kr79:
Ias it states a break is where the driver can dispose of there time as they wish.
That’s daily rest, not a break requirement 
kr79:
I think if you follow it to the letter of the law the driver may be within there rights to stop as it states a break is where the driver can dispose of there time as they wish.
In the real world I grab a sandwich or have food in the truck to use such situations as a break but I think you could come unstuck if you have a bloddy minded driver.
You really should not have written that rubbish, or the wrath of TNUK will fall on this place 
I’m beginning to think this is a women’s institute forum anyway. Looked on the main page and if it ain’t about Stobarts it’s about would you grass someone up for having no road tax. 
Denis F:
jrl driver:
when planning a delivery,can a driver be asked to take a break while being unloaded on a bay…i always have done,but just not sure if a driver can be told to take a 45 min break when on a bay for about an hour.
reason is,we deliver to a firm in the midlands,about 2 1/4hrs from us.
there on a bay with a back door tip for an hour,but they only put it on break for 30 mins,even though there not required or allowed in the back of the trailer while it’s being tipped,they then leave & on the way back take a 30 min break to make sure they can get back,so i see no reason why they can’t take a 45 min break to enable them to get back to the yard for their 2’nd run in 1 hit,thats what i did when i was doing the same run…
there paid through their breaks so don’t lose out financially…would appreciate any advice form TM’s who have this sort of issue
thanks
John
do they have access to canteen and toilet facilities while the lorry is being unloaded ?
do they have access to toilet and canteen facilities in virtually every layby in the country?
this is where your argument falls down a bit Denis, or, are you saying that drivers are not allowed to have their breaks in layby’s as there are no facilities in them?
kr79:
I’m beginning to think this is a women’s institute forum anyway. Looked on the main page and if it ain’t about Stobarts it’s about would you grass someone up for having no road tax.
you should fit right in then Kev, being a SSSD 
Rather that than be a Northerner. Hadrian should have built that wall at Hemel Hempstead to keep all you jocks out 
Denis F:
jrl driver:
when planning a delivery,can a driver be asked to take a break while being unloaded on a bay…i always have done,but just not sure if a driver can be told to take a 45 min break when on a bay for about an hour.
reason is,we deliver to a firm in the midlands,about 2 1/4hrs from us.
there on a bay with a back door tip for an hour,but they only put it on break for 30 mins,even though there not required or allowed in the back of the trailer while it’s being tipped,they then leave & on the way back take a 30 min break to make sure they can get back,so i see no reason why they can’t take a 45 min break to enable them to get back to the yard for their 2’nd run in 1 hit,thats what i did when i was doing the same run…
there paid through their breaks so don’t lose out financially…would appreciate any advice form TM’s who have this sort of issue
thanks
John
do they have access to canteen and toilet facilities while the lorry is being unloaded ?
yes,at the drops there being asked to take a break there are full canteen facilites available to them & they do make use of them…
Driver should use that as a break then.
Gogan:
shuttlespanker:
the worst thing about running a haulage company is the drivers!!!^^ This!
The rest of it is childsplay. But it’s primarily the thick, knuckle-dragging, stuck in the 80’s, lazy, bone idle, filled with self-importance and a misguided sense of their own ability ■■■■■ trumpet behind the wheel that make the week seem that much longer.
There are, in my experience, three types of driver:
Driver ‘A’ genuinely knows the job, will do what it takes to get the job done, doesn’t drag the job out and knows his effort is appreciated without all the pathetic patting of the back and arse licking that most drivers crave. You only hear from him when the job is done and he’s on the way home, or vary rarely when he hits a problem he can’t solve himself or needs your OK to carry out his solution. Driver ‘A’ rightly expects a higher wage than the average steering wheel monkey, but he is worth it.
Driver ‘B’ doesn’t know it all and indeed may have no experience whatsoever, but he will follow instruction and offer what assistance he can to get the job done. He will become a ‘Driver A’ in due course, as he accepts that he doesn’t know it all but is happy to learn as he goes along and do what he’s told in the meantime.
