Chas:
English law is based upon what a reasonable person thinks
Did you not get the memo, reasonable people were outlawed in this country in 1997. The Abolition of Common Sense Act 1997
You tend to find that most hgv drivers read the road ahead and manage to allow the emergency vehicles to pass without getting in the way. Most car drivers panic and tend to balls the whole job up. How many times have you seen a queue of traffic move out of the way only to see the final car ■■■■ the job up!
Look at it this way would you get done for not moving at a light if it was red and a blues and twos with light on came up behind you.I think not, and also we as truck drivers have not got much room to move over in the first place
Chas:
Carryfast:
So avoid actually means mount the kerb if you need to but try to avoid it where possible.Which as I said would be the way the fire truck driver would see it.While at the same time saying zb the highway code and the zb who wrote it because that isn’t actually what it says at all.
I’m quite sure that the highway code ‘219. Emergency and Incident Support vehicles’ says “avoid mounting the kerb” & not “do not mount the kerb”. Both myself & the official highway code code agree on this.
I’m coming across as pedantic aren’t I?
Did you know that it is not illegal to mount the kerb? Just like it is not illegal to pass through a red light.
They’d like us to avoid mounting the kerb. I think they’re worried that some of you might plow into a bus queue or something similar, whenever you heard the hee haw of a 2tone siren.
I guess that they’re trying to think on behalf of the stupid !
If you truly are stupid, then please just park up, block the whole road if you have to.
If it’s not illegal to drive on the pavement or through red lights then the law couldn’t nick anyone for doing it.The fact is every type of emergency situation,as described by ROG,is a case of risk for both the emergency vehicle driver and those in the way.As I said it’s always a case of do whatever you need to do for all concerned and the fact is that will often be illegal and contrary to the bs in the highway code.Assuming that someone is trapped in a burning building with very little time they’d better hope that all concerned on route between fire station and incident have my type of view of the bs laws and highway code ‘advice’.Wether or not the fire brigade then get stopped from doing their job by elf and safety when they get there is another matter.
Welcome to great Britain in 2013
bazza123:
I’ve seen quite a few people drive onto pavements to let blue light vehicles through. I assume if you ended up knocking somone over in such circumstances they would throw the [zb] book at you??
The point is . . . that you use common sense & assess the situation. If the pavement is clear then mount it, if the junction is clear & you consider it safe to do so, then pass the bloody red light will ya.
There isn’t a judge in the land who would punish you.
If you were to mount the pavement & squish a few shoppers, how is that using common sense? Likewise, if you were to plow into a live lane at a junction & T bone a family of four when jumping a red light, how is that using common sense?
bazza123:
I’ve seen quite a few people drive onto pavements to let blue light vehicles through. I assume if you ended up knocking somone over in such circumstances they would throw the [zb] book at you??If as Rog and others say there was common sense, these stupid NIP’s wouldn’t be being sent out.
Sadly that’s not the case…
It is possible that a fire or ambulance driver could find themselves facing exactly the same type of issue when driving on the wrong side of the road or through red lights resulting in a collision etc.Hopefully that won’t stop them from continuing to do it. 
Chas:
bazza123:
I’ve seen quite a few people drive onto pavements to let blue light vehicles through. I assume if you ended up knocking somone over in such circumstances they would throw the [zb] book at you??The point is . . . that you use common sense & assess the situation. If the pavement is clear then mount it, if the junction is clear & you consider it safe to do so, then pass the bloody red light will ya.
There isn’t a judge in the land who would punish you.
if you were to plow into a live lane at a junction & T bone a family of four when jumping a red light, how is that using common sense?
Now look at it from the emergency vehicle driver’s point of view.Wrong side of road approaching lights blues and twos at full blast and someone still decides to turn pull out of the junction in front.If they crawl across every junction on the correct side of the road,instead of taking the risks,then sooner or later that will have an effect on the statistics of those waiting for the vehicle to arrive.The same applies regarding those who might be in the way of the vehicle.It’s not a case of ‘common sense’ in those situations it’s one of balancing the risks by all concerned taking chances on route to the incident against those of those waiting for the vehicle to arrive by inevitably slowing up emergency vehicles if no one wants to take those risks.
Carryfast:
If it’s not illegal to drive on the pavement or through red lights then the law couldn’t nick anyone for doing it.
No it isn’t. I’ll put my hands up to admit that I do it regularly. I’m often to be found blocking the whole pavement & driving in pedestrian only zones. It is NOT illegal & it most certainly is not an absolute crime.
There you go, In your world I’m a very naughty boy & should be punished accordingly. You need to find a copper PDQ & show them my admission of guilt, which I won’t deny BTW.
I drive on the pavement & occasionally jump red lights, nick me, bring it on.
Chas:
Carryfast:
If it’s not illegal to drive on the pavement or through red lights then the law couldn’t nick anyone for doing it.No it isn’t. I’ll put my hands up to admit that I do it regularly. I’m often to be found blocking the whole pavement & driving in pedestrian only zones. It is NOT illegal & it most certainly is not an absolute crime.
There you go, In your world I’m a very naughty boy & should be punished accordingly. You need to find a copper PDQ & show them my admission of guilt, which I won’t deny BTW.
I drive on the pavement & occasionally jump red lights, nick me, bring it on.
It all depends on wether you drive a fire engine etc or a truck or a bus and/or you were trying to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle at the time. 
