Poor Harry and other boat owners

OUT OF HOURS BULLY'S TRUCKSTOP BAR (INTERACTIVE)
161

alamcculloch:
When I was doing the sailing instructor bit we had a ski boat that was fuelled by LPG . The lump was a 6 litre Chrysler ,to pull skiers up you nee a lot of power for fast acceleration. When it was out of service the boss hired in a petrol boat and it used so much fuel that it wasn’t economical to run it at all.

A good example of how the intended use of the vessel, determines the engine, and so the fuel. Fast boats need a fast spinning propeller. Due to inertia laws, a fast spinning prop cant be very big, and a smaller prop needs to spin faster to displace the required amount of water. Hence fast revving petrol engines for speed boats and larger cruisers that need to be got on the plane (keep googling Carryfast). So fast boats, favour petrol engines, or LPG to keep the cost down. Slow boats, can do with an economical diesel engine, because their props can be bigger, and therefore don’t need to spin fast.

162

Carryfast:

Franglais:
A boat with character? Suitable for placid lakes and canals?
Punt.
At least it’s summat like that.

A coal fired steam powered punt with character brilliant idea someone should invent it.No road fuel tax to pay either.Also sure that kerosene isn’t subject to road fuel duty either. :wink:

youtube.com/watch?v=iwyHNcPL2RM

You couldn’t have given a beter exampleof how your debating skills are so disjointed. Somebody mentions punts. And canals. You add steam (which wasnt part of the suggestion), and show a video of steam powered launches. Which are a niche enthusiast means of faffing about on the water. The owners of which, will tell you it’s the most unsensible means of powering a craft.

But he, you have never spoken to a steam powered craft owner. So as usual, you wouldn’t know your elbow from your arse…

Keep going Carryfast. I’m enjoying this.

163

alamcculloch:
When I was doing the sailing instructor bit we had a ski boat that was fuelled by LPG . The lump was a 6 litre Chrysler ,to pull skiers up you nee a lot of power for fast acceleration. When it was out of service the boss hired in a petrol boat and it used so much fuel that it wasn’t economical to run it at all.

Check this out. :smiley:

youtube.com/watch?v=tf49i1ezAqU

164

the nodding donkey:

Carryfast:
I’d suggest that if the choice is between white diesel v all the other options white diesel will be at the bottom of many boaters’ list on the same grounds of ‘expediency’.

The LPG option obviously becomes less of a safety hazard and easier to handle in the case of downsizing to outboard level rather than inboard for the average budget motor boater.

youtube.com/watch?v=8rhgBCwmuXU

Leaving the larger offshore motor yachts and their running costs being affordable for the Abramoviches and Branson’s of this world.

Going electric with red diesel fuelled generator charging is probably also a no brainer in the case of river/canal use.Possibly also even going back to the coal fired steam option for some including the charcater that adds to a boat.

You have just shown that you have absolutely no idea what we are talking about. As usual, you take a key word you think you recognise, google it, and like a pitbull, clamp your jaws tight, right or wrong…

The choice of engine is almost entirely down to what it’s supposed to do, and not the preferred choice of fuel. I’ll let you google that, and embarrass yourself.

You obviously don’t understand the difference between inboard and outboard engines, and where, and how, their fuel supply is kept.

As for you suggesting that it would be a good idea to use a diesel generator to create electricity, to run an electric motor, to push the boat…
What do you think is pushing the boat now?

Stick to politics. At least you have a slight upper hand, because we either don’t know, or don’t care what you’re o about.

Why do you think I actually made the bleedin point regarding outboard v inboard IE I actually said it obviously becomes less of an ‘arguable’ hazard.As shown by the video.

As for fuelling,at the price of white diesel it obviously becomes an issue of which fuel if the same job can be done by use of a cheaper fuel.

As for the electric option.Which part of,the diesel,which still ultimately fuels the boat,doesn’t need to be zb white diesel in that case because it’s batteries are charged by a portable stand alone generator which can obviously use red,didn’t you understand.

An upper hand over you isn’t exactly difficult is it.

165

the nodding donkey:

alamcculloch:
When I was doing the sailing instructor bit we had a ski boat that was fuelled by LPG . The lump was a 6 litre Chrysler ,to pull skiers up you nee a lot of power for fast acceleration. When it was out of service the boss hired in a petrol boat and it used so much fuel that it wasn’t economical to run it at all.

