OK, heres the issue… I work for a major supermarket firm where we do general store deliveries as well as collections from company owned manufacturing sites) The company has come up with a new system/policy where when you collect from a manufacturing base, the trailers are already pre-sealed using a non-removable security tag. We drivers cannot take these tags off because the number is already recorded internally and checked off at the other end.
So the question is…
a) Whose responsible for the load?
b) Where would we as a driver stand should be get stopped by police/vosa and the load has not been supported and/or is generally trashed and all over the place with loose moving pallets (or what about uneven loading especially on double deck trailers)?
Don’t live in England, but surely if you can’t check the load and it’s security, you shouldn’t drive it. The last job I had here, the truck was loaded overnight. I’d get in at 4 or 5am and while I was doing the walk round I’d open up and check it. More than a few times I’d stay until someone arrived to shift pallets around cos of the way the numpties had loaded it. If it’s not illegal to close a body up before the driver checks it, it should be, even boxes off the dock.
Would imagine DVSA and the police don’t give a rats tail about a private company tag from collection to RDC. That means nothing to them. All they do is quote the letter of the law at you and your responsibilities.
I’m sure if they cracked it open at a weigh bridge and you asked nicely they’d be able to give you a note explaining they opened it. Mm, maybe depends who you get.
Just as I thought, thanks guys. So I guess at end of day the best thing I can do is nip into the office of wherever I pick these manufacturing loads up from and just say ‘I have had to check the load before leaving, would you like to provide me another seal or should I just leave it?’
Mike-C:
Do you use curtainside trailers ?
We hardly have any, mostly fridge trailers, double deckers and (shudder) 50 footers
Yep. The best armoury to keep you right I reckon in the road haulage job is study the regs, know your duties, where the buck stops with you and make it stick - with confidence. Don’t let anything/anyone turn you to blur the lines with their company procedures agender. You’re the “commander” essentially of the truck and it’s load. There’s a whole legal fairground of delights and pain awaiting you in the driving job. You’re the only barrier to making sure it doesn’t arrive at your door.
If it has rigid sides DVSA will be less concerned about load security (as opposed to a curtainsider) and IIRC they have no powers to break the seal so wouldn’t be able to check inside.
As its a major supermarket firm I’d have thought you have a union. Have you voiced your concerns to them? What’s their guidelines on this?
m1cks:
If it has rigid sides DVSA will be less concerned about load security (as opposed to a curtainsider) and IIRC they have no powers to break the seal so wouldn’t be able to check inside.
As its a major supermarket firm I’d have thought you have a union. Have you voiced your concerns to them? What’s their guidelines on this?
Supermarkets have been putting seals on trailers to prevent theft for decades with no issues with load security. In fact there is little or no issue with load security in food distribution in this country as surprise, surprise businesses exist to make profits and there isn’t one if the product they sell is smashed to pieces.
Since the authorities have decided to pretend load security is an issue, in order to justify their existence, it has played into the hands of a significant number of drivers who love nothing more than an opportunity to have a hissy fit about something. There’s even one moron on here that refused to take a wagon because there wasn’t a no smoking sticker in the cab.
If you do decide to listen to the, in my view, very bad advice to break seals if staff in the warehouse or store are on the rob you will end up getting the blame. My advice is put the hi-viz, clipboard and torch away, keep daily checks down to the time it takes the air to build and drive the trailer from the RDC to the store with the minimum amount of fuss for a long, happy and stress free career as a driver for a large supermarket chain.
And to paraphrase obi-wan-kenobi the massive companies that put the food on the nation’s table are not the cowboy operators VOSA are looking for.
Own Account Driver:
If you do decide to listen to the, in my view, very bad advice to break seals if staff in the warehouse or store are on the rob you will end up getting the blame. My advice is put the hi-viz, clipboard and torch away, keep daily checks down to the time it takes the air to build and drive the trailer from the RDC to the store with the minimum amount of fuss for a long, happy and stress free career as a driver for a large supermarket chain.
puballday:
OK, heres the issue… I work for a major supermarket firm where we do general store deliveries as well as collections from company owned manufacturing sites) The company has come up with a new system/policy where when you collect from a manufacturing base, the trailers are already pre-sealed using a non-removable security tag. We drivers cannot take these tags off because the number is already recorded internally and checked off at the other end.
So the question is…
a) Whose responsible for the load?
b) Where would we as a driver stand should be get stopped by police/vosa and the load has not been supported and/or is generally trashed and all over the place with loose moving pallets (or what about uneven loading especially on double deck trailers)?
Would be interested to hear your thoughts on this
the responsibility is with the driver when it is on the road, dont be afraid too go into the office asking them too come break the seal too let you check the load is secured properly. if vosa/police want the trailer opened then you have too open it up otherwise you may be obstructing the officer from doing there duty which is an offence.
puballday:
Just as I thought, thanks guys. So I guess at end of day the best thing I can do is nip into the office of wherever I pick these manufacturing loads up from and just say ‘I have had to check the load before leaving, would you like to provide me another seal or should I just leave it?’
Mike-C:
Do you use curtainside trailers ?
We hardly have any, mostly fridge trailers, double deckers and (shudder) 50 footers
Thats what i do at moment…and there getting ■■■■■■ off with it. But they cannot argue with law.Im responsible for load.
Own Account Driver:
Supermarkets have been putting seals on trailers to prevent theft for decades with no issues with load security. In fact there is little or no issue with load security in food distribution in this country
.