Driver ‘C’ is a bit of a prick. He pretends he’s enthusiastic at the interview, but as soon as he gets on the job he starts to find fault with everything. As soon as he hits a problem he gets straight on the phone and starts throwing the toys out the pram, making no effort to solve any issues and expecting the rest of the world to wipe his arse for him. When he doesn’t get his own way he will complain (often on a public forum) that his [zb] of a boss actually expects him to earn his wages, and that he doesn’t think he should be forced to do anything other than attend behind the steering wheel. Driver ‘C’ inevitably values himself very highly, and regardless of what wages/salary he is offered will inevitably claim (more often that not privately
Sadly drivers of the calibre of ‘A’ and ‘B’ are in short supply, and will generally be found through word of mouth and can often afford to choose who they work for. ‘Driver C’ is very common, but is easily spotted, easily moved on, and there are no shortage of them to use until you find an ‘A’ or ‘B’.
on the head, nail.
Sunnydevon:
You pay the wages, you make the rules, just tell him what you want him to do.Hope this helps.
Agreed, if they don’t like it, there’s the door. If you’re paying decent money and don’t have a driver shortage that is.
Strictly speaking it’s a bit of a grey area legally. I think if you or the driver tells the customer in advance that they are not touching the wagon for 45 minutes under any circumstances even if required to because they are “on break” then your golden but some pedants might say that they may be asked to lift a finger by the customer whilst they’re being tipped.
Gogan:
shuttlespanker:
the worst thing about running a haulage company is the drivers!!!^^ This!
The rest of it is childsplay. But it’s primarily the thick, knuckle-dragging, stuck in the 80’s, lazy, bone idle, filled with self-importance and a misguided sense of their own ability ■■■■■ trumpet behind the wheel that make the week seem that much longer.
There are, in my experience, three types of driver:
Driver ‘A’ genuinely knows the job, will do what it takes to get the job done, doesn’t drag the job out and knows his effort is appreciated without all the pathetic patting of the back and arse licking that most drivers crave. You only hear from him when the job is done and he’s on the way home, or vary rarely when he hits a problem he can’t solve himself or needs your OK to carry out his solution. Driver ‘A’ rightly expects a higher wage than the average steering wheel monkey, but he is worth it.
Driver ‘B’ doesn’t know it all and indeed may have no experience whatsoever, but he will follow instruction and offer what assistance he can to get the job done. He will become a ‘Driver A’ in due course, as he accepts that he doesn’t know it all but is happy to learn as he goes along and do what he’s told in the meantime.
Driver ‘C’ is a bit of a prick. He pretends he’s enthusiastic at the interview, but as soon as he gets on the job he starts to find fault with everything. As soon as he hits a problem he gets straight on the phone and starts throwing the toys out the pram, making no effort to solve any issues and expecting the rest of the world to wipe his arse for him. When he doesn’t get his own way he will complain (often on a public forum) that his [zb] of a boss actually expects him to earn his wages, and that he doesn’t think he should be forced to do anything other than attend behind the steering wheel. Driver ‘C’ inevitably values himself very highly, and regardless of what wages/salary he is offered will inevitably claim (more often that not privately
Sadly drivers of the calibre of ‘A’ and ‘B’ are in short supply, and will generally be found through word of mouth and can often afford to choose who they work for. ‘Driver C’ is very common, but is easily spotted, easily moved on, and there are no shortage of them to use until you find an ‘A’ or ‘B’.
Exactly the same thing when I worked as a controller in a minicab firm!!
Most of the drivers made the job harder than it was.
However, if you work for a big company, you soon become just a number.
Gogan:
shuttlespanker:
the worst thing about running a haulage company is the drivers!!!^^ This!
The rest of it is childsplay. But it’s primarily the thick, knuckle-dragging, stuck in the 80’s, lazy, bone idle, filled with self-importance and a misguided sense of their own ability ■■■■■ trumpet behind the wheel that make the week seem that much longer.
There are, in my experience, three types of driver:
Driver ‘A’ genuinely knows the job, will do what it takes to get the job done, doesn’t drag the job out and knows his effort is appreciated without all the pathetic patting of the back and arse licking that most drivers crave. You only hear from him when the job is done and he’s on the way home, or vary rarely when he hits a problem he can’t solve himself or needs your OK to carry out his solution. Driver ‘A’ rightly expects a higher wage than the average steering wheel monkey, but he is worth it.
Driver ‘B’ doesn’t know it all and indeed may have no experience whatsoever, but he will follow instruction and offer what assistance he can to get the job done. He will become a ‘Driver A’ in due course, as he accepts that he doesn’t know it all but is happy to learn as he goes along and do what he’s told in the meantime.
