commonrail:
GhostRider17:
some of them get £9 an hourWas talking to driver,the other night…who had worked nights,for the same company,for 13 years.
£8.72 per hour.
Time and a half after 40.
That’s pretty shocking for night work,I’m guessing they keep him as close to 40 hours as they can too!
GhostRider17:
commonrail:
GhostRider17:
some of them get £9 an hourWas talking to driver,the other night…who had worked nights,for the same company,for 13 years.
£8.72 per hour.
Time and a half after 40.That’s pretty shocking for night work,I’m guessing they keep him as close to 40 hours as they can too!
If he does 50 hours it levels out to about 9.50 an hour…unless I’ve worked that out wrong 
Ok it’s crap, but there are a lot working for around that rate in some areas of the country
Are there not rules about “15 minutes lead-in” and “10 minutes lead-out” which one is supposed to manually enter on the card IF driving straight away at start of duty, or driving right to the moment of popping card at end-of duty?
…Another issue is “Insurance”…
If Driver pops card, is instantly booked off at that moment, and then breaks their leg getting down from the cab - Who gets sued? Who’s insured and who’s not? Who automatically loses? Who gets sacked because of a work practice then deemed “unsafe”? Who pays the HSE fine? Who does the firm take it out on? 
This notion of “penny pinching” needs to stop, as serious legal implications are wide-open to abuse here.
…There’s even the aspect of “Guy breaks leg, is in hospital, and gets sacked for having an accident” or even worse - “guy gets no sick pay, exposing contract lie that the firm pays sick pay as per PAYE rules”…
All kinds of reasons why a firm can be entirely shut down… If I were area manager looking to recruit a local manager - I wouldnt let characters like described by OP here anywhere NEAR one of my yards!! 
robroy:
GhostRider17:
commonrail:
GhostRider17:
some of them get £9 an hourWas talking to driver,the other night…who had worked nights,for the same company,for 13 years.
£8.72 per hour.
Time and a half after 40.That’s pretty shocking for night work,I’m guessing they keep him as close to 40 hours as they can too!
If he does 50 hours it levels out to about 9.50 an hour…unless I’ve worked that out wrong
Ok it’s crap, but there are a lot working for around that rate in some areas of the country
I really don’t know how the haulage industry has changed to this,some class 1 drivers are on minimum wage. To me the biggest kick in the nuts is the tax,if you’ve put some serious hours in one week you lose a load in tax. The taxman with his nice 35 hour week doesn’t take into account how many hours you’ve had to put in just to get a half decent wage.
Winseer:
Are there not rules about “15 minutes lead-in” and “10 minutes lead-out” which one is supposed to manually enter on the card IF driving straight away at start of duty, or driving right to the moment of popping card at end-of duty?…Another issue is “Insurance”…
If Driver pops card, is instantly booked off at that moment, and then breaks their leg getting down from the cab - Who gets sued? Who’s insured and who’s not? Who automatically loses? Who gets sacked because of a work practice then deemed “unsafe”? Who pays the HSE fine? Who does the firm take it out on?
This notion of “penny pinching” needs to stop, as serious legal implications are wide-open to abuse here.
…There’s even the aspect of “Guy breaks leg, is in hospital, and gets sacked for having an accident” or even worse - “guy gets no sick pay, exposing contract lie that the firm pays sick pay as per PAYE rules”…
All kinds of reasons why a firm can be entirely shut down… If I were area manager looking to recruit a local manager - I wouldnt let characters like described by OP here anywhere NEAR one of my yards!!
Some really interesting points there mate. I wish there was actual easy to find written evidence to support all of them that are obviously based on common sense. Some drivers I’ve spoken to have said it’s illegal to be paid off the hours from your tacho card,hence the need for time sheets but I can’t find any evidence of this anywhere.
GhostRider17:
I really don’t know how the haulage industry has changed to this.
