Mazzer2:
Interesting article in todays Sunday Times about Saint Greta, basically the people controlling her publicity and funding are linked to Sweden’s main energy companies who will benefit on a huge scale financially from green policies and are using Greta as their public face in order to push their policies and gain government contracts and make several ex members of Sweden’s government very rich so as it would appear that the more cynical amongst were right and she is just being used and manipulated.
I’ve read various articles about her and I’m not comfortable with whatever is going in in the background.
I know she is 16, looks 12 and has aspergers/autism. I wonder why her parents see fit to make her look younger which they undoubtedly do.
And I also wonder why any government takes a blind bit of notice of her.
Shes bunked off school for however many weeks to hold up a placard outside a government building.
They let her in and she said the climates changing and its awful and going to get worse.
Yep, been said before. She has failed to explain how green energy will be financed, how jobs will be impacted and how severely the economy will be impacted. If you want to speak up on a subject, you need to have a big picture view and not just whinge about planes and look smug in your charity shop blouse.
Not anymore you don’t, it’s 2019.
Can’t get a plastic straw in the pub because a 9 year old made a “study” concluding that plastic straws are bad. The result being you get loads of limp wristed types greeting about how the evil capitalists are killing turtles/seals/kittens/nuns and we should all use paper ones instead.
Those unrecyclable paper ones instead of the very easily recycled plastic ones. Those ones.
Mazzer2:
Interesting article in todays Sunday Times about Saint Greta, basically the people controlling her publicity and funding are linked to Sweden’s main energy companies who will benefit on a huge scale financially from green policies and are using Greta as their public face in order to push their policies and gain government contracts and make several ex members of Sweden’s government very rich so as it would appear that the more cynical amongst were right and she is just being used and manipulated.
I’ve read various articles about her and I’m not comfortable with whatever is going in in the background.
I know she is 16, looks 12 and has aspergers/autism. I wonder why her parents see fit to make her look younger which they undoubtedly do.
And I also wonder why any government takes a blind bit of notice of her.
Shes bunked off school for however many weeks to hold up a placard outside a government building.
They let her in and she said the climates changing and its awful and going to get worse.
Yep, been said before. She has failed to explain how green energy will be financed, how jobs will be impacted and how severely the economy will be impacted. If you want to speak up on a subject, you need to have a big picture view and not just whinge about planes and look smug in your charity shop blouse.
Not anymore you don’t, it’s 2019.
Can’t get a plastic straw in the pub because a 9 year old made a “study” concluding that plastic straws are bad. The result being you get loads of limp wristed types greeting about how the evil capitalists are killing turtles/seals/kittens/nuns and we should all use paper ones instead.
Those unrecyclable paper ones instead of the very easily recycled plastic ones. Those ones.
Plastic is nasty stuff no argument.Just like nuclear energy.What do the eco warriors do.They moan about the CO created by coal fired power stations and steel production and transport.Thereby making nuclear power the default option and steel and glass containers less attractive than plastic.Then they want to cut down loads more trees to make paper straws to add to those that they are chucking into power station furnaces.It really doesn’t matter what age these muppets are because they are all zb retards at any age.
How will the lovely Greta feel when she grows up? Will any one be there to care for her, I hope so. Would some one explain why green energy is so much more expensive than the other types. I cycle as far as I drive my car most years The bikes get new tyres and some tlc but the car needs about £40.00 worth of diesel most months. The green energy companies don’t pay for fuel so it follows that their product should be vastly cheaper.
Mazzer2:
Interesting article in todays Sunday Times about Saint Greta, basically the people controlling her publicity and funding are linked to Sweden’s main energy companies who will benefit on a huge scale financially from green policies and are using Greta as their public face in order to push their policies and gain government contracts and make several ex members of Sweden’s government very rich so as it would appear that the more cynical amongst were right and she is just being used and manipulated.
The Sunday Times?
Owned by “News UK”, owned in turn by “News Corp”, executive chairmen Richard Murdoch? That Sunday Times?
That doesnt mean everything they publish has his fingerprints all over it, but it`s owners have fingers in financial pies too.
