The name planner is used more and more for a reason and it is recognised in the legislation.
Article 10
2. A transport undertaking shall organise the work of
drivers referred to in paragraph 1 in such a way that the
drivers are able to comply with Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85
and Chapter II of this Regulation. The transport undertaking
shall properly instruct the driver and shall make regular
checks to ensure that Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 and
Chapter II of this Regulation are complied with.
Part of the reason this has come into being is that the old school driver was used to planning his own day, he only needed 3 pieces of information. Load details, address and delivery time. From that he was able to decide on which cafe he would eat at.
Modern technology has given the transport office more tools to be able to run an efficient business. Route planning, up to date traffic reports and the ability to contact the driver 24/7.
It isn’t my cup of tea either and the reason why I prefer international work, but if a haulage company has 20 loads to move in that day or week, they have to control the drivers somewhat and monitor their performance.
Most of the time I would stop at a shop or garage on the way into a drop, grab whatever to eat, a drink and a magazine and take my break whilst tipping. perfectly legally. It also gave me chance to work out exactly how much driving time I had left for that phone call. I am tipped. “Right, so how much driving time have you left?”
AlexWignall:
A planner should not try to plan a drivers breaks around estimated waiting time at customers.
Any driver with half a brain cell could simply move the truck every fourteen or twenty nine minutes and insist the customer instructed him to do so.It’s not beyond a decent planner or TM to develop a fair and professional relationship with their drivers and simply ask them to take a break if they have been and will be waiting a long time at a customer…
I can’t grade managers and planners from A to C, all I know are good ones and bad ones.
Wellington said (I admit that I have used this quote before)
“…there is no such thing as a bad soldier, only bad officers…”
W
they could,but they places they are being asked to take a break at,they have to hand there keys in…they can sit in the cab or go & use the canteen,keys are then given back when vehicle tipped…if there are no facilities or the vehicle is not on a loading bay being tipped then there not being asked to take a break,if they want to take a break while being tipped,thats their choice,it’s only at a few customer sites,where we know they will be there for at least an hour,that they are being asked to make use of the time & to use it as a break…this helps to keep the hours down for the working time directive & also,they are back sooner for a 2’nd run when there a deliveries that have an early pm booking time…
jrl driver:
when planning a delivery,can a driver be asked to take a break while being unloaded on a bay…i always have done,but just not sure if a driver can be told to take a 45 min break when on a bay for about an hour.
reason is,we deliver to a firm in the midlands,about 2 1/4hrs from us.
there on a bay with a back door tip for an hour,but they only put it on break for 30 mins,even though there not required or allowed in the back of the trailer while it’s being tipped,they then leave & on the way back take a 30 min break to make sure they can get back,so i see no reason why they can’t take a 45 min break to enable them to get back to the yard for their 2’nd run in 1 hit,thats what i did when i was doing the same run…
there paid through their breaks so don’t lose out financially…
would appreciate any advice form TM’s who have this sort of issue
thanks
John
this is what is written on the bottom of one of our procedure sheets
the drivers are encouraged to take there breaks whilst the unloading is taking place as the drivers have full use of the stores facilities
i think thats quite a reasonable request and written in a reasonable way i.e the word ENCOURAGED is used,not YOU WILL have a break on a bay,ive no problem having a break on a bay if i can get something proper to eat and use toilet,but i cant survive on rank coffeee out of filthy coffee machines and packets of crisps whilst doing a 15 hr shift every day,im as helpfull as they come,if i can get truck back +load a.s.a.p i will,but even i have to pull over for 10/15 mins to grap a tea/and something decent to eat,its about working together,no need to pull over for 45 after having 3 hrs on a bay, but 10/15 mins maybe.
Silver_Surfer:
Sort of fair enough driver deciding where to take his break if you aren’t getting paid your breaks although in this case they are.
I’ve always paid my drivers their breaks and wouldn’t take a job on if I couldn’t afford to pay the driver for their break, attitude of a driver/boss man I suppose. Use to wind me up when I was by the hour.