Oh I do, how long have you got…
The gross reduction in t.s and c.s due to the anti union feeling resulting in it’s virtual eradication in this industry.
Stupid and gullible drivers being successfully conned into accepting inferior t.s and c.s after the point mentioned in example no.1.
Subservient drivers with no fight continuing to put up with and readily accept any old crap dished out to them, …aided by the fact of example no.1.
Transport firms just doing wtf they want with drivers…due to example no.1.
See the pattern emerging? 
GhostRider17:
robroy:
GhostRider17:
commonrail:
Was talking to driver,the other night…who had worked nights,for the same company,for 13 years.£8.72 per hour.
Time and a half after 40.That’s pretty shocking for night work,I’m guessing they keep him as close to 40 hours as they can too!
If he does 50 hours it levels out to about 9.50 an hour…unless I’ve worked that out wrong
Ok it’s crap, but there are a lot working for around that rate in some areas of the countryI really don’t know how the haulage industry has changed to this,some class 1 drivers are on minimum wage. To me the biggest kick in the nuts is the tax,if you’ve put some serious hours in one week you lose a load in tax. The taxman with his nice 35 hour week doesn’t take into account how many hours you’ve had to put in just to get a half decent wage.
I’ve wondered about this issue of “paying tax on minimum wage”, and wonder if Sunak later this year is going to “reform” the system so that only those earning more than 48 hours @ minimum wages - pay that tax, rather than at present where you’d have to have a sweatshop leicester job to “duck under” the threshold of say, £512 earnings per month before this Universal Credit taper-off kicks in with it’s 63% reduction that on top of 20% tax and 12% NICs means you’re effectively working for 5p in the pound once you go beyond this £512 per month earnings figure, which is what? - £124 per week? Even at minimum wages - that amounts to a job that only has 14ish hours per week, not even the “16 hours counting as part time” - Is the next intent having kids as young as 5 driving trucks like they used to sweep chimneys FFS? The mind boggles of how the goverment can let this “Backdoor Slavery” even happen - but there it is, even under a Tory Government with a so-called Right Wing Home Secretary… 
Surely the FAIR way to do it would be to make taxes and “in work deductions” only apply to those hours above say, 35 hours @ minimum wage, or around £1250-£1300 per month income below which nothing gets touched ?
As it stands, firms will aim for limboing below minimum wage net earnings as much as they legally can get away with, which as we’ve seen from the Leicester Sweatshop example recently - gets topped up to the then MAXIMUM extent by “in-work benefits”, making the Government rather than the hapless sweatshop worker the main source of income for that below-NMW worker…
Let’s see who falls out of the tree should In-Work benefits be re-ordered to favour those working long hours for minimum wage, whereas those who are fit & healthy (Eg. “Asylym Seekers”) don’t get any benefits at all if they then work NO hours.
This would also have the side effect of discouraging zero hours contracts, which as we all know - are very unpopular on the Left of politics in particular.
As a prospective employer: You either have a job for someone to do - or you do NOT.
Let’s see an end to this “single run, cancelled at last minute, worker wastes commute cost over and over again, no comeback” culture.
The minimum amount of work for an agency to be able to dish out should be either a single 12 hour shift OR a full working week of at LEAST 40 hours, for which you are paid - 12 hours per day, or 40 hours for that week.
Managers that encourage drivers to “falsify their tachos” - need to be taken out and shot - seriously. 
GhostRider17:
Winseer:
Some really interesting points there mate. I wish there was actual easy to find written evidence to support all of them that are obviously based on common sense. Some drivers I’ve spoken to have said it’s illegal to be paid off the hours from your tacho card,hence the need for time sheets but I can’t find any evidence of this anywhere.