Just quoting that first little bit because, what I would like to add is that the issue of seal’s and driver checks is not routinely an issue when collecting from RDC’s, where the usual routine is to collect the trailer, carry out checks, ensure the load is secure, and THEN seal the trailer at security.
In fact, we seal our own trailers at RDC’s these days with nothing more than spot checks taking place. Even at stores, if the warehouseman seals the trailer before we come back, we just politely ask if we can check the load and then change the seal (something I won’t bother if its a complete tip).
The issue I was having was collecting from manufacturing sites. Although to be fair, most of them simply write the seal, and hand it over to us to put in place as and when we are happy. The time I had a problem was when I went to some other depots further south where everything seemed to be already sealed for you. But speaking to some other drivers today, it seems everyones just ripping them off anyway, applying their own seal, then just putting on paperwork … So think I will just go along with this, at least they can confirm the original seal was in place before, and the seal remover I will put my name to
Only ever been in this situation once, at a small potato farm, guy told me a seal would be put on, I asked him “How can I check the load?” guy says “If it is that important to you, when the guy brings you out your keys, pull the truck off the bay jump in have a gander, then we will seal it”…Excellent!!!
Own Account Driver:
Supermarkets have been putting seals on trailers to prevent theft for decades with no issues with load security. In fact there is little or no issue with load security in food distribution in this country as surprise, surprise businesses exist to make profits and there isn’t one if the product they sell is smashed to pieces.
Really? I used to work for a retailer who would seal trailers before the driver picked the trailer up. The product was loaded onto roll cages and/or pallets. the trailers had a mix of column and under-slung taillifts. One day some cages broke free, shifted, released the back door and spread across the carriage way. Fortunately no one was hurt but the police took an interest in the drivers checks and pretty much from that point on trailers was sealed by the driver AFTER checking that the load was secure as far as could be seen.
Own Account Driver:
If you do decide to listen to the, in my view, very bad advice to break seals if staff in the warehouse or store are on the rob you will end up getting the blame. My advice is put the hi-viz, clipboard and torch away, keep daily checks down to the time it takes the air to build and drive the trailer from the RDC to the store with the minimum amount of fuss for a long, happy and stress free career as a driver for a large supermarket chain.
And to paraphrase obi-wan-kenobi the massive companies that put the food on the nation’s table are not the cowboy operators VOSA are looking for.
I would contend that your own advice is flawed and it is the 3rd party logistics companies that have taken on running the warehousing and transport operations that have added to the problem with their culture of BS (safe systems of work but little pro-active monitoring), more BS (key performance indicators and the fear of losing the governors bonus or the contract to a rival) pile on the stress and pressure then and blame the last person in the chain. That is my experience and any driver who covers his back side is most likely one who has been in the wrong, place at the wrong time.
If your employer is a reputable one it should of trained the loaders on health and safety , I’ve never had an issue on wilkinsons every 3rd row of cages strapped and last row strapped across from top to bottom 3 times
Personally I would want to see the load for security and peace of mind after all load security is part of the “cpc” they cant preach it on the course then not let you do it.
Talking to a John Lewis driver in exeter few weeks back thier Milton Keynes depot have sealed loads he said “its already sealed I get in and drive it here”
Working for K&N here in France, pick up sealed trailers all the time to deliver to other K&N depots. I think if there was a problem with the state of the load at the receiving depot they might have something to say about it. So no, I don’t ask them to break the seal so I can look inside.
As it is work for a major supermarket then it is highly unlikely you are going to see the inside of a checkpoint, lost count of the times I was waved out of a checkpoint because it was overflowing with Asda, Tesco and Sainsbury vehicles. Would raise the point with the Tm and ask him to pass it on to the people loading the trailer to ensure that they secure the load if it is a box van or fridge then there should be restraining bars in it as a matter of course.
When I was doing unaccompanied trailers to and from the ports, they would usualy be sealed, and the firm didnt like the seals being broken before delivery, I once arrived at a premises to find about 10 ton off ADR on the trailer that I knew nothing about, I did have a bit off a moan , as you might imagine. Anyway I spoke to the Union rep who advised me that though I was repsonsible for the load, in the event off any legal proceedings I would have had pretty cast iron mitigating circumstances. Company policy, new customer, no IMO haz labels on the trailer, nothing to forwarn me that this was an ADR load.
If we were doing trailer change from a customers premises back to port for instance or if the customer loaded and sealed the trailer without allowing access to the back of the trailer, then we would write “loaded and sealed by sender” and “said to contain” on the CMR’s, this apparently covered the legal requirements.
Having said all that, I finnished doing that work 10 years ago, so I’m not saying that things may have changed.
peterm:
If it’s not illegal to close a body up before the driver checks it, it should be, even boxes off the dock.
A Driver has no responsibility for what is inside a box, or how it is loaded or secured inside. As a Driver moving a container you are only responsible for the twistlocks, and should never break a seal. If the doors or other parts off the container are badly damaged or if you heard some thing moving inside before leaving the port/container yard, then stop notify someone, and let someone else break the seal
Thats roughly paraphrased from My DCPC instructor, who happen to be a man who has spent his whole working life around Felixstowe. so ought to know a thing or too in that area
, as you might imagine. Anyway I spoke to the Union rep who advised me that though I was repsonsible for the load, in the event off any legal proceedings I would have had pretty cast iron mitigating circumstances. Company policy, new customer, no IMO haz labels on the trailer, nothing to forwarn me that this was an ADR load.