So I am to assume that you disagree with the main article in this mornings edition which is all about the dangers of a no deal Brexit because “News Corp” can’t be trusted, or can they be trusted when your views chime with the article? The article about Greta Thunberg was written by an independent journalist for the magazine Standpoint and then used by the Sunday Times so it wasn’t commissioned by Murdoch it may well chime with his view but that doesn’t mean it is factually incorrect.
Mazzer2:
Interesting article in todays Sunday Times about Saint Greta, basically the people controlling her publicity and funding are linked to Sweden’s main energy companies who will benefit on a huge scale financially from green policies and are using Greta as their public face in order to push their policies and gain government contracts and make several ex members of Sweden’s government very rich so as it would appear that the more cynical amongst were right and she is just being used and manipulated.
The Sunday Times?
Owned by “News UK”, owned in turn by “News Corp”, executive chairmen Richard Murdoch? That Sunday Times?
That doesnt mean everything they publish has his fingerprints all over it, but it`s owners have fingers in financial pies too.
So I am to assume that you disagree with the main article in this mornings edition which is all about the dangers of a no deal Brexit because “News Corp” can’t be trusted, or can they be trusted when your views chime with the article? The article about Greta Thunberg was written by an independent journalist for the magazine Standpoint and then used by the Sunday Times so it wasn’t commissioned by Murdoch it may well chime with his view but that doesn’t mean it is factually incorrect.
Mazzer2:
Interesting article in todays Sunday Times about Saint Greta, basically the people controlling her publicity and funding are linked to Sweden’s main energy companies who will benefit on a huge scale financially from green policies and are using Greta as their public face in order to push their policies and gain government contracts and make several ex members of Sweden’s government very rich so as it would appear that the more cynical amongst were right and she is just being used and manipulated.
The Sunday Times?
Owned by “News UK”, owned in turn by “News Corp”, executive chairmen Richard Murdoch? That Sunday Times?
That doesnt mean everything they publish has his fingerprints all over it, but it`s owners have fingers in financial pies too.
So I am to assume that you disagree with the main article in this mornings edition which is all about the dangers of a no deal Brexit because “News Corp” can’t be trusted, or can they be trusted when your views chime with the article? The article about Greta Thunberg was written by an independent journalist for the magazine Standpoint and then used by the Sunday Times so it wasn’t commissioned by Murdoch it may well chime with his view but that doesn’t mean it is factually incorrect.
My point was more aimed at the unfettered adoration she has been given and if anyone should dare to criticise her then they are accused of being a bully and picking on a small autistic school girl when it is quite clear from the article that people close to her are being vague about the people promoting her and their interests. As I said scientists have been highlighting global problems for the last 40 years then suddenly up pops someone who has done no research (other than Google) and we are being told she is the ‘Green Messiah’ delving a bit into her background it would appear all is not as it seems and there are some powerful people with vested interests behind her
Mazzer2:
My point was more aimed at the unfettered adoration she has been given and if anyone should dare to criticise her then they are accused of being a bully and picking on a small autistic school girl when it is quite clear from the article that people close to her are being vague about the people promoting her and their interests. As I said scientists have been highlighting global problems for the last 40 years then suddenly up pops someone who has done no research (other than Google) and we are being told she is the ‘Green Messiah’ delving a bit into her background it would appear all is not as it seems and there are some powerful people with vested interests behind her
I think your argument should be with the media in general? Or maybe with us, the public?
As you rightly say there have been articles by learned experts, there have been (almost) indisputable reports, and all have achieved next to nowt.
If it takes a teenager to grab the medias/publics imagination…that is the way it is. I have no idea about Thunberg as a person, but if she is a focus of attention for a good cause, I am fairly relaxed about that.
I don`t want to argue that two wrongs make a right, or that other examples of exploitation justify this case, but what of child actors or pop stars? What of kids with pushy parents who are made into sports stars? What of Malala Mousafzai?
How much revenue does the tax on pleasure craft fuel raise annually and more importantly, how much would it cost the average boat/barge/ship owner?