The law is often worded in a very vague and easy-to-misenterpret way as per EU standard practice - so that people in suits don’t get into trouble when they break the rules, but the hapless shop floor worker - gets a ton of bricks dropped on them when they tread on these proverbial cracks in the pavement…
FIrms don’t get fined for Tacho offences for instance. The Operator’s Licence can be revoked if it deemed that “too many drivers are turning in too many infringements”. Even Stobarts have found this out to their cost, not that long ago…
PG9 fines on the other hand - where drivers take out an unroadworthy vehicle because they didn’t do their walkaround checks - no time to do it, before the whip is cracking on that driver to be out of the gate 60 seconds after taking over the vehicle and booking on - are the Driver’s to pay, and the firm to be fined alongside, quite often too.
Amounts and all about PG9 roadside fines here: DVSA roadside checks: fines and financial deposits - GOV.UK
Now as it stands, if an ‘errant’ (more likely to be doing it on purpose, but I’ll be gentle here, in case it IS a one-off ■■■■-up on their part…) manager actually causes a PG9 fine to happen, then they stand the chance of getting away with it personally, and if they DO get away with it - more “deflected offences” will likely follow;
It matters not to such a manager if a driver gets fined, the firm has a vehicle impounded the firm sees it’s insurance premiums rise, some other members of staff get arrested, etc etc.
Because “there isn’t a punishment on bent management practice” then - that very bent practice will continue until doomsday unless it is stopped by reforms, by union acting, or by the firm either cracking down from higher up, or closing down because of legal action against it.
Well after reading all that Winseer it’s obvious to me you’re a way smarter man than I am sir!
I’ve managed to avoid agency work but I understand it does work well for some people. I do have a contract with my current employer. I’m aware I’m not on the best hourly rate for this kind of work but I found that as I enjoyed the work for the firm I work for (aside from shunting) I saw it as a fair trade off providing it was easy enough to earn the money,which has recently gone out of the window since the new manager started.
The problem I have no though is to how far to voice my opinion. This TM is the kind if person I imagine to try and sack me if I get to vocal about being treated unfairly. Fact being I’d be waiting for him to return to his car after my last shift if so but that still wouldn’t pay my bills. Aside from this idiot I was actually enjoying my job and don’t want to lose it,I just wish he’d ■■■■ off
As i said before, just don’t play ball here, don’t do Saturdays because you no longer get paid properly.
Eventually when the jobs arn’t being covered and the shiniest arsed suit upstairs wakes up and wonders why his outfit is going to the dogs, he’ll have to sort the bod out, just sit back and enjoy the view.
GhostRider17:
Well after reading all that Winseer it’s obvious to me you’re a way smarter man than I am sir!
Tbf i don’t doubt his intelligence.
His sanity though… different question.
Juddian:
As i said before, just don’t play ball here, don’t do Saturdays because you no longer get paid properly.Eventually when the jobs arn’t being covered and the shiniest arsed suit upstairs wakes up and wonders why his outfit is going to the dogs, he’ll have to sort the bod out, just sit back and enjoy the view.
I think you do have a good point there. I’m going to tell my boss I no longer want to work more than 60 hours a week,the extra tax I pay after doesn’t make it worthwhile working more than that without any bonuses.
toonsy:
GhostRider17:
Well after reading all that Winseer it’s obvious to me you’re a way smarter man than I am sir!
Tbf i don’t doubt his intelligence.
His sanity though… different question.
Haha,I think we all suffer with sanity in this job.
Are you paid by the minute or to the nearest quarter hour? ie is putting the tacho in at 0804 and taking it out at 1655 going to lose you 1/2hrs pay or 9 minutes? If it was to be 1/2 hr I would be working absolutely to rule, studying the company rule book and making them live by it. I would be washing the windscreen and mirrors every morning, brimming the fuel tank every day regardless of mileage covered during the shift and going to town on my walk around checks - reverse lights need to work on post 2009 vehicles and since some vehicles require the engine to be running that becomes a two man job to carry out safely. Delivery notes checked carefully and paperwork completed in best copperplate handwriting. Delivery note PODs checked carefully for a legible signature. Wash hands every time after each delivery etc.
toonsy:
GhostRider17:
Well after reading all that Winseer it’s obvious to me you’re a way smarter man than I am sir!
