Can any one give me an answer with regard to POA and working breaks.
Example:
0600-0700 other work
0700-0900 driving
0900-1100 poa
1100-1200 other work
1200-1215 break +++++
1215-1415 driving
1415-1445 break
1445-1645 other work
Is this legal or do i not count the poa, then this would be a valid WTD break ++++ .
cyman:
Can any one give me an answer with regard to POA and working breaks.
Example:
0600-0700 other work
0700-0900 driving
0900-1100 poa
1100-1200 other work
1200-1215 break +++++
1215-1415 driving
1415-1445 break
1445-1645 other work
Is this legal or do i not count the poa, then this would be a valid WTD break ++++ .
LEGAL 
4 hours of combined other work & driving followed by a 15 min break
4 hours of driving followed by a 30 min break - driving & WTD now resets
cyman:
Can any one give me an answer with regard to POA and working breaks.
Example:
0600-0700 other work
0700-0900 driving
0900-1100 poa
1100-1200 other work
1200-1215 break +++++
1215-1415 driving
1415-1445 break
1445-1645 other work
Is this legal or do i not count the poa, then this would be a valid WTD break ++++ .
As ROG said it is legal
As a matter of fact it would still have been legal if you hadn’t had the 15 minute break, in fact because of the POA and the fact that you didn’t do 4.5 hours driving you could have had a 30 minute break at any time after the end of the POA at 11:00 as long as it wasn’t at the end of the shift, this would have met the requirement for a 30 minute break and ensured that you didn’t work for more than 6 consecutive hours without a break 
From 06:00 to 16:45 is 10.75 hours, but less 2 hours POA only leaves 8.75 hours working time, so you would need to have at least 30 minutes break before the end of the shift.
You should not work more than 6 consecutive hours before having a break of at least 15 minutes.
The 30 minute break at 14:15 takes everything into account and leaves you legal
Hope I got the maths right this time 
tachograph:
As ROG said it is legalAs a matter of fact it would still have been legal if you hadn’t had the 15 minute break, in fact because of the POA and the fact that you didn’t do 4.5 hours driving you could have had a 30 minute break at any time after the end of the POA at 11:00 as long as it wasn’t at the end of the shift, this would have met the requirement for a 30 minute break and ensured that you didn’t work for more than 6 consecutive hours without a break
From 06:00 to 16:45 is 10.75 hours, but less 2 hours POA only leaves 8.75 hours working time, so you would need to have at least 30 minutes break before the end of the shift.
You should not work more than 6 consecutive hours before having a break of at least 15 minutes.
The 30 minute break at 14:15 takes everything into account and leaves you legal
Hope I got the maths right this time
cyman:
Can any one give me an answer with regard to POA and working breaks.
Example:
0600-0700 other work
0700-0900 driving
0900-1100 poa
1100-1200 other work
1200-1215 break +++++
1215-1415 driving
1415-1445 break - remove this break and finish 30 mins earlier at 1615
1445-1645 other work
Is this legal or do i not count the poa, then this would be a valid WTD break ++++ .
4 hours - 15 break - 4 hours - finish
as only 4 is driving - thats ok
I think WTD is still ok because the 9 hours has not been reached to warrant another break 
ROG:
cyman:
Can any one give me an answer with regard to POA and working breaks.
Example:
0600-0700 other work
0700-0900 driving
0900-1100 poa
1100-1200 other work
1200-1215 break +++++
1215-1415 driving
1415-1445 break - remove this break and finish 30 mins earlier at 1615
1445-1645 other work
Is this legal or do i not count the poa, then this would be a valid WTD break ++++ .4 hours - 15 break - 4 hours - finish
as only 4 is driving - thats ok
I think WTD is still ok because the 9 hours has not been reached to warrant another break
Sorry but that wouldn’t comply with the WTD regulations as the break at 12:00 was only 15 minutes
Starting at 06:00 and finishing at 16:15 with 2 hours POA would still leave 8.25 hours working time, even after deducting the 15 minute break it leaves 8.00 hours working time which legally requires a total of 30 minute break/breaks.
- if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,
tachograph:
ROG:
cyman:
Can any one give me an answer with regard to POA and working breaks.