A good example of how the intended use of the vessel, determines the engine, and so the fuel. Fast boats need a fast spinning propeller. Due to inertia laws, a fast spinning prop cant be very big, and a smaller prop needs to spin faster to displace the required amount of water. Hence fast revving petrol engines for speed boats and larger cruisers that need to be got on the plane (keep googling Carryfast). So fast boats, favour petrol engines, or LPG to keep the cost down. Slow boats, can do with an economical diesel engine, because their props can be bigger, and therefore don’t need to spin fast.

So you’ve never heard of a gearbox being needed between prop shaft and engine.IE you don’t connect a boat engine directly to the prop.Hence you can have fast diesel or petrol boats it makes no bleedin difference.

powerandmotoryacht.com/maint … ansmission

You do know that with a 6 litre Chrysler,let alone 2,he’s obviously talking about an inboard motor in which case surely it would have blown itself out of water before doing anything useful going by your bs.

As for petrol/diesel engines v planing hulls.Oh wait just like fast diesel or petrol boats I’m sure that petrol MTB’s were semi displacement deep V hulls like their diesel engined German E Boat counterparts and just like numerous types of diesel and petrol motor yachts since.How do you explain that.

Suggest you’re the one that needs the help of google not me.

166

the nodding donkey:

Carryfast:

Franglais:
A boat with character? Suitable for placid lakes and canals?
Punt.
At least it’s summat like that.

A coal fired steam powered punt with character brilliant idea someone should invent it.No road fuel tax to pay either.Also sure that kerosene isn’t subject to road fuel duty either. :wink:

youtube.com/watch?v=iwyHNcPL2RM

You couldn’t have given a beter exampleof how your debating skills are so disjointed. Somebody mentions punts. And canals. You add steam (which wasnt part of the suggestion), and show a video of steam powered launches. Which are a niche enthusiast means of faffing about on the water. The owners of which, will tell you it’s the most unsensible means of powering a craft.

But he, you have never spoken to a steam powered craft owner. So as usual, you wouldn’t know your elbow from your arse…

Keep going Carryfast. I’m enjoying this.

So far I’ve shown that I know that diesel isn’t limited to slow boats and petrol to fast boats.It makes no bleedin difference.

I mentioned steam because the topic obviously has zb all to do with unpowered craft.

Nothing is as unsensible as using white diesel to fuel a boat that can be fuelled with either LPG,or red diesel charged electric,or coal or kerosene all of which not being subject to the equivalent amount of road fuel taxation or any.

167

Come on Carryfast, you should have been able to find an old clip of a steam powered narrow boat (hint, Google ‘president’) bynow, to show how steam power is the way forward…

Come on carryfast. You can do beter than this.

168

the nodding donkey:
Come on Carryfast, you should have been able to find an old clip of a steam powered narrow boat (hint, Google ‘president’) bynow, to show how steam power is the way forward…

Come on carryfast. You can do beter than this.

If we’re going steam powered, why not turbines rather than pistons?
Why coal fuelled.
Steam turbine powered by a small nuclear plant.
No tax on uranium, so clearly the cheap alternative.
Even if you turn off the steam generator the bargees will get a nice warm feeling, an indoor suntan, plus no need for lighting because of the soft, all around glow.

169

the nodding donkey:
Come on Carryfast, you should have been able to find an old clip of a steam powered narrow boat (hint, Google ‘president’) bynow, to show how steam power is the way forward…

Come on carryfast. You can do beter than this.

Which part of,the strictly enforced use of ‘white’ diesel for marine propulsion use,means that ‘all’ bets are off regarding ‘the way forward’,because most boaters,with the exception of the richest elites,will vote with their wallets one way or another,didn’t you understand.

As for steam powered river/canal craft you obviously missed my previous posts showing exactly that.Including a kerosene fired boiler example.I’m guessing not road fuel duty paid kerosene.

170

the maoster:
Dieseldave you have my utmost admiration. You’re sat so close to the red button! I’m not sure that with so much power at my fingertips I wouldn’t act. :smiley:

Hi maoster,

For some people, the big red button might be a temptation; but if I did that on Carryfast, it would deprive the forum of a valuable source of self perpetuating and harmless entertainment. :smiley:

Carryfast is easily beaten on TN because there are a wide variety of people who really know their stuff, whereas Carryfast just seems to like pontificating about subjects he thinks he understands.

:bulb: If Carryfast stuck to posting stuff he actually (truly) understands and able to discuss without introducing random unconnected stuff, he’d probably have quite a different reputation on TN.

171

Franglais:
If we’re going steam powered, why not turbines rather than pistons?
Why coal fuelled.
Steam turbine powered by a small nuclear plant.
No tax on uranium, so clearly the cheap alternative.
Even if you turn off the steam generator the bargees will get a nice warm feeling, an indoor suntan, plus no need for lighting because of the soft, all around glow.

