Quick question, is it legal for a tachograph to default to POA (rather than Other Work) whenever the ignition is turned off?
Harry Monk:
Quick question, is it legal for a tachograph to default to POA (rather than Other Work) whenever the ignition is turned off?
Quick answer.
Several posts about them defaulting to rest, and never a mention of illegality.
Franglais:
Harry Monk:
Quick question, is it legal for a tachograph to default to POA (rather than Other Work) whenever the ignition is turned off?Quick answer.
Several posts about them defaulting to rest, and never a mention of illegality.
I got a telling off from the VOSA once in the days of analogue tachographs because I kept my mode switch on rest and he said it had to be kept on “other work” unless “rest” was selected so I wondered if it was still the same?
Harry Monk:
Quick question, is it legal for a tachograph to default to POA (rather than Other Work) whenever the ignition is turned off?
Well the tachograph can be set to change to POA when the ignition is switched off but given that you’re supposed to know how long you’ll be waiting I don’t see how it’s a good idea.
When the ignition is switched off you have 5 seconds to change the activity, so I would say it’s legal but a dumb idea.
Harry Monk:
Franglais:
Harry Monk:
Quick question, is it legal for a tachograph to default to POA (rather than Other Work) whenever the ignition is turned off?Quick answer.
Several posts about them defaulting to rest, and never a mention of illegality.I got a telling off from the VOSA once in the days of analogue tachographs because I kept my mode switch on rest and he said it had to be kept on “other work” unless “rest” was selected so I wondered if it was still the same?
You weren’t alone in that.
Quote: “Unusual job driver: you drive and rest but never load, or unload”.
.
And I agree with Tacho , legal or not, it doesn’t seem sensible.
I’m going to qualify what I said earlier, I said it would be a dumb idea to have a tachograph default to POA, I should say I’ve never come across a job where it would be appropriate but there may well be plenty of jobs where defaulting to POA would be appropriate.
On the face of things it doesn’t seem like a good idea but I suppose there could be some circumstances where it would be appropriate … who knows 
I came across it for the first time this week and was told it was so drivers don’t have to take a WTD break after six hours on duty. Needless to say I won’t be going back there.
Harry Monk:
I came across it for the first time this week and was told it was so drivers don’t have to take a WTD break after six hours on duty. Needless to say I won’t be going back there.
Go back there? Obey the law And correctly select duty every time, and record their reaction when you tell them you need a break.
No need to drive again, become a blackmailed! -
tachograph:
I’m going to qualify what I said earlier, I said it would be a dumb idea to have a tachograph default to POA, I should say I’ve never come across a job where it would be appropriate but there may well be plenty of jobs where defaulting to POA would be appropriate.On the face of things it doesn’t seem like a good idea but I suppose there could be some circumstances where it would be appropriate … who knows
POA in current practice is really just another break mode, stored separately only for employers who want to distinguish between break which the worker wants (or has) to take, and forced waiting time.
I could imagine types of work where it is reasonable to assume that the only time the engine is off is on break - bin wagons, for example - but they are a specialist minority of jobs, not typical haulage, at least not in the UK.
It’s possible when the machines were designed, they thought it important (perhaps for future flexibility) to be able to record a case where the worker was neither working nor taking a rest break, especially as the law could be formulated so that there were additional requirements for rest breaks (such as that facilities were available during the break, like a canteen or toilets, which it can’t always be assumed are available at every site or waiting place), but in practice no distinction is made.
It’s possible also that they imagined making a distinction between bed-rest (i.e. daily rest or thoroughly off duty), and work breaks (which would have been recorded as what we call POA, since the worker is in practice usually still available at work whilst on a work break), but again that is not how the tachos are currently used for any enforcement purpose.
Baginton firm Harry?
I can’t help but be suspicious of companies that insist on drivers using POA at every opportunity.
POA for me has no place in single manned operations & has always been utilised by operators as a fiddle to get around the Working Time Directive. I have never understood why it doesn’t count towards your weekly WTD duty time. If your not having a mandatory break and are ‘available to work’ then you are on duty, surely?
I’ve had one default to POA when the ignition is switched on, which isn’t a good thing when your on break and switch on the ignition switch to see the display of how many minutes you have left of a break. I received an infringement in the past because of this, but the tacho was hooked up to the laptop & changed to default to a different mode when it went in for service due to the number of drivers getting infringements
I would be inclined to do a print out and a copy every day, writing on the back of each relevant one either that POA had never been selected or that the only true POA was between X&Y with the rest being automatic default settings interrupting other work and specifically breaks between A&B, C&D, E&F etc. Note the actual finish time on the print out after this this explanation and do a manual entry the next day altering the finish time. Keep one, hand one in. The company will probably get bored before you do. Declaring POA while actually on other work would be just as much a falsification of records as working during a break period.
rob22888:
I can’t help but be suspicious of companies that insist on drivers using POA at every opportunity.POA for me has no place in single manned operations & has always been utilised by operators as a fiddle to get around the Working Time Directive. I have never understood why it doesn’t count towards your weekly WTD duty time. If your not having a mandatory break and are ‘available to work’ then you are on duty, surely?
Totally agree with you my company , that I won’t name keep asking why I’m not using poa to get my hrs down . My answer is it’s a tool to make you work me longer than I want . End of story . I will not use it , there has to be certain criteria for you to be able to use it .