I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be the difference between owning and operating one or not. The waterways have to be maintained and facilities along the banks will also require funding, a little bit of fuel tax from all that use them is only fair as I see it.
newmercman:
How much revenue does the tax on pleasure craft fuel raise annually and more importantly, how much would it cost the average boat/barge/ship owner?
I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be the difference between owning and operating one or not. The waterways have to be maintained and facilities along the banks will also require funding, a little bit of fuel tax from all that use them is only fair as I see it.
We already pay for a river licence from either, for me, Environment agency on the Thames or the Canal and River Trust for most of the canals. Theres also different licences for the broads, lakes and lochs I believe. Any revenue from duty on diesel will not go on bankside or lock maintenance, it will be thrown into the pot the same as regular car/van/truck fuel duty.
As an aside my boat is petrol so I already pay fuel duty to use it on the river. Doubt very much if that duty goes back to waterside facilities…
newmercman:
How much revenue does the tax on pleasure craft fuel raise annually and more importantly, how much would it cost the average boat/barge/ship owner?
I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be the difference between owning and operating one or not. The waterways have to be maintained and facilities along the banks will also require funding, a little bit of fuel tax from all that use them is only fair as I see it.
We already pay for a river licence from either, for me, Environment agency on the Thames or the Canal and River Trust for most of the canals. Theres also different licences for the broads, lakes and lochs I believe. Any revenue from duty on diesel will not go on bankside or lock maintenance, it will be thrown into the pot the same as regular car/van/truck fuel duty.
As an aside my boat is petrol so I already pay fuel duty to use it on the river. Doubt very much if that duty goes back to waterside facilities…
Both the Avon and the Bridgewater require licenses too.
And every boater is different, I was talking to a couple last week that had left their marina for the first time in 4 years! Seems boats have a static version like caravans.
Harry will be the one to put some numbers on it as he wanders a fair bit.
Will it affect boaters? Depends
There are a fair few people who live aboard and continually cruise because they cant afford a house and marina fees, so they may feel it. As usual, it will disproportionately affect the poor.
as far as rivers and canals go, it will be a drop in the ocean (see what I did there ) fuel is the least of your concerns on rivers and canals, pottering around at 4mph burns very little. As far as the sea going diesels go, when you are using 30 gallons per hour and getting about 30 miles out of that it starts to sting.
Talking to a ■■■■■■■ the Sunseeker stand at the boat show a year or 2 back, she said take the purchase price of your 50 foot motor cruiser, budget on 25% of that per year in running costs to include a marina berth, fuel, water, pump out of black water etc. You can make that 40% if you employ crew. Decent wedge if you have a million quid boat…
Fuzrat:
Any revenue from duty on diesel will not go on bankside or lock maintenance, it will be thrown into the pot the same as regular car/van/truck fuel duty.
As an aside my boat is petrol so I already pay fuel duty to use it on the river. Doubt very much if that duty goes back to waterside facilities…
^ This.Surely electric propulsion conversion and portable diesel generator charging is a no brainer choice for river/canal use.
Fuzrat:
As far as the sea going diesels go, when you are using 30 gallons per hour and getting about 30 miles out of that it starts to sting.
Boat equals Break Out Another Thousand
Or a hole in the water into which lots of money is thrown.
Assuming white diesel that works out at around £25 per hour in fuel tax. Which,based on the equivalent distance,would pay for a return trip to NY on the QM2 for two people,including as much food as they can eat during the crossings.Possibly with around a grand left to use towards the car hire charges from/to NY for a trip to Florida,when you get there,between the outward and return crossings.
I was sure there would be a lot more cost involved than just fuel duty, but my knowledge of things nautical is only slightly greater than my knowledge of quantum physics, so forgive my ignorance.
newmercman:
I was sure there would be a lot more cost involved than just fuel duty, but my knowledge of things nautical is only slightly greater than my knowledge of quantum physics, so forgive my ignorance.
Rchard Feynman: “If anyone says they understand quantum physics, then they don’t”!
Franglais, Richard Feynmsn - read a couple of books on him, fascinating man.
newmercman:
I was sure there would be a lot more cost involved than just fuel duty, but my knowledge of things nautical is only slightly greater than my knowledge of quantum physics, so forgive my ignorance.