Ironically I guess it’s the global warmist believer fanatics who could only think of such a stupid idea because that’s what they obviously intend to use to power everything else.As opposed to the far simpler option of making a small,compact, far cheaper steam piston motor with a kerosene fired boiler ( personally I’d prefer coal to that stinking muck ).

On that note how much will the whole nuclear project cost,including the fuel assuming it can even be obtained over the counter from the local coal merchant,and how much space is going to be left for people within your lethal micro version of the USS Nimitz used for weekend outings on the upper Thames.

Whatever the real world options there is absolutely no need to be tied to the use of white diesel in most cases if anyone doesn’t want to be.In the case of river or canal use conversion to electric using portable diesel generator charging is the obvious way to go.

172

dieseldave:
:bulb: If Carryfast stuck to posting stuff he actually (truly) understands and able to discuss without introducing random unconnected stuff, he’d probably have quite a different reputation on TN.

I’d be willing to put money on the idea that electric and portable generator charging will probably become the default choice for river/canal boat users at least.Unless the government finds a way of closing the portable generator/red diesel loophole ( doubtful ).Why is that supposedly talking out of ignorance ?.

173

Yes Carryfast, if you google you can find examples of petrol powered slow boats and diesel powered speedboat. But unlike you, I do not rely on google, but actual hands on knowledge.

We have discussed the MTB/E-boot choice of engine already. The germans had a developed diesel engine. The British did not. The E-boot was also nearly 50% longer than the MTB.

And what was the engine of choice of the U-boots?

174

Harry Monk:

Old John:
As I said, Harry, I know very little about narrow boats.
I suppose I thought you could simply burn domestic kerosene to provide heat( although i thought you told us you burned coal in a stove. ) I also imagined that when you were on a long term berth that there woukd be an electrical connection available.
So, not having a go, just talking out of my fundament perhaps.
Old habits die hard!!!

I have a multifuel stove which provides heat in the Winter, but I need to run the engine to provide hot water for dishwashing, showers etc and also to keep the batteries charged, it’s a bit like a truck I suppose, where you can watch TV and keep the interior lights on for so long but eventually you need to start the engine to recharge the batteries.

If you are moored in a marina there is inevitably an electrical hook-up but if you are either out cruising or on a farmer’s field mooring you are off-grid and reliant on your engine for all of your energy supplies. I generally run my engine (a BMC 1.5 diesel) for a couple of hours a day and it uses just under a litre an hour.

I didn’t take your comment as a dig btw so don’t be afraid to ask if there’s anything else I can explain, all boaters love talking about their boats and boating in general. :wink:

Hello Old John, my boat is unusually all diesel, no gas bottles and no wood/coal burner, so everything relies on diesel.

175

The way forward in boat propulsion

canalworld.net/forums/index … dal-power/

I did see a youtube video of someone propelling a narrowboat by cycle power. Looked hard work.

Perhaps time to go back to proper horsepower.

176

albion:
The way forward in boat propulsion

canalworld.net/forums/index … dal-power/

I did see a youtube video of someone propelling a narrowboat by cycle power. Looked hard work.

Perhaps time to go back to proper horsepower.

Send “GoodFriend” a msg?
I’m sure she could find a suitable power source for you.
.
Some of the horses I’ve backed on the Grand National would make good barge horses too!

177

Franglais:
Some of the horses I’ve backed on the Grand National would make good barge horses too!

Some of the ones I’ve backed wouldn’t even make good glue

178

Surely just paying the duty on diesel is a far cheaper way to go forwards, rather than re-engineering the whole boat and the supporting infrastructure?

179

newmercman:
Surely just paying the duty on diesel is a far cheaper way to go forwards, rather than re-engineering the whole boat and the supporting infrastructure?

Yes, unless your carry fast.

But in fairness Harry does have a point, we (I can say that now :wink: ) are being asked to pay full price on diesel used for heating and cooking, no one else is.

180

albion:

newmercman:
Surely just paying the duty on diesel is a far cheaper way to go forwards, rather than re-engineering the whole boat and the supporting infrastructure?

Yes, unless your carry fast.

But in fairness Harry does have a point, we (I can say that now :wink: ) are being asked to pay full price on diesel used for heating and cooking, no one else is.

True enough.
Although I believe Harry pointed out that for years, when the system was based on trusting purchasers to declare how much tax they owed, a few (not Harry and I’m sure you’re honest) took advantage and actually underpaid!
As a debutante you seem to be paying for the sins of those who have gone before. Biblical ain’t it?