My attitude too. Always paid from the moment the Wagon started till it stopped. Plus bonus.
AlexWignall:
A planner should not try to plan a drivers breaks around estimated waiting time at customers.
Any driver with half a brain cell could simply move the truck every fourteen or twenty nine minutes and insist the customer instructed him to do so.It’s not beyond a decent planner or TM to develop a fair and professional relationship with their drivers and simply ask them to take a break if they have been and will be waiting a long time at a customer…
I can’t grade managers and planners from A to C, all I know are good ones and bad ones.
Wellington said (I admit that I have used this quote before)
“…there is no such thing as a bad soldier, only bad officers…”
W
they could,but they places they are being asked to take a break at,they have to hand there keys in…they can sit in the cab or go & use the canteen,keys are then given back when vehicle tipped…if there are no facilities or the vehicle is not on a loading bay being tipped then there not being asked to take a break,if they want to take a break while being tipped,thats their choice,it’s only at a few customer sites,where we know they will be there for at least an hour,that they are being asked to make use of the time & to use it as a break…this helps to keep the hours down for the working time directive & also,they are back sooner for a 2’nd run when there a deliveries that have an early pm booking time…
Okay what if your driver wants to be awkward?
Our half brain celled equiped friend could reverse onto a bay, select Other Work as he traipses to the booking office and back to hand his keys in and then select break.
He could burn thirty minutes of your time like that and repeat the process when he gets a green light and there would be nothing you could do about it.
The point of my post still stands, it really is much better if managers and drivers work together as a team.
Silver_Surfer:
Sort of fair enough driver deciding where to take his break if you aren’t getting paid your breaks although in this case they are.
I’ve always paid my drivers their breaks and wouldn’t take a job on if I couldn’t afford to pay the driver for their break, attitude of a driver/boss man I suppose. Use to wind me up when I was by the hour.
My attitude too. Always paid from the moment the Wagon started till it stopped. Plus bonus.
When my old gaffer took me on, he said that he would deduct 45 minutes off my daily total for a break, meaning it would be unpaid. He said that it was because he expected me to take a full break for my lunch and take the time to chill out, rather than taking my breaks whilst tipping and not actually stopping at any point in the day.
On the flip side, we got paid a bonus of £5 a drop after the 4th drop of the day. So the two kind of worked against each other.
On the plus side, on days with lots of drops you crack on and take a break whilst tipping. On the straight hit jobs you stopped for a 45 minute break and a nice brew somewhere.
I would have driven to the moon for him as he was a top bloke who would never ask you to do something he wasnt prepared to do himself.
In the situation the OP wrote about, I would take a 45 minute break whilst tipping without even asking.
jrl driver:
this helps to keep the hours down for the working time directive & also,they are back sooner for a 2’nd run when there a deliveries that have an early pm booking time…
i knew you would do it in the end, this has nothing to do with wtd as it doesnt exist anymore and is now known as working time… no directive in the title.
lets face facts you just want them back sooner for their second run.
ive met people like you before, the jobs going smoothly as it is and you’ve come on board and are trying to make a name for yourself at the cost of the drivers.
suppose the canteen at the delivery is crap and there is a nice food place 1/2hr back to the yard, driver then fancies his dinner at the nice cafe rather than the slope at the canteen.
also defination of a break the " driver can freely dispose of his time as wishes " that dose’nt say he must take it on a bay cos he can have a wander round the yard and there’s a canteen present. if he " wishes " to park in a layby and jog up and down on the spot thats his way of " freely disposing of his time ".
btw i think im a driver " b " i try my best but everyday i learn a bit more.
jessicas dad:
suppose the canteen at the delivery is crap and there is a nice food place 1/2hr back to the yard, driver then fancies his dinner at the nice cafe rather than the slope at the canteen.