If we are talking narrowboats, a friend of mine on a cheap mooring reckons it costs him around 2k p.a., having said that he lives aboard, rarely moves so that excludes fuel costs. I’ve estimated my standing costs to be around 2.5k, comprising of Licenses, Canal AA, maintenance, insurance, moorings.
albion:
Franglais, Richard Feynmsn - read a couple of books on him, fascinating man.
newmercman:
I was sure there would be a lot more cost involved than just fuel duty, but my knowledge of things nautical is only slightly greater than my knowledge of quantum physics, so forgive my ignorance.
If we are talking narrowboats, a friend of mine on a cheap mooring reckons it costs him around 2k p.a., having said that he lives aboard, rarely moves so that excludes fuel costs. I’ve estimated my standing costs to be around 2.5k, comprising of Licenses, Canal AA, maintenance, insurance, moorings.
Harry might say I’ve missed something.
Feynman was an exceptional scientist in a difficult field, but also a rounded, humourous, human being and a brilliant communicator with the public at large.
We have Attenborough stating a good case against materials pollution.
Lacking those characters, the papers/media have found Thunberg for their face of climate change. She has put herself out there of course, but surely many others have too. She is the one in the public’s eye now, and that will probably be a self generating situation.
She isn’t and doesn’t pretend to be a scientist or original thinker, but she is asking (IMHO) all the right questions.
3 weeks off school? Not good, but talking to real politicians and reporters she would have learnt more than a kid taken out for a cheap holiday. Regular Fridays off school too? One day a week, a determined pupil could easily cover that.
Is it so different to you going along with your dad? You’ve said previously that was a good experience for you.
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As an aside my house is on oil fired central heating. I fully expect the tax on that to rise over the coming years. It certainly doesn’t please me to think of that, but I do believe in the principle of “the polluter pays”, so I won’t be sitting holding a placard outside Parliament anytime soon.
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Taxes affect people’s choices and actions. They are a valuable tool to help control environmental damage.
Mazzer2:
My point was more aimed at the unfettered adoration she has been given and if anyone should dare to criticise her then they are accused of being a bully and picking on a small autistic school girl when it is quite clear from the article that people close to her are being vague about the people promoting her and their interests. As I said scientists have been highlighting global problems for the last 40 years then suddenly up pops someone who has done no research (other than Google) and we are being told she is the ‘Green Messiah’ delving a bit into her background it would appear all is not as it seems and there are some powerful people with vested interests behind her
I think your argument should be with the media in general? Or maybe with us, the public?
As you rightly say there have been articles by learned experts, there have been (almost) indisputable reports, and all have achieved next to nowt.
If it takes a teenager to grab the medias/publics imagination…that is the way it is. I have no idea about Thunberg as a person, but if she is a focus of attention for a good cause, I am fairly relaxed about that.
I don`t want to argue that two wrongs make a right, or that other examples of exploitation justify this case, but what of child actors or pop stars? What of kids with pushy parents who are made into sports stars? What of Malala Mousafzai?
The trouble with these people who have politicians kissing their arses and hanging on their every word is that it produces bad knee jerk policies plastic straws being a prime example, the straws were recyclable it was just that the public chose to throw them on the floor, I load straws for McDonalds out of Donzy where the factory has converted to paper straws, the change has added nearly a ton to the load so more diesel burnt to distribute them and then they can’t be recycled, the law of unintended consequences is the only winner here. Ironically would guess that the majority throwing their McDonalds wrappers all over the countryside are from the same generation that is telling the older generations that they are destroying their future, she is no way representative of her generation. Until aviation fuel is taxed along the same lines as other transport fuel then governments cannot be said to be taking the problem seriously, taxing aviation fuel will hit the middle classes and business the hardest two groups politicians will never upset far easier to tax motor fuel which hits the rural citizens hardest but who cares about them when the majority of a countries citizens live in built up areas.
Agree with what you said about Feynman being a rounded human being, he had a real zest for life.
Greta makes me uncomfortable because she does have mental health issues and because of the people behind her.