Example:
0600-0700 other work
0700-0900 driving
0900-1100 poa
1100-1200 other work
1200-1215 break +++++
1215-1415 driving
1415-1445 break - remove this break and finish 30 mins earlier at 1615
1445-1645 other work
Is this legal or do i not count the poa, then this would be a valid WTD break ++++ .So the 9 hour rule is not like the 6 hour one - reach 6 hours and have 15 mins or end shift is ok but you can’t do the same with the 9 hour rule - ie reach 9 hours and have 15 break or end shift - I’m confused now
4 hours - 15 break - 4 hours - finish
as only 4 is driving - thats ok
I think WTD is still ok because the 9 hours has not been reached to warrant another breakSorry but that wouldn’t comply with the WTD regulations as the break at 12:00 was only 15 minutes
Starting at 06:00 and finishing at 16:15 with 2 hours POA would still leave 8.25 hours working time, even after deducting the 15 minute break it leaves 8.00 hours working time which legally requires a total of 30 minute break/breaks.
- if your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes,
So the 9 hour rule is not like the 6 hour one - ie reach 6 hours and have 15 mins or end shift is ok but you can’t do the same with the 9 hour rule - ie reach 9 hours and have the second 15 break or end shift - I’m confused now 
ROG:
So the 9 hour rule is not like the 6 hour one - ie reach 6 hours and have 15 mins or end shift is ok but you can’t do the same with the 9 hour rule - ie reach 9 hours and have the second 15 break or end shift - I’m confused now
No, the rule says that if you work more than 6 hours but no more than 9 hours you should have break/breaks totalling 30 minutes and the break should interrupt the work time.
In other words if you work between 6 and 9 hours you should have breaks totalling at least 30 minutes but not right at the end of the shift.
tachograph:
ROG:
So the 9 hour rule is not like the 6 hour one - ie reach 6 hours and have 15 mins or end shift is ok but you can’t do the same with the 9 hour rule - ie reach 9 hours and have the second 15 break or end shift - I’m confused nowNo, the rule says that if you work more than 6 hours but no more than 9 hours you should have break/breaks totalling 30 minutes and the break should interrupt the work time.
In other words if you work between 6 and 9 hours you should have breaks totalling at least 30 minutes but not right at the end of the shift.
So if the shift was 6hrs & 15 mins you could do 6 hours have 15 mins break = work 15 mins but then must have another 15 mins just before ending shift - eh 
ROG:
So if the shift was 6hrs & 15 mins you could do 6 hours have 15 mins break = work 15 mins but then must have another 15 mins just before ending shift - eh
No, legally none of the breaks can be at the end of the shift, so legally if you were working for 6 hours and 15 minutes working time, you would need to have a total of 30 minutes break and then do some more work until the 6 and quarter hours were reached at the end of the shift.
Not sure I’d want to hang about for the sake of 15 minutes though
tachograph:
ROG:
So if the shift was 6hrs & 15 mins you could do 6 hours have 15 mins break = work 15 mins but then must have another 15 mins just before ending shift - ehNo, legally none of the breaks can be at the end of the shift, so legally if you were working for 6 hours and 15 minutes working time, you would need to have a total of 30 minutes break and then do some more work until the 6 and quarter hours were reached at the end of the shift.
Not sure I’d want to hang about for the sake of 15 minutes though
OK, got it now but I still think it’s weird
[++++ .
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Starting at 06:00 and finishing at 16:15 with 2 hours POA would still leave 8.25 hours working time, even after deducting the 15 minute break it leaves 8.00 hours working time which legally requires a total of 30 minute break/breaks.
Thanks for the posts.
I was just trying to pin down how the POA would be counted or not counted.
So I understand that POA does not count/qualify as a break, nor other work.
So if I had an overall duty time of 15 hours ( other work/driving/breaks/poa ) and included a 2 hour POA, I wouldn’t be able to do another 1 or 2 hours other work. Because this would take me over what is allowed within a 24hr period (reduced daily rest).
Am I right in saying that when the average 48hr calculation is done then the POA is taken into account and deducted from the working week in question.