Your employer is well within his rights to tell you where and when to take your break, that is the fact of the matter, no ifs or buts. The driver might want to take it somewhere else or at another time, but thats tough luck for him.
jessicas dad:
also defination of a break the " driver can freely dispose of his time as wishes " that dose’nt say he must take it on a bay cos he can have a wander round the yard and there’s a canteen present. if he " wishes " to park in a layby and jog up and down on the spot thats his way of " freely disposing of his time ".
The rules say nothing of the sort.
jessicas dad:
btw i think im a driver " b " i try my best but everyday i learn a bit more.
That’s your opinion. But at least one of your former employers puts you VERY firmly in the ‘C’ category, but I won’t say any more in order to protect the innocent.
jessicas dad:
suppose the canteen at the delivery is crap and there is a nice food place 1/2hr back to the yard, driver then fancies his dinner at the nice cafe rather than the slope at the canteen.
Your employer is well within his rights to tell you where and when to take your break, that is the fact of the matter, no ifs or buts. The driver might want to take it somewhere else or at another time, but thats tough luck for him.
jessicas dad:
also defination of a break the " driver can freely dispose of his time as wishes " that dose’nt say he must take it on a bay cos he can have a wander round the yard and there’s a canteen present. if he " wishes " to park in a layby and jog up and down on the spot thats his way of " freely disposing of his time ".
The rules say nothing of the sort.
jessicas dad:
btw i think im a driver " b " i try my best but everyday i learn a bit more.
That’s your opinion. But at least one of your former employers puts you VERY firmly in the ‘C’ category, but I won’t say any more in order to protect the innocent.
On a serious note as some of you may know I’m new to general haulage and as I work for my self it’s in my interest to keep going and to use time on a bay as break. But it sort of makes the job ■■■■ as when I worked in tipping as load and tip times were fast you stopped for a break at a cafe and got away from the truck and it made the jOb more enjoyable not the solitary rat race haulage seems to be now.
jessicas dad:
suppose the canteen at the delivery is crap and there is a nice food place 1/2hr back to the yard, driver then fancies his dinner at the nice cafe rather than the slope at the canteen.
Your employer is well within his rights to tell you where and when to take your break, that is the fact of the matter, no ifs or buts. The driver might want to take it somewhere else or at another time, but thats tough luck for him.
jessicas dad:
also defination of a break the " driver can freely dispose of his time as wishes " that dose’nt say he must take it on a bay cos he can have a wander round the yard and there’s a canteen present. if he " wishes " to park in a layby and jog up and down on the spot thats his way of " freely disposing of his time ".
The rules say nothing of the sort.
jessicas dad:
btw i think im a driver " b " i try my best but everyday i learn a bit more.
That’s your opinion. But at least one of your former employers puts you VERY firmly in the ‘C’ category, but I won’t say any more in order to protect the innocent.
and i’ll give you a clue, it wasn’t me
With some of my former employers I’m surprised I made it that high. But then not all off my former employers were worth anymore than a " d " driver so they proberley did quite well out of me.
This disposing of time thing is slowly rising to the top of the drivers myth book, it is slightly above the pink chalk and size of the steering wheel now.
Wheel Nut:
This disposing of time thing is slowly rising to the top of the drivers myth book, it is slightly above the pink chalk and size of the steering wheel now.
fair enough malc, but the problem im seeing with the poster and some of his other threads is he is going alienate his drivers. now i would have thought man management would try to keep his drivers onside, we had this at freightliner with drivers going in the office as planners and suddenly turning into right company men trying to enforce this that and the next thing then finding they cant hack and coming back on the road thinking they can be your best mate again. it doesn’t work like that.
now if the driver wants to stop for a cup of coffee on his way back let him, that’s one of the perks of being a lorry driver once your out of the yard you don’t have people on your back all time and in a sense your your own boss. now jrl driver has gone in the office and is trying to fix something that doesn’t need fixing.
jrl driver:
when planning a delivery,can a driver be asked to take a break while being unloaded on a bay…i always have done,but just not sure if a driver can be told to take a 45 min break when on a bay for about an hour.
reason is,we deliver to a firm in the midlands,about 2 1/4hrs from us.
there on a bay with a back door tip for an hour,but they only put it on break for 30 mins,even though there not required or allowed in the back of the trailer while it’s being tipped,they then leave & on the way back take a 30 min break to make sure they can get back,so i see no reason why they can’t take a 45 min break to enable them to get back to the yard for their 2’nd run in 1 hit,thats what i did when i was doing the same run…
there paid through their breaks so don’t lose out financially…
My thoughts …
Is there a cafe on the route and that second 30 mins allows them to have brekky?
