Police helicopter crash

I m not here to get into any arguments as I said I would try to answer any questions.

You stated that the rotors weren’t turning in your post above.

I cannot say either way that they were or weren’t but would say when it went though the roof they probably weren’t turning or were at slow speed due to the lack of damage to two of the blades.

Regarding the slowing when you raise flare and raise the collective to cushion the landing the angle of attack increases, this causes an increase in drag and if the engines are not driving the rotors they will slow down. Indeed I’ve seen pilots use the collective to slow rotors down quickly instead of letting them slow to the rpm that the rotor brake can be used.

I am not an instructor and trying to answer in a way that I hope people will understand and not complicate things further.

Also I have no inside information as to what did or didn’t happen on that flight - just what is reported in the news and in the photos I’ve seen. And as we all know the press isn’t always the most accurate source if information.

W.

PilotWolf:
I m not here to get into any arguments as I said I would try to answer any questions.

You stated that the rotors weren’t turning in your post above.

I cannot say either way that they were or weren’t but would say when it went though the roof they probably weren’t turning or were at slow speed due to the lack of damage to two of the blades.

Regarding the slowing when you raise flare and raise the collective to cushion the landing the angle of attack increases, this causes an increase in drag and if the engines are not driving the rotors they will slow down. Indeed I’ve seen pilots use the collective to slow rotors down quickly instead of letting them slow to the rpm that the rotor brake can be used.

I am not an instructor and trying to answer in a way that I hope people will understand and not complicate things further.

Also I have no inside information as to what did or didn’t happen on that flight - just what is reported in the news and in the photos I’ve seen. And as we all know the press isn’t always the most accurate source if information.

W.

You are no more a heli pilot than I am. But at least I understand what makes a heli fly.

Go away, read some more. Perhaps come back in a few years time.

If you drop a helicoptor 700ft without any control, I very much doubt it will be as intact as it was.

@Chas - Sorry you seem to want to fight.

You can believe what you like but I assure you I am a commercially rated FAA helicopter pilot and have been for over 12 years.

If any of the mods wish to pm me I will happily provide confirmation of my qualifications.

PW

PilotWolf:
@Chas - Sorry you seem to want to fight.

You can believe what you like but I assure you I am a commercially rated FAA helicopter pilot and have been for over 12 years.

If any of the mods wish to pm me I will happily provide confirmation of my qualifications.

PW

Why can’t I PM you & you provide me with evidence?

Chas:

PilotWolf:
I m not here to get into any arguments as I said I would try to answer any questions.

You stated that the rotors weren’t turning in your post above.

I cannot say either way that they were or weren’t but would say when it went though the roof they probably weren’t turning or were at slow speed due to the lack of damage to two of the blades.

Regarding the slowing when you raise flare and raise the collective to cushion the landing the angle of attack increases, this causes an increase in drag and if the engines are not driving the rotors they will slow down. Indeed I’ve seen pilots use the collective to slow rotors down quickly instead of letting them slow to the rpm that the rotor brake can be used.

I am not an instructor and trying to answer in a way that I hope people will understand and not complicate things further.

Also I have no inside information as to what did or didn’t happen on that flight - just what is reported in the news and in the photos I’ve seen. And as we all know the press isn’t always the most accurate source if information.

W.

You are no more a heli pilot than I was a ‘Captain of Industry’. But at least I understand what makes a heli fly.

Go away, read some more. Perhaps come back in a few years time.

Fixed that for you Chas

muckles:
If you drop a helicoptor 700ft without any control, I very much doubt it will be as intact as it was.

I’ve been waiting for this very question.

On the basis that it dropped like a brick, then it doesn’t really matter whether it was 100ft or 1000ft, it would’ve landed with exactly the same force.

It’s called ‘terminal velocity’. Look it up.

switchlogic:
Fixed that for you Chas

Lame, even by your standards.

Chas:

PilotWolf:
@Chas - Sorry you seem to want to fight.

You can believe what you like but I assure you I am a commercially rated FAA helicopter pilot and have been for over 12 years.

If any of the mods wish to pm me I will happily provide confirmation of my qualifications.

PW

Why can’t I PM you & you provide me with evidence?

Because I have no idea who you are. Would you send me a copy if your driving licence?

As I said you seem to just want to argue for the sake of it for some reason.

PW

Chas:

switchlogic:
Fixed that for you Chas

Lame, even by your standards.

Well I wouldn’t want to disappoint. I’ll now cry myself to sleep knowing the man who put computers and the Internet into every house called my comment lame. Poor me

switchlogic:
Well I wouldn’t want to disappoint. I’ll now cry myself to sleep knowing the man who put computers and the Internet into every house called my comment lame. Poor me

Lame, even by your now defined ‘low’ standards.