Driver ‘C’ is a bit of a prick. He pretends he’s enthusiastic at the interview, but as soon as he gets on the job he starts to find fault with everything. As soon as he hits a problem he gets straight on the phone and starts throwing the toys out the pram, making no effort to solve any issues and expecting the rest of the world to wipe his arse for him. When he doesn’t get his own way he will complain (often on a public forum) that his [zb] of a boss actually expects him to earn his wages, and that he doesn’t think he should be forced to do anything other than attend behind the steering wheel. Driver ‘C’ inevitably values himself very highly, and regardless of what wages/salary he is offered will inevitably claim (more often that not privately
Sadly drivers of the calibre of ‘A’ and ‘B’ are in short supply, and will generally be found through word of mouth and can often afford to choose who they work for. ‘Driver C’ is very common, but is easily spotted, easily moved on, and there are no shortage of them to use until you find an ‘A’ or ‘B’.
Bang on with that gogan, sad state of affairs but very ■■■■■■■ true. 
kr79:
I think if you follow it to the letter of the law the driver may be within there rights to stop as it states a break is where the driver can dispose of there time as they wish.
In the real world I grab a sandwich or have food in the truck to use such situations as a break but I think you could come unstuck if you have a bloddy minded driver.
I’ll think you’ll find that is the definition of a rest period, a break period is just defined as something like a period of time for recuperation were the driver is not allowed to drive or carry out any other work.
Sorry kr79 somebody’s already pointed this out to you. Should really read the whole thread first.
shuttlespanker:
Denis F:
jrl driver:
when planning a delivery,can a driver be asked to take a break while being unloaded on a bay…i always have done,but just not sure if a driver can be told to take a 45 min break when on a bay for about an hour.
reason is,we deliver to a firm in the midlands,about 2 1/4hrs from us.
there on a bay with a back door tip for an hour,but they only put it on break for 30 mins,even though there not required or allowed in the back of the trailer while it’s being tipped,they then leave & on the way back take a 30 min break to make sure they can get back,so i see no reason why they can’t take a 45 min break to enable them to get back to the yard for their 2’nd run in 1 hit,thats what i did when i was doing the same run…
there paid through their breaks so don’t lose out financially…would appreciate any advice form TM’s who have this sort of issue
thanks
John
do they have access to canteen and toilet facilities while the lorry is being unloaded ?
do they have access to toilet and canteen facilities in virtually every layby in the country?
this is where your argument falls down a bit Denis, or, are you saying that drivers are not allowed to have their breaks in layby’s as there are no facilities in them?
It’s a drivers choice to stop in a layby , and something I do , but in the op’s case he’s asking the drivers to take a break at a certain place, as they have facilities and are not unloading then it’s a fair ask! If they had no facilities then it would be an unreasonable ask IMHO
jrl driver:
when planning a delivery,can a driver be asked to take a break while being unloaded on a bay…i always have done,but just not sure if a driver can be told to take a 45 min break when on a bay for about an hour.
reason is,we deliver to a firm in the midlands,about 2 1/4hrs from us.
there on a bay with a back door tip for an hour,but they only put it on break for 30 mins,even though there not required or allowed in the back of the trailer while it’s being tipped,they then leave & on the way back take a 30 min break to make sure they can get back,so i see no reason why they can’t take a 45 min break to enable them to get back to the yard for their 2’nd run in 1 hit,thats what i did when i was doing the same run…
there paid through their breaks so don’t lose out financially…would appreciate any advice form TM’s who have this sort of issue
thanks
John
As a driver, if you pay me for my breaks then you can tell me when to take them, on the other hand if you don’t then I choose when I take them. Simple as that
thanks for all the comments & feedback,it’s appreciated…i should have put a bit more info in the original post as well…
more often than not when drivers return to base from their 1’st run,they have to wait to be loaded,this can be anything from 20 mins to 1 hour if the packaging is still being made…so most of them have time to go for a brew etc & take another break of say,at least 30 mins,while away from their vehicle…this is part of the reason why the firm would like them to take a 45min break on the loading dock at the 1’st drop,because at the moment they take 30 mins there,then on way back have to stop for another 30 mins as they run out of driving time,but then when they return to base & have to wait to be loaded,they can have another break of at least 30 mins…
there is no issue with them taking 2x30 min breaks when it is needed,but when they can take a 45 on site & be back in 1 go,that’s 30mins+ per driver per day that can be taken at base while being loaded instead of stopping in the services etc it soon mounts up…
kr79:
I think if you follow it to the letter of the law the driver may be within there rights to stop as it states a break is where the driver can dispose of there time as they wish.