If there is no particular reason for the second 30 apart from the lack of a 45 which is easily/legally possible at the first tip then perhaps explaining the second run is likely to be cancelled by the client if not done on time and that in turn would mean shorter duty times for the drivers = less wages!!
That does depend on what employment contract you have with the drivers such as guaranteeing a 40 hour week etc
That’s the thing been a driver I have always worked under the pretence I won’t take the ■■■■ il do the job as quick as possible but if I need to stop I will but keep it to the minimum.
But the amount of drivers I’ve known who take the ■■■■ ruin it for everybody else. In tipping I knew drivers who would say I’m only doing x amount of loads out of there where I always went with the il do as many as I can some days you might do an extra one over what you think is possible others you might drop a load.
kr79:
That’s the thing been a driver I have always worked under the pretence I won’t take the ■■■■ il do the job as quick as possible but if I need to stop I will but keep it to the minimum.
But the amount of drivers I’ve known who take the ■■■■ ruin it for everybody else.
yes exactly my attitude, when i was at freightliner i worked with the biggest bunch of workshy tossers available, in fact Leeds drivers are legendary throughout the company as being so lazy and difficult although i wasn’t like that i was inevitably tarred with the same brush. it got so bad in the end that i left.
kr79:
That’s the thing been a driver I have always worked under the pretence I won’t take the ■■■■ il do the job as quick as possible but if I need to stop I will but keep it to the minimum.
But the amount of drivers I’ve known who take the ■■■■ ruin it for everybody else.
yes exactly my attitude, when i was at freightliner i worked with the biggest bunch of workshy tossers available, in fact Leeds drivers are legendary throughout the company as being so lazy and difficult although i wasn’t like that i was inevitably tarred with the same brush. it got so bad in the end that i left.
Point taken about the earlier post, and I agree with you about Freightliner, even the office cat was on a work to rule
i once had a driver that had been on a bay for 3 1/2 hours at the cold store just north of Grantham on the A1, behind the Texaco garage
with being on containers, the driver is not allowed in the back, so, had basically spent 3 1/2 hours in the bunk
when he eventually left the cold store, he was taking the empty reefer box to Thamesport in Kent, he stopped at Colsterworth truckstop for another 1 1/4 hours for his lunch
for some reason, he couldn’t understand why i hit the roof
fair enough, if he had not got any food with him, although, he was tramping and away all week, so, had plenty in his cab, i would not have had a problem if he had stopped and grabbed a quick sandwich, then carried on, but to stop for nearly twice his legal required break, in my opinion was really taking the ■■■■
his reasoning for his lengthy break was ‘well, i didn’t rush’
shuttlespanker:
i once had a driver that had been on a bay for 3 1/2 hours at the cold store just north of Grantham on the A1, behind the Texaco garage
with being on containers, the driver is not allowed in the back, so, had basically spent 3 1/2 hours in the bunk
when he eventually left the cold store, he was taking the empty reefer box to Thamesport in Kent, he stopped at Colsterworth truckstop for another 1 1/4 hours for his lunch
for some reason, he couldn’t understand why i hit the roof
fair enough, if he had not got any food with him, although, he was tramping and away all week, so, had plenty in his cab, i would not have had a problem if he had stopped and grabbed a quick sandwich, then carried on, but to stop for nearly twice his legal required break, in my opinion was really taking the ■■■■
his reasoning for his lengthy break was ‘well, i didn’t rush’
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