PilotWolf:
I m not here to get into any arguments as I said I would try to answer any questions.

I asked some questions previously concerning hover time limits being stated as the same as those which apply to the max rated take off power time limit.We know from witnesses how long it was hovering for.Where can we get the max rated take off power time limit,and therefore the hover time limit for the type in question,from.Assuming that the idea of a connection between hover and take off power durability is correct.As you’d obviously know and be able to tell us one way or another. :bulb:

PilotWolf:
Because I have no idea who you are. Would you send me a copy if your driving licence?

As I said you seem to just want to argue for the sake of it for some reason.

PW

BTW, you seem to be active at the very same time as all of the troll posts on here.

It might just be a coincidence, but you all seem to share the same bad grammar as well !

Chas:

PilotWolf:
Because I have no idea who you are. Would you send me a copy if your driving licence?

As I said you seem to just want to argue for the sake of it for some reason.

PW

BTW, you seem to be active at the very same time as all of the troll posts on here.

It might just be a coincidence, but you all seem to share the same bad grammar as well !

#Paranoid

switchlogic:
#Paranoid

You trolling on twitter as well?

Shame on you, why don’t you try something original. Just for a change.

Chas where do you teach your csi methods.you seem to be the all knowing on this subject.where did you gain your info,discovey channel or airwolf.early reports said the engine was misfiring before coming down

Chas:

PilotWolf:
Because I have no idea who you are. Would you send me a copy if your driving licence?

As I said you seem to just want to argue for the sake of it for some reason.

PW

BTW, you seem to be active at the very same time as all of the troll posts on here.

It might just be a coincidence, but you all seem to share the same bad grammar as well !

I rise to the bait once more. I am active on here and the internet when I get home from work, sometimes in the morning and sometimes at work. Given the 8 hour time difference that might not coincide with your idea of ‘normal’ times to post.

Grammar police too?! Yeah, I only got O level English at a B, but it was 28 years ago.

Carryfast:

PilotWolf:
I m not here to get into any arguments as I said I would try to answer any questions.

I asked some questions previously concerning hover time limits being stated as the same as those which apply to the max rated take off power time limit.We know from witnesses how long it was hovering for.Where can we get the max rated take off power time limit,and therefore the hover time limit for the type in question,from.Assuming that the idea of a connection between hover and take off power durability is correct.As you’d obviously know and be able to tell us one way or another. :bulb:

In simple terms power on turbine helicopters is measured as torque, on a piston engined helicopter it is measured as Manifold Absolute Pressure and usually quoted as a %.

As an example the Jetranger has a maximum of 420 SHP, the maximum take off rating is 317 SHP or 100%, the continuous [cruise] power is 270SHP and 85%. The limit is 5 minutes at 100% in the Jetranger and wouldn’t be used other than for take off or unforeseen occurrences. You certainly wouldn’t want to hover at 100%.

Some turbine types do have hovering time limits placed on them by the specification of the main rotor gearbox but usually the it is going to be engine limits and [oil] temperature issues due to the high power setting needed to hover especially out of ground effect (usually assumed to be more than 1/2 a rotor diameter above the surface). The amount of power needed to hover depends on factors such as the air temperature, gross weight, humidity and wind strength and direction.

All the figures relevant to each type are listed in great detail in the Pilot Operating Handbook along with charts to workout things like hover performance at different combinations of weights, temperature and density altitudes.

Exceeding limits gets very expensive proportionally to the amount of time the limit was exceeded. Often stripping down gearboxes and engines to check tolerances and for damage.

PW.

I wouldn’t let Chas get to you PilotWolf, he’s just a bit paranoid and thinks every post ever made that disagrees with him on here is made by me using various usernames. I think it makes him feel better to imagine this and not that lots of people on here think he’s a plonker.

PilotWolf:
Some turbine types do have hovering time limits placed on them by the specification of the main rotor gearbox but usually the it is going to be engine limits and [oil] temperature issues due to the high power setting needed to hover

Exceeding limits gets very expensive proportionally to the amount of time the limit was exceeded. Often stripping down gearboxes and engines to check tolerances and for damage.

PW.

Thanks for that PW.I think that’s the interesting part.It would be interesting to find out what the potential limitations of the type in question might be against the witness statements of 1 hour or so hovering time.

I’ve often seen the Lancashire Police helicopter hovering in one position for in excess of 15 minutes. Its the same type, a Eurocopter EC135 T2

http://www.eurocopter.com/site/en/ref/Characteristics_87.html