In the real world I grab a sandwich or have food in the truck to use such situations as a break but I think you could come unstuck if you have a bloddy minded driver.
Unfortunately for a BREAK a driver does NOT need to be able to dispose of his time as he wishes.
A BREAK is simply no driving, no work and able to use the time exlusively to recuperate. A BREAK may also be interrupted as long as the break requirements are still met later. The rules for a BREAK do not mention free to dispose, toilets, food, facilities etc. i come across so many drivers that argue they cannot take a break if the vehicle is on a bay being unloaded - they are wrong (unless they are doing the unloading)
A bloody minded driver can moan all he wants. The company is within its rights to tell him where and when he will take his break - just like they would for a factory worker. I would expect a driver to actually do what is resonable. If not working or driving, has access to suitable facilities whilst the vehicle is tipped - record a break. later on if he’s peckish or needs a toilet stop - fine - 15 maybe 20 minutes is reasonable. Afterall we don’t all need food or toilet at the same time the vehicle is being tipped.
What actually happens where I work - 2 or 3 hours at Tesco - driver 15 minutes and stop for an hour. it is a complete p**s take really and it really wears me down dealing with these jobs worth types. In my opinion they are the ones have ruined the job for others and this is why drivers are so under valued and the pay is crap. They forced the employers hand and cost so many hours out of a working day it becomes difficult to get the vehicle to earn its keep.
I have to say the DRIVER A, B & C post is completely spot on. I DARE someone to post it in the general drivers bit
As a DCPC Trainer I usually have more than my fare share of arguments with drivers when I tell them they CAN take a break at Tesco etc. I meet every type A, B & C driver and the attitudes of some … well i wouldn’t employ them. Mind you - these discussion make the 7 hours pass quickly
Pete
shep532:
In my opinion they are the ones have ruined the job for others and this is why drivers are so under valued and the pay is crap. They forced the employers hand and cost so many hours out of a working day it becomes difficult to get the vehicle to earn its keep.
There were 8 (C) drivers at our place who achieved exactly that and they and their vehicles are no longer there.
It’s hard enough to compete against the giants in this industry without your drivers working against you.
All we have left is our in house work, our (now ex) drivers hung the job out so much that the rates didn’t cover the
extra expense.
They were warned that this would happen but seemed only interested in how much cash they could make for how little work.
Regards,
Nick.
Henrys cat:
jrl driver:
when planning a delivery,can a driver be asked to take a break while being unloaded on a bay…i always have done,but just not sure if a driver can be told to take a 45 min break when on a bay for about an hour.
reason is,we deliver to a firm in the midlands,about 2 1/4hrs from us.
there on a bay with a back door tip for an hour,but they only put it on break for 30 mins,even though there not required or allowed in the back of the trailer while it’s being tipped,they then leave & on the way back take a 30 min break to make sure they can get back,so i see no reason why they can’t take a 45 min break to enable them to get back to the yard for their 2’nd run in 1 hit,thats what i did when i was doing the same run…
there paid through their breaks so don’t lose out financially…would appreciate any advice form TM’s who have this sort of issue
thanks
John
As a driver, if you pay me for my breaks then you can tell me when to take them, on the other hand if you don’t then I choose when I take them. Simple as that
As an ex employer I would agree. TBH
A planner should not try to plan a drivers breaks around estimated waiting time at customers.
Any driver with half a brain cell could simply move the truck every fourteen or twenty nine minutes and insist the customer instructed him to do so.
It’s not beyond a decent planner or TM to develop a fair and professional relationship with their drivers and simply ask them to take a break if they have been and will be waiting a long time at a customer…
I can’t grade managers and planners from A to C, all I know are good ones and bad ones.
Wellington said (I admit that I have used this quote before)
“…there is no such thing as a bad soldier, only bad officers…”
W
Sort of fair enough driver deciding where to take his break if you aren’t getting paid your breaks although in this case they are.
I’ve always paid my drivers their breaks and wouldn’t take a job on if I couldn’t afford to pay the driver for their break, attitude of a driver/boss man I suppose. Use to wind me up when I was by the hour.