Carryfast:
Now look at it from the emergency vehicle driver’s point of view.Wrong side of road approaching lights blues and twos at full blast and someone still decides to turn pull out of the junction in front.If they crawl across every junction on the correct side of the road,instead of taking the risks,then sooner or later that will have an effect on the statistics of those waiting for the vehicle to arrive.The same applies regarding those who might be in the way of the vehicle.It’s not a case of ‘common sense’ in those situations it’s one of balancing the risks by all concerned taking chances on route to the incident against those of those waiting for the vehicle to arrive by inevitably slowing up emergency vehicles if no one wants to take those risks.
Sorry. My mistake folks.
I forgot to look at the username before engaging in what I thought to be an intelligent debate.
Carryfast is inebriated (pi$$ed) again.
No I wouldn’t run a red light, I got 3 points for running one 3 years ago 1 second after it went red. A mate of mine got do done for exactly what this thread is about & when he contested it they said that they couldn’t find any evidence of an emergency vehicle in the area at the time of the offence, so f’ the consequences, there’s not much chance it’s a member of your family anyway & would any body else be bothered about any one else’s family ■■?
martinviking:
No I wouldn’t run a red light, I got 3 points for running one 3 years ago 1 second after it went red. A mate of mine got do done for exactly what this thread is about & when he contested it they said that they couldn’t find any evidence of an emergency vehicle in the area at the time of the offence, so f’ the consequences, there’s not much chance it’s a member of your family anyway & would any body else be bothered about any one else’s family ■■?
Would it bother you that the rest of humanity thinks you’re a selfish, heartless, neolithic knuckledragger.
Chas:
martinviking:
No I wouldn’t run a red light, I got 3 points for running one 3 years ago 1 second after it went red. A mate of mine got do done for exactly what this thread is about & when he contested it they said that they couldn’t find any evidence of an emergency vehicle in the area at the time of the offence, so f’ the consequences, there’s not much chance it’s a member of your family anyway & would any body else be bothered about any one else’s family ■■?Would it bother you that the rest of humanity thinks you’re a selfish, heartless, neolithic knuckledragger.
It wouldn’t bother me. I have the same mindset.
Would it bother you that I think you are a pompous ■■■
ROG:
For the NO pollsters would it be fair for me to say that they are putting the possibility of getting a FPN issued (not enforced) over that of using common sense ?
Yes as we need our liscenses to support our familys.god help your students who actually listen to your advice.they will be scared to leave the cab and have 12 points
I’m afraid that whilst people are being convicted of these offences due to our crazy crminal justice system, it makes sense to look after yourself.
Yes it’s selfish, and yes if it was me or my family I would want them there ASAP, but as things stand I wouldn’t deliberately hold them up, but I wouldn’t break the law for them either.
nearly there:
ROG:
For the NO pollsters would it be fair for me to say that they are putting the possibility of getting a FPN issued (not enforced) over that of using common sense ?Yes as we need our liscenses to support our familys.god help your students who actually listen to your advice.they will be scared to leave the cab and have 12 points
The problem is that no one can be sure that it wont be enforced, when you’re looking up at that bloody camera your common sense goes out of the window and self preservation kicks in. Its a poor state of affairs that we’ve been reduced to that but we have and thats all there is to it. We’re now a nation paranoid about being watched and prosecuted for trivial nothings because we’ve seen it happen time and time again either to ourselves or the people around us. Its quite possible for someone to leave home in their car at 9am and 30 minutes later go past 4 different camereas within a few miles of one another doing 3 or 4 mph over the limit and then lose their licence, their livelyhood and effectively their whole life as they know it. I’m sure most people would eagerly move out of the way, I know I’d certainly want to and feel obliged to do so, but I’m not risking my licence and my job to do so. I cant be sure I wont get a NIP and I cant be sure that if I did and went to court that they’d do the right thing and not claim they cannot find any evidence of my story of events and prosecute me any way. Several people on here have already said its happened to themselves or people they know and thats enough for me. The fear of prosecution here outweighs anything else and its that fear thats been drummed in to people by a decade or more of this hideous camera riddled bureaucracy. You cant indoctinate people for 10 years in to behaving like robots, never going through a light on amber, never going more than 1mph over the limit and then suddenly expect them to revert to common sense when it suits. Bottom line is, people see camara and panic about the consequences.
As it is my understanding that drivers of emergency vehicles are trained as to progress through red lights in these situations , I would move over but not jump a red light . Nothing to do with being selfish , just recognising that drivers of emergency vehicles are in theory highly skilled drivers and do not expect you as a driver to break the law . Unless the vehicle concerned was travelling at an exceptionally high speed , you should already have observed it and dropped back to leave a space for it to drive through the lights safely . Sadly not all drivers are so observant , Did this recently at a set of traffic lights where three lanes of traffic were turning right and the driver of another vehicle took the gap which I had left for the ambulance . Will always be a no for me unless the highway code is amended .
Hi fat boy I was girdwood park '94 EOD Great time. No training on blue light before arriving. Lots by the I leave 6 months later!!!
limeyphil:
switchlogic:
No I wouldn’t. I’ve known at least two people from when I was working in London who got points and the ambulance in one case and fire engine in another was no defence for them. Am I right in remembering only the police can break traffic laws and in theory ambulances and fire engines could in theory be done themselves for going through a red? Obviously they never are.Actually they can’t. The only vehicle that can legally run a red light is a Royal mail vehicle.
Just a bit of useless crap i discovered some years back on who wants to be a millionaire.
Must have been red nose night then. 
Anyone can “legally run a red light” if it would be a danger to other road users NOT to. Its a judgement call - nothing more.