Tbf i don’t doubt his intelligence.
His sanity though… different question.
I don’t question his intelligence or his sanity, but there is no doubt that he’s a bit…errr odd. 
Think most people have answered your questions here. Some bod coming in trying to justify his job and save the top corridor a few quid by shafting the drivers. Grab a few of them aside and get their opinions, doesn’t matter how long you been there you can ask them.
As Juddian said, refuse the Saturday, no doubt other blokes will gladly take it up but let them be a mug.
Not much you can do really, talk to the boss and explain that the new bod has come in, and the drivers aren’t happy. See what he says, if he doesn’t give one then walk. I wouldn’t be hanging around with that kind of treatment and not being paid for time I’d worked, especially with a rate that poor.
Good luck, hope it works out for you.
Ps. Shame drivers won’t pay the few quid a month to a union, this kind of pants behaviour would be nipped in the bud I’d have thought
cav551:
Are you paid by the minute or to the nearest quarter hour? ie is putting the tacho in at 0804 and taking it out at 1655 going to lose you 1/2hrs pay or 9 minutes? If it was to be 1/2 hr I would be working absolutely to rule, studying the company rule book and making them live by it. I would be washing the windscreen and mirrors every morning, brimming the fuel tank every day regardless of mileage covered during the shift and going to town on my walk around checks - reverse lights need to work on post 2009 vehicles and since some vehicles require the engine to be running that becomes a two man job to carry out safely. Delivery notes checked carefully and paperwork completed in best copperplate handwriting. Delivery note PODs checked carefully for a legible signature. Wash hands every time after each delivery etc.
The TM sent out a memo stating that it was to the nearest quarter of an hour a few months ago but the last month he’s changed to to be paid by the minute but he didn’t bother to tell anyone,there’s a shocker. He was then wondering why all of the drivers were complaining they were short of money.
I can’t help but feel disheartened though,I’m rarely late,I always look presentable and go to town on most of the points you mentioned above. I’m happy to cover the shunting shifts as noone else wants to and often need to start before the other drivers and leave afterwards. 14/15 hour days are common for me as I’m always doing “favours” towards the end of the day,shame it’s a one way street really.
GhostRider17:
I’m happy to cover the shunting shifts as noone else wants to and often need to start before the other drivers and leave afterwards. 14/15 hour days are common for me as I’m always doing “favours” towards the end of the day,shame it’s a one way street really.
Seems they’ve got your number by the sounds of it mate
Trucking sideways:
Think most people have answered your questions here. Some bod coming in trying to justify his job and save the top corridor a few quid by shafting the drivers. Grab a few of them aside and get their opinions, doesn’t matter how long you been there you can ask them.As Juddian said, refuse the Saturday, no doubt other blokes will gladly take it up but let them be a mug.
Not much you can do really, talk to the boss and explain that the new bod has come in, and the drivers aren’t happy. See what he says, if he doesn’t give one then walk. I wouldn’t be hanging around with that kind of treatment and not being paid for time I’d worked, especially with a rate that poor.
Good luck, hope it works out for you.
Ps. Shame drivers won’t pay the few quid a month to a union, this kind of pants behaviour would be nipped in the bud I’d have thought
Cheers for the input,I think I’m going to ask a couple of the drivers on Wednesday morning when I’m back at work for their opinions. It’s always had the feel of a small family business but now it feels more like an agency. It’s sad really.
Trucking sideways:
GhostRider17:
I’m happy to cover the shunting shifts as noone else wants to and often need to start before the other drivers and leave afterwards. 14/15 hour days are common for me as I’m always doing “favours” towards the end of the day,shame it’s a one way street really.Seems they’ve got your number by the sounds of it mate
Yep,what can I say? I’ve always had a strong work ethic which has always come around to bite me in the arse. Being 40 years old you would have thought I’d have learned by now.