I read an interview with the skipper of the boat who was very enthusiastic about taking g her, but I noted it was all Greta’s team says this etc. 16 is a funny age. Attenborough has a more complete view, she has a narrow vision, probably because she is 16.
Mazzer2:
My point was more aimed at the unfettered adoration she has been given and if anyone should dare to criticise her then they are accused of being a bully and picking on a small autistic school girl when it is quite clear from the article that people close to her are being vague about the people promoting her and their interests. As I said scientists have been highlighting global problems for the last 40 years then suddenly up pops someone who has done no research (other than Google) and we are being told she is the ‘Green Messiah’ delving a bit into her background it would appear all is not as it seems and there are some powerful people with vested interests behind her
I think your argument should be with the media in general? Or maybe with us, the public?
As you rightly say there have been articles by learned experts, there have been (almost) indisputable reports, and all have achieved next to nowt.
If it takes a teenager to grab the medias/publics imagination…that is the way it is. I have no idea about Thunberg as a person, but if she is a focus of attention for a good cause, I am fairly relaxed about that.
I don`t want to argue that two wrongs make a right, or that other examples of exploitation justify this case, but what of child actors or pop stars? What of kids with pushy parents who are made into sports stars? What of Malala Mousafzai?
The trouble with these people who have politicians kissing their arses and hanging on their every word is that it produces bad knee jerk policies plastic straws being a prime example, the straws were recyclable it was just that the public chose to throw them on the floor, I load straws for McDonalds out of Donzy where the factory has converted to paper straws, the change has added nearly a ton to the load so more diesel burnt to distribute them and then they can’t be recycled, the law of unintended consequences is the only winner here. Ironically would guess that the majority throwing their McDonalds wrappers all over the countryside are from the same generation that is telling the older generations that they are destroying their future, she is no way representative of her generation. Until aviation fuel is taxed along the same lines as other transport fuel then governments cannot be said to be taking the problem seriously, taxing aviation fuel will hit the middle classes and business the hardest two groups politicians will never upset far easier to tax motor fuel which hits the rural citizens hardest but who cares about them when the majority of a countries citizens live in built up areas.
There’s lots of different things in the mix here.
Companies trying to “greenwash” themselves, changing straws but doing more damage.
Are politicians really bowing before Greta Thunberg or merely paying lip service? What actions are they really taking?
Is she feted by the media because she sells ads?
Are political actors in turn using the media?
Surely all the above?
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Green issues are certainly as complex to understand as any, and there are powerful groups with financial interests in spreading misinformation.
If Thunberg is raising the profile of green issues and we all ask more questions, and look closer ),
that has to be good. That she isn’t offering any easy solutions is good too: there aren’t any! We could write her off as a fraud if she were offering a quick fix, be that for herself or anyone else.
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Are any people behind her standing to make some money?
I bloody well hope so!
We live in a capitalist world. If there is no money to be made, very little happens. If any company can make make money from supplying green energy etc, why not?
If we expect all green companies to be somehow ‘puritanical’ We won’t get many will we? We need they to become a viable alternative to old dirty companies.
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Again we are looking not just at what is being said, but how It is being reported. Too much of modern media wants sound bites and tweets. Serious issues cannot be dealt with seriously. They give us (we want?) heroines and villains. No nuance allowed.
Balance is too often interpreted as being giving equal time to different views. Crazy! If thousands of Drs say MMR jabs are safe, and just one says they aren’t, should both views get the same air time?
Look at what is happening here now to see the results of that.
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And to take up Albion’s point about whether Greta is a strong enough individual to be where she is in the public eye?
I have no idea at all.
The press/media of all sorts, sets people up, only to knock them down. I/we wish it were otherwise, but that’s how it is.
Asberger syndrome etc. I have not the least idea if that makes an individual more susceptible or more resilient in any instance.
I imagine her parents had and have her best interests close to them, and will try to do nothing against her interests.
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That’s a 45 gone!
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Edit to add
16 is young it’s true. Only one European country recruits child soldiers…
) fuel is the least of your concerns on rivers and canals, pottering around at 4mph burns very little. As far as the sea going diesels go, when you are using 30 gallons per hour and getting about 30 miles out of that it starts to sting.