Sorry if this all sounds a little daft!!.
cyman:
Starting at 06:00 and finishing at 16:15 with 2 hours POA would still leave 8.25 hours working time, even after deducting the 15 minute break it leaves 8.00 hours working time which legally requires a total of 30 minute break/breaks.Thanks for the posts.
I was just trying to pin down how the POA would be counted or not counted.
So I understand that POA does not count/qualify as a break, nor other work.
So if I had an overall duty time of 15 hours ( other work/driving/breaks/poa ) and included a 2 hour POA, I wouldn’t be able to do another 1 or 2 hours other work. Because this would take me over what is allowed within a 24hr period (reduced daily rest).
Am I right in saying that when the average 48hr calculation is done then the POA is taken into account and deducted from the working week in question.
Sorry if this all sounds a little daft!!.
POA, REST & BREAKS do not count towards the average 48 hours - hope that helps 
PS - no such thing as daft questions - only daft answers
cyman:
So if I had an overall duty time of 15 hours ( other work/driving/breaks/poa ) and included a 2 hour POA, I wouldn’t be able to do another 1 or 2 hours other work. Because this would take me over what is allowed within a 24hr period (reduced daily rest).
That’s correct, the important thing to remember is the daily rest period fitting into the 24 hour period, but you obviously understand that
cyman:
Am I right in saying that when the average 48hr calculation is done then the POA is taken into account and deducted from the working week in question.
Sorry if this all sounds a little daft!!.
As ROG has already said POA and breaks/rest don’t count towards the 48 hour average week.
Thanks Rog,
Just to clear this up for me. When working out my overall daily hours on that day, I should include POA with my other modes of work/breaks.
But exclude POA and breaks when doing the weekly average.
Cheers !!!
Just been thinking, lets say I drove up the road for 10 minutes then broke down ( other work ).
My transport manager told me to wait for recovery and I would have to wait a very long time, so he told me to POA this time……5 hours and 51 minutes later the recovery truck turns up. Now I’m on other work.
Should I have taken a 15 minute break before the 6 hours ‘duty time’ had arrived or do I say that the POA does not count, and take the 15 minutes (minimum) later.
Sorry to ask such dull questions, but someone is bound to ask me!
cyman:
Just been thinking, lets say I drove up the road for 10 minutes then broke down ( other work ).
My transport manager told me to wait for recovery and I would have to wait a very long time, so he told me to POA this time……5 hours and 51 minutes later the recovery truck turns up. Now I’m on other work.
Should I have taken a 15 minute break before the 6 hours ‘duty time’ had arrived or do I say that the POA does not count, and take the 15 minutes (minimum) later.
Sorry to ask such dull questions, but someone is bound to ask me!
‘duty time’ does not include POA REST or BREAKS
BUT
as tachograph pointed out - you must have/show a minimum of a 9 hour block of rest within every 24
If you had used 3 complete uninterrupted hours of that 5 hour POA as rest, then you could have a 9 hour and it would NOT be counted as a reduced daily rest - it would count as an 11 daily rest - the 3 must be done before the 9.
cyman:
Just been thinking, lets say I drove up the road for 10 minutes then broke down ( other work ).
My transport manager told me to wait for recovery and I would have to wait a very long time, so he told me to POA this time……5 hours and 51 minutes later the recovery truck turns up. Now I’m on other work.
Should I have taken a 15 minute break before the 6 hours ‘duty time’ had arrived or do I say that the POA does not count, and take the 15 minutes (minimum) later.
Sorry to ask such dull questions, but someone is bound to ask me!
Legally you can only use POA if you know in advance how long you’ll be waiting, apart from that the rule is that you should have a break before working more than 6 consecutive hours, when you’re on POA you’re not working so the 6 hours for the 6 hour rule would begin after the POA has ended.
No problem with the questions but why is someone bound to ask you ?
tachograph:
No problem with the questions but why is someone bound to ask you ?
Because someone always does.
Chatting with an old workmate on the boat, Sunday night, a job I had done came up in the conversation and the hours I had worked to get that job done where mentioned. I almost spilt my beer, when someone else in the group informed me that doing two days with 10 hours driving, back to back, was illegal.
I used this opportunity to enquire if it was also illegal to have two 9 hour rests back to back (because I’d done that on the trip we were chatting about too). I was so busy laughing I missed his reply though 