Personal use

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

OK this possibly should be in the safety and law thing im not sure.

Basically i live in Newark and my brother lives in Peterborough he drives a 7.5 tonner and he can borrow it to help me move house FREE OF CHARGE :slight_smile::):):):):slight_smile: nice one eh?.

The crunch is he has to drive from Peterborough to Newark on a Saturday Morning and drive back south again on the Sunday so how can he do it does he just fill a tacho in and put personale use on it?.

As it is for NO Hire or reward apart from a few pints on the Saturday night can we do this legally?.

P.S. all i have to do is put some diesel in it for him to go back with probably about ÂŁ20 it would cost me twice that to hire a luton van and put some diesel in it.

2

jammymutt:
Basically i live in Newark and my brother lives in Peterborough he drives a 7.5 tonner and he can borrow it to help me move house FREE OF CHARGE :slight_smile::):):):):slight_smile: nice one eh?.

Is business bad for him or is this another brother :question: :open_mouth:
Personal use and he doesn’t need a tacho it won’t effect his hours for the working week.
I thought you were moving a few doors away wouldn’t it be easier to carry your stuff?

3

Easy Jammy …

He can drive to you with a blank in, let you fill it in & job done :laughing:

JOKING - Honest (will have the lynch mob here :open_mouth: )

I’m not 100% but I think he can put it down as personal use, regardless of needing a tacho in or not, I would, if only to have something to account for the lost miles.

4

LT its another brother on eof the ones who WORKS for a living not the one who was on T.V. last night (BBC2 Tuesday nights 20:00) !!!.

Cheers TT i think i will tell him to put a blank in just in case.

LT i am moving about 1/4 of a mile i,ll let you know the date and you can come round with your sack barrow and move the washing machine for me :slight_smile::):):)…It will be far easier with a tonka truck as i,ll get it all in on one load;), with a Luton it would take 2/3 loads.

5

jammymutt:
Cheers TT i think i will tell him to put a blank in just in case.

put a card in and write " personal use " or “private use” where the name should go, it just makes it easier to account for the miles

I do that when I drive my daughters to horse things !!

6

not sure how you’d get away with that? it could excuse all sorts of naughtiness if you look at it that was - weekly rest is supposedly to ensure that driver is rested regardless of whether it’s hire and reward or not :confused:

too lazy to look it up so hopefully neil is sitting doing nothing in hegyshegyland and will be along soon with the definitive answer :question: :wink: :sunglasses:

7

jammymutt:
LT its another brother on eof the ones who WORKS for a living not the one who was on T.V. last night (BBC2 Tuesday nights 20:00) !!!.

That’s what I thought as I watched your other brother on tv last night. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
My wheelbarrow is occupied at the mo honey I’ve moved to yorkshire myself. :wink: :sunglasses: Good Luck with the new house.

8

jj72:
not sure how you’d get away with that? it could excuse all sorts of naughtiness if you look at it that was - weekly rest is supposedly to ensure that driver is rested regardless of whether it’s hire and reward or not :confused:

too lazy to look it up so hopefully neil is sitting doing nothing in hegyshegyland and will be along soon with the definitive answer :question: :wink: :sunglasses:

from GV262

22 WHEN ARE DRIVERS EXEMPT FROM THE EC RULES?
Drivers are exempt from the EC drivers’ hours rules and from the tachograph rules
(see following questions) when engaged in the following transport operations
anywhere in the European Community.

  • Vehicles used for non-commercial carriage of goods for personal use.

vosa.gov.uk/vosa/hgvpsvdrive … 'hours.htm

9

Fill out a chart as normal. (Simply to account for the mileage). Write on the back, “Personal Use (Helping brother move house)”

Oh, and let him buy his own beer otherwise that could be construed as payment. :laughing:

10

Denis:

  • Vehicles used for non-commercial carriage of goods for personal use.

Not argueing, and good luck to you Jammy, but how daft is that :question: :open_mouth:

If it’s so dangerous to drive on your official days’ rest, what difference does it make whether you are paid or not :question: :unamused:

Salut, David

11

Spardo:

Denis:

  • Vehicles used for non-commercial carriage of goods for personal use.

Not argueing, and good luck to you Jammy, but how daft is that :question: :open_mouth:

If it’s so dangerous to drive on your official days’ rest, what difference does it make whether you are paid or not :question: :unamused:

Salut, David

so technically if i run out of hours with an empty trailer,wasnt getting paid and drove the wagon straight back to my house ,replacing the diesel i used ,i wouldnt need to do a night out and could sleep in my own bed :question: :exclamation:

12

Spardo:

Denis:

  • Vehicles used for non-commercial carriage of goods for personal use.

