and how you make your journey home from a place other than your employer’s
operating centre, if you are not going to miss your next designated driving duties. So
whether you are picked up and returned to base, or you drive the car back to base
after completing your shift, the Department considers that you are not at rest until you
arrive back at base. This view is regardless of whether you are being paid for this
time.
So the posts above are going to throw a spanner in the works for DSS. White van man 
Thanks for the welcome and thanks for all the replys they have all been very helpfull 
Krankee said:
geebee, I’m going to be mischievous here. Goody, I love a game of Devils Advocate
So you’re parked up for the night, or for a weekly rest, and you have a phutt-phutt moped strapped to the rear of the cab, are you saying that you can’t use it to ride ‘into town’ to get a meal and a drink? Not at all, the changes brought about in (EC) 561/2006 would not effect you taking the moped into town to get your meal, drink, shopping etc.
Or you run out of ‘working’ hours’ with the Operating Centre 10 or 15 miles away, but your home is less than a mile away. You are saying that you can’t get the missus to pick you up, and deliver you back there the next morning! I’m not saying it, Council Regulation (EC) 561/2005 Article 9.2 (quoted by Tachograph) says that time spent travelling to or from a vehicle parked other than at the drivers’ usual operating centre or home address cannot be counted as rest. As, in this instance you have used up all of what used to be termed ‘spreadover’ you must therefore take your daily / weekly rest. If you travel back to base / home under these circumstances you committed an offence as you will have insufficient rest.
Or, for that matter, a neighbour, to pick you up, take you ‘into town’ for a few drinks and a chat, but instead of dropping you off at home, he must deliver you back to your vehicle,(yes) where, you have no sleeping kit. A night heater that isn’t working, and possibly, no curtains (as per some of the vehicles I drive). How does that square with Health and Safety, particularly under the heading of Health. Would VOSA prefer that someone be found dead from hypothermia (no, of course not) than to have had a restful nights sleep in their own bed and therefore more refreshed to confront the challenges ahead. OK, this is the more difficult one to answer. Obviously the individual circumstances effect each case differently. There is a ‘discretionary allowance’ built into all actions, However, expect to be answering a lot of questions. The employer will probably be facing questions regarding their planning of routes and why they are expecting drivers to use vehicles with less than adequate levels of equipment.
Are you able to post an ‘authoritative decision’ relative to your comments? Tachograph did it for me, to his post (Article 9.2) you can add Article 9.3 which says; ‘Any time spent by a driver driving a vehicle which falls outside the scope of this Regulation to or from a vehicle which falls within the scope of this Regulation, which is not at the driver’s home or at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based, shall count as other work.’ There have been no High Court or European Court rulings regarding interpretation of items relating to (RC) 561/2006, effectively the legislation is too new.
I am fully aware of the decision of R v Skills Coaches, but that related to drivers being transported at the commencement of their working day. The current question relates to circumstances once the working day has been completed. Articles 9.2 and 9.3 of (EC) 561/2006 ‘plug the gap’ that was left by the Skills ruling, which you’re quite correct only applied to the journey to the vehicle. This ruling only applies to (EEC) 3820/85 although it could be used to support a position regarding how 561/2006 should be interpreted. The wording in both 9.2 and 9.3 is quite specific in that it relates to both outward and return journeys
And what exactly does ‘in scope’ mean? If I input that into the PNLD database am I likely to get a response? Probably not, but I don’t use PNLD so I’m not aware of its’ contents. Basically ‘in scope’ refers to vehicles that because of their construction, use and permitted weight / passenger carrying capacity come under the ‘control’ of EC drivers hours legislation.
VOSA (and the DSA) have a tendency to interpret legislation according to their own (perceived) objectives. Not able to speak for either Agency. However, enforcement agencies have to interpret legislation. If somebody disagrees then they are more than able to challenge the agency view in court. The Court will then apply its’ decision which may be in favour of the Plaintiff or the Defendant and that decision, dependant upon the Court, becomes a ‘Stated Case,’ which is used in the future.
I would suggest that any prosecution based on the situations that I have outlined above would be dismissed with costs being ‘awarded against’. As I’ve already answered, some of the scenarios you gave don’t constitute offences so wouldn’t be the subject of prosecution action anyway. Given that discretion may apply to the example with no night out kit and any decision to prosecute would have to pass ‘the public interest test’ the chances of cases ‘being dismissed with costs’ are somewhat remote.
If it even got that far.
could you ride home on a horse. or roller skate, space hopper … wtd poa ,s dont make me laugh
fuse:
could you ride home on a horse. or roller skate, space hopper … wtd poa ,s dont make me laugh
You can ride your own horse, roller skate or space hopper home. But not if its a company owned space hopper.