Not argueing, and good luck to you Jammy, but how daft is that :question: :open_mouth:

If it’s so dangerous to drive on your official days’ rest, what difference does it make whether you are paid or not :question: :unamused:

Salut, David

Just the same as you can do a full week then spend the entire weekly rest driving you car thousands of miles.

It ‘could’ be used do cover dodgeyness, but if someone was doing it every weekend it would obviously look sus.

13

This is definately a grey area. I bet if you asked 6 different VOSA men, you’d get 6 different answers.

Trucks are often used at w/ends (& driven by drivers who drive them for a living) to take traction engines to rallies, stock cars to circuits, etc.

So, if i’m out of hours. Park up somewhere safe, drop the trailer, change cards to “private use” & drive 10 minutes up the road to get a meal & then back again, that’s ok then?

14

Krankee:
Oh, and let him buy his own beer otherwise that could be construed as payment. :laughing:

Dont mind if i quote you on that one do you?:):):):):):):).

Trucks are often used at w/ends (& driven by drivers who drive them for a living) to take traction engines to rallies, stock cars to circuits, etc.

Would most of them be getting prizes etc for showing their vehicles?, would that not count as “reward”.

15

Trucks are often used at w/ends (& driven by drivers who drive them for a living) to take traction engines to rallies, stock cars to circuits, etc.

Not really ‘work’ though is it.

If you had a genuine personal use for it then it’s something VOSA could check out. Like if you took a traction engine to a rally, they could check out if there was a rally and look for people who saw you there etc. :wink:

16

dennisw1:
Not really ‘work’ though is it.

No its not work but it IS reward if you get a prize, whether you could convince VOSa otherwise would be a difficult one.

17

No its not work but it IS reward if you get a prize, whether you could convince VOSa otherwise would be a difficult one.

If it ever came to it present it to VOSA this way?
If you get a prize, what are you being rewarded for? - It’s not for driving a wagon to the event, because if that were the case everyone who drove a wagon there would have to receive the same or similar prize. You are getting the prize for having the fastest, shiniest, loudest etc not how you got there.

18

A second thought that may be of more use for employed drivers who would do something like borrow a wagon to go to a show or racing regularly - if your employer is prepared to allow private use, get them to make a nominal charge to you. - Daft as sounds (& I don’t like giving money away!) if your employer charges you a £5 admin fee & shows it on your payslip as ‘Co. Vehicle - Private use’ then if it ever came to it, VOSA would have a harder time trying to suggest that you were being rewarded.

19

Or just show a reciept for the diesel you put in it :wink:
Doubt there are many employers who let you borrow a motor and pay for your diesel. If you’re paying for the fuel then it’s not for reward.

Good idea about getting them to invoice you though. :slight_smile:

20

jammymutt:
No its not work but it IS reward if you get a prize, whether you could convince VOSa otherwise would be a difficult one.

True, but one is not assured of a return for one’s efforts. Hire or Reward, by it’s very nature, assumes a pre-existing contractual agreement.

jj72:
weekly rest is supposedly to ensure that driver is rested regardless of whether it’s hire and reward or not :confused:

Agreed, but there is nothing in the regulations preventing you from flying off to New York, competing in a marathon, flying back again, and then commencing another weeks work. Just the flights would leave me a quacking wreck. As for running 26 miles, excuse me. I suddenly have the urge to go and lie down. :laughing:

Driveroneuk:
So, if I’m out of hours. Park up somewhere safe, drop the trailer, change cards to “private use” & drive 10 minutes up the road to get a meal & then back again, that’s ok then?

Rikki has previously made mention of doing precisely this when doing STGO work. From what I remember, although VOSA weren’t too happy, the matter wasn’t taken any further.

With regard to EU Regs, there is precious little Case Law in relation to Driver’s Hours. The sad fact is that is that, for financial reasons, most drivers, through lack of support from their companies or unions, simply ‘roll over’ and plead guilty, because it is the economically viable route to take. Court appearances tend to involve travel, overnight accommodation, adjournments, and loss of income, which, normally cannot be recovered. When one looks at any database of ‘Legal Precedents’ concerning EU Regs, then most feature Coach companies, who have breached the Regs because of the manner in which they operate. I can’t think of any Stated Case that originates from the prosecution of an ‘individual’, which in some ways is counter-productive, because it means that the legislation has not been ‘tested’ and virtually allows VOSA to write the ‘Rule Book